Micro 1030: I tell you what I'm doing | Mafia Wins!

[cowsloveSushirolls]

StD's probably my only null
hockey i am formally inviting you to ISO him with me later

[Save The Dragons]

1. HockeyFan

38 votes me without asking why i'm voting toxictaipan. i feel like town!hockey would be more curious while scum!hockey might be more jumpy.

94 what's opportunistic about a naked vote

96 koba is playing similar to their scumgame but you decide to vote ember later, why ember over koba? you switch to cows+ember sure, but what happened to your read on koba?

2. Galron

92 why did you say this

112 you have koba as town but you're wary because of meta, can you elaborate why you had them as town here at all? can you tell me what's changed?

What's your thoughts on toxic rn?

3. cowsloveSushirolls

5 not sure i like this post

32 i like this post

i actually like cows thought processes here.

4. DkKoba

i think koba is town

5. toxictaipan

73 why do you unvote koba?

137 why did you vote ember? and shade hockey?

6. Save The Dragons

that's me!

7. Enchant

Has said a whole lot of nothing

8. Emberbloom

the noise noise noise and yawn parts of her posts are scummy

i dunno how i feel



town

Galron
Koba
Cowslovesushirolls

Null
Enchant
Emberbloom

Scum
Hockey
Toxic

VOTE: Toxictaipan

[T3]

Votecount:

• Emberbloom (3): DkKoba, toxictaipan, HockeyFan
  Enchant (1): Galron
  toxictaipan (1): Save The Dragons
  DkKoba (1): Emberbloom

With 8 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-16 21:27:01).
I am in history class typing on my computer.

[Emberbloom]

Alright, I'm back. Yesterday was a personal day and I only had time to post once at work, and once when I got home. Anyway.

None of Koba's posting has shown they have a thought process. It's just reads and shit-stirring.

i didn't feel that way when they asked 166, which was why i answered it so readily. forcing me into a situation like that means that they're obv looking at me at a certain angle

it all feels really stubborn, which was something i disregarded in the first koba/ember argument but it's a recurring response to their pressure

Sure. I get how you see stubborn. Aside from the once-a-post reminder that Koba thinks I'm scum, the other thing that bugs me though is that their scenario also involves Hockey. And while I found a few posts that did look alright individually from Hockey, there's still weird vibes I'm getting from the two of them. More on that later.

But sure, it could be Koba trying to figure things out. Could also be Koba setting up "look, here's my Hockey townread from this post here" for later.

And the fact that Koba's approaching the game by implying that scum always strictly give reads and need to stick to them (thus the strategy from "town" Koba to "lock them into thoughts") is... false. At least on Day 1. If you're (general you're) scum that's needing to set up end-of-game mislims and need to watch how you're perceived, sure this logic tracks, but... trying to pigeonhole people into reads Day 1 is useless. The fact that this is where their head's at is weird to me.

I don't know if this makes better sense, but best way I can word it: the fact that they're trying to scumhunt by holding people to actions, instead of holding people to intentions, is what's bugging the crap outta me. They wanted your read on those slots to hold you to them later (208). Not to actually figure out your slot. Y'know?

i think it's more that their thought process isn't transparent
with that rephrased, i don't really see how this is alignment indicative. it gets even more NAI when koba's directly aware of it (109)

Have you considered that the person who claims they have an S tier scumgame with regards to their reactions being perceived as genuine, may be lying or has a motive to push scummy actions as "Not Alignment Indicative"? Koba themselves say in 241 that scum tend to hang out as "null reads". So as scum, trying to claim everything or most things you've done so far is "null at best"/NAI would be a good strategy, so no one gets too solid a read on you, yeah?

What is the town motivation to insist your actions are NAI, outside of this entire thing playing to your meta instead of your wincon?


One step further to connect some dots - as scum, couldn't it make sense to use that strategy of "make sure no one gets a solid read on you" in tandem with "locking people into thoughts"?

where i start to get tinfoily is when i iso you, look for my name and see that overall i'm null or arm's reach from a vote but you've only mentioned positive things from me in order to poke at koba, and offhandedly you'll say things like "i could understand the votes he received"
can i ask you directly what has pinged you?

I don't recall giving the impression you were close to a vote from me. So I'm gonna have to go back and look, only because I don't remember.


I think the best explanation I have is that I had no idea how to parse your "strike system" posting from early D1, as far as if it was alignment indicative or if it was even a genuine reaction test vs scum just talking to talk. I had vibes of "scum that stays friendly and active" early on, before I got into things with Koba.

