newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[schadd_]

prodding roden

[Facebones]

Why, because they're the only 2 players who seem to be on my wagon right now?
Coincidence?
You shouldn't base your town reads based on people who are so damn adament about arguably the easiest mislim

[Facebones]

And thank you. You are doing the lords work @Thyn

While we're on the topic of saying weird things, what about this?

[DArby]

Why, because they're the only 2 players who seem to be on my wagon right now?
Coincidence?
You shouldn't base your town reads based on people who are so damn adament about arguably the easiest mislim

I’m not my townread is because I don’t think they’d be silly enough to nk Galron. Margot is slipping tho.

[DArby]

And thank you. You are doing the lords work @Thyn

While we're on the topic of saying weird things, what about this?

He made a good argument against you that you never responded to.

Jesus fuck this game is dead.

[MargotRosa]

Ok, when I am in games that are dead, I have tried a couple different strategies in the past. I have tried going hard on a read that I have that is incredibly shallow to see if it sticks, or will reveal some info I have that might shake up the game state.

Given this is a semi-open newbie