This is kinda why you were one of the ones that I noted having to go back and reread; mostly to check the earlier stuff that gave me weird vibes. When I brought you up in my Koba case (198), I was reading posts from Koba directed at you and didn't necessarily take anything in from your slot concerning such; Koba could have been referring to any user, really, they just so happened to be referring to you.


You had good posts in 32 and 95. That's why I was like, I'll give you a pass for now - 95 showed your strike system had a plan, but I didn't know how to parse everything, so I noted you for rereading later.

When I answered STD about reads in 197, I said that

if I responded earlier

(around post 129), I would have said "I got odd pings from cows; I could understand the two votes he received." I looked over the posts between the two, and 142, 147, 163, 179, 188 - all show a consistent attempt at discussing and figuring out Hockey and toxic. All seems fine, genuine, and consistent.


So, I guess to give a comparison, maybe your early posting pinged me as active scum kinda how toxic's openers pinged you as lurker scum? Hence why I was like "meh, I get it" when you got two votes. I said you could be "big brain"-ing one of your posts because I already had a certain interaction on my mind (toxic and I both shared similar sentiments in 'posting with a plan' - so when the third person chimes in i.e. you, the gut reaction was basically "okay; calm down")... but maybe I was just being paranoid.


I'll still reread your earlygame but I don't expect to find any glaring issues so it won't be a suspenseful wait for an update there.

Back with more later.

[HockeyFan]

StD's probably my only null
hockey i am formally inviting you to ISO him with me later

1. HockeyFan

38 votes me without asking why i'm voting toxictaipan. i feel like town!hockey would be more curious while scum!hockey might be more jumpy.

94 what's opportunistic about a naked vote

96 koba is playing similar to their scumgame but you decide to vote ember later, why ember over koba? you switch to cows+ember sure, but what happened to your read on koba?

1. Lol. I didnt ask you because from past experience/games ive played with u I knew your answer was gonna be similar to "Thats where the wind taken me" and I cant really get much out of that SO i wanted to see your reaction to a silent vote.
2. The fact that it came in the middle of koba/toxic going back and forth
3. Oh, its still there dw, but I want cows more and I think Koba isnt a good d1 vote

@cows, I will ISO STD when i get home

[Galron]

actually let me rephrase that: why do you believe my play cammot be from town

Disagree with the premise. The noise you keep making about how good you are and how much your going to wreck people isn't helping my and it's not convincing. It's almost a trust me they're scum strategy. I need a little more. There's a little poe in the too, but my reads seem flooring, so that's just an aside.

[DkKoba]

Galron stop deflecting.
If i link you a sample of 5 normal games where i was town - can you identify this "casing" you're claiming im lacking?
(I know the answer to that- im just seeing if you'll lie)

[HockeyFan]

Alright ISO time for STD(for @cows)

If i had to make something out of 16, it would be town-leaning; felt natural

I however, do not like 39 and 49; seemed like an overblown reaction to a single vote on them

124, 127[post] [post]129 is sorta giving akward vibes. It also seems like filler(at least 127 does), 129 just looks like asking ember to give more content to get TR'D. STD could be paired with either Koba/Ember

136 is super ??? had 0 mention of cows's name in his iso until that point

Overall, STD has a high chance of flipping scum imho, dont really like his logs.

[toxictaipan]

5. toxictaipan

73 why do you unvote koba?

137 why did you vote ember? and shade hockey?

1. I felt like I pretty well summarized that in the post. I came in hard and fast on Dk to get things moving. Towards the end of our back and forth I came to the realization that their position on me at the time wasn't scummy, just loud and abrasive. "Time to look elsewhere."

2. Again... I stated what I felt at the time when I did it. I later addressed Hockey directly. I'm not sure if you're expecting me to make some huge, awesome case for my early game votes and feels, but I will say as the game has developed I'm still comfortable with where I'm at. I can't really go back and apply what I have felt/seen since then to reason for it, which is kinda what I feel like you're trying to get me to do.

Relating to Hockey: Another thing that bothered me was how easily he townlocked me, because I can totally appreciate that my posts haven't been the most popular or screaming town. I responded to you earlier explaining that I don't care about consciously beaming townie vibes early game as much as I rather get discussions going. If I gotta poke the bear a little, then so be it. It helps me form town reads just as much as it helps flush out scum. I knew 178 wouldn't be popular either. But in my eyes Galron reacted in a town-like way, so that helped clear up my concerns on him a bit.




I'm neutral on Cows, STD, Enchant (though I would like to believe scum can't be getting away with this level of lurking). Still like Ember & Hockey for scum. Townie feels on Dk & Galron.

@Mod: Can we have a list for people not voting included in the Vountcount posts, please?

I'm having a hard time understanding why everyone at this point in the game doesn't have a vote sitting on someone they want gone or at least pressured. Enchant & Cows, can you please speak on this some more?

[cowsloveSushirolls]

cows takes a nap and ruins the thread's momentum (part one)

here is a BFP (big f,.,., fat post)

Spoiler: std iso

16 is a bleh entrance because 1) he already had a strike and 2) he wasn't aware of 1 and didn't try to get a strike anyways
i don't know what it was supposed to do
li ike 36, was after toxic attempted to align with StD in their opening post, so the vote feels pretty good if i put myself in his shoes. booo hockey
49 and the subsequent hockey vote 51 don't feel good because his toxic vote was way more fine
the sequence of 53, 54, 56, 57, 59 are nai don't care don't care
61 i used to think was terrible
drafted a post a while ago but it felt too maldy and didn't really fit the thread's mood. little did i know
cows said:
""

i'm probably not going to read a game modded by a known mafia cheater but i do find it ironic that someone cheated in their game. sorry it got ruined for the rest of you

anyway, hockey's scum is probably where i'm at

taking in all of this information about the game and yet missing all of its merit doesn't sit right with me

i find this post so weird because clearly STD had read enough to know that one, the game was hosted by shellyc, subject of the greatest sea shanty cover known to man and two, this was the game w/ the cheater and finally, all 3 of koba, hockey and me were in the game and that it was a valuable meta resource because it was recent, in a very similar setup format to this one and had tons of material?
""
then i realized it was just a regular case of metabad so i shelved it

Anyway I'm going back to ignoring koba

going back to 505 > going back to ignoring koba
120 is agreeable, that page had a couple of genuine takes from galron i feel
127, 129, 132 are all posts that discourage tunnelling, also a certain angle he's taking to read people he hasn't talked about yet. super methodical. not that i remember the last game i played with STD vividly but i never noticed anything like this
i don't feel like commenting on his progression on me, but it's there
lot of NAI posts (without context?) until 210 onward which is a lot of beating around the bush regarding making a read on ember
at least until 251, which is actually a pretty good readslist (based on results only) provided that neither of us are washed
something in calling ember's introduction bad while having a sub-par one feels towny but makes me want to flip ember even more

std's a net positive, really wonky earlygame but has looked townier since then. wouldn't vote today

Spoiler: d1 lim list

will vehemently defend:

cows
galron
enchant

don't see the point in limming:

koba
toxic
std

POE:

hockeyfan?
ember

thanks for the iso, hockey
and for the response, ember, will visit both tomorrow
@toxic: there's still a lot i need to sort through for my POE slots

[DkKoba]

fwiw cows im fairly sure enchant hates voting early if iirc - might be mixing him up with someome else so dont quote me-
not sure about cows but they have a chat mafia background which also can default to not wanting to vote

[DkKoba]

The way i messed up who i was replying to LOL inmean/I meant toxic

[Enchant]

When i am not voting i apply pressure on all players equally.

[DkKoba]

When i am not voting i apply pressure on all players equally.

never change enchant

[Galron]

Galron stop deflecting.
If i link you a sample of 5 normal games where i was town - can you identify this "casing" you're claiming im lacking?
(I know the answer to that- im just seeing if you'll lie)

What would I lie about? I'm likely not going to read any games you link.

[toxictaipan]

fwiw cows im fairly sure enchant hates voting early if iirc - might be mixing him up with someome else so dont quote me-
not sure about cows but they have a chat mafia background which also can default to not wanting to vote

Hates voting early as in waits until final hours of D1 or as in we shouldn't expect to see a vote from Enchant D1?

When i am not voting i apply pressure on all players equally.

Cute, but I'm not seeing it.

[Galron]

2. Galron

92 why did you say this

112 you have koba as town but you're wary because of meta, can you elaborate why you had them as town here at all? can you tell me what's changed?

What's your thoughts on toxic rn?

1) I liked the pressure being applied.

2) DkKoba gets scum read a lot because of their aggressiveness. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. It seems like they upped the aggressiveness, and I haven't seen anything that looks like any more than "You're scum and I know this because I know this."

[Emberbloom]

Back with more later.

I fell asleep. :(

Longer post coming. Morning everyone.

[Galron]

2. Galron

92 why did you say this

112 you have koba as town but you're wary because of meta, can you elaborate why you had them as town here at all? can you tell me what's changed?

What's your thoughts on toxic rn?

1) I liked the pressure being applied.

2) DkKoba gets scum read a lot because of their aggressiveness. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. It seems like they upped the aggressiveness, and I haven't seen anything that looks like any more than "You're scum and I know this because I know this."

And I don't know about Toxic. I need to think about that. I haven't been super into any games right now because of time. I need to do the work.

[Emberbloom]

toxic: Looking back at his ISO I think shows the most consistent thought process of anyone. Votes Koba, asks Koba about Hockey with regards to STD, unvotes, votes me (suspecting Hockey as partner). Asks about Hockey, Galron engages, toxic asks questions to Galron saying he wants more content from non Dk/Hockey/him slots and engages STD a little more. Last post gives pretty consistent reads with all of that, and questions to cows and Enchant. Covers everyone, flows naturally. Leaning town, but, I can't help but ask directly after waiting a while:

@toxic

- why the vote on me? You've stated your reads as Hockey/me being scum, but other than "Ember is more likely scum than Hockey", I'm not seeing a real reason for your read. You said you gave a read in 258, but the only thing I can find is 153 and 168 and you kinda dodged STD's question there.

Really gonna need you to elaborate.

-----

STD: Neutral. 251 is probably his best post so far. I'll consider looking at cows' take a few posts back from here - posts and thought flow here didn't stick as easily as they did when I ISO'd Toxic.

@STD

: Why switch from Hockey to cows when you did, exactly? I understood the two votes earlier in a vacuum, but when I checked your ISO I only saw the vote, then a like/dislike/takeaway townread. What pinged you and what changed?

-----

Galron: I'd phrase the same Q to Galron but 180 seems to indicate it was a pressure test. 183 between toxic/Galron had me go back and check reads, and Galron's been pretty consistent with giving opinions on everyone/nothing sticks out as contradictory to a natural thought process, I think.

-----

Enchant: Lowest content of the game, so idk what to make of this slot.

@Enchant

- could you provide a bit more content, thoughts reads? if I had to pick about three players, I'd ask for opinions on STD, Cows, and Koba.

(out of game - do you have a prounoun you'd like people to use? you mentioned misgendering earlier but don't have one set.)

-----

Think the last two things I need to catch up on now are thoughts on Hockey, and thoughts/responses to Koba.

[Emberbloom]

I will say before I dive into more game stuff this morning/afternoon, that I've seen enough suspicion thrown Hockey's way to where I think they're a viable wagon at the moment.

Y'know. If anyone's interested. Especially from those who think I'm scum and Hockey's my supposed partner.


I'm not opposed to a Hockey wagon or lim, going off my memory, but I don't exactly want to move my vote

before

giving a fair crack at an ISO.

[Emberbloom]

*He's a viable wagon at the moment.

Pronouns. Coffee. Sorry.

[Emberbloom]

actually let me rephrase that: why do you believe my play cannot be from town

Hey Koba.

In one of the (infinite number of) timelines where you're wrong, I'm town, and the "case" for me does not actually exist... (which, this is one of them; but I feel like that's unnecessary for me to point out)


Removing yourself from the equation as much as possible, who would be the opportunistic scum jumping on these unfounded suspicions, from your POV? Or like, in a vacuum/mafia theory sense.

Since your play here seems to be action-based rather than intent-based, in theory I'm sure you can give me

something

to work with.

[Emberbloom]

UNVOTE:


Make one comment about "oh look, Ember finally sees she can't push me LMAO #skills" and the vote goes right back on, just sayin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Emberbloom]

Oh, forgot about this before I go off on more tangents:

the noise noise noise and yawn parts of her posts are scummy

Would you believe me if I told you I was intentionally trying to be a little condescending/smarmy with those? I had to google and double check that was a word, by the way.


But yeah, my first post, "noise noise noise, vote toxic", was intentional. He was the first player down on the list that hadn't posted early on, so I wanted to see if anyone jumped on me for dismissing the earlygame as "noise", or even

noticed

I was ignoring everything else. I implied or basically said this back in post 80 (near the middle/bullet points).

No one noticed from what I saw, then we had a page about meta stuff, so in keeping with trying to be annoying + considering that page devoid of real content, y'all got a "yawn". I generally dropped the

intentional

condescension after I latched onto Koba's posts.


So if you got scummy from those posts... that was fair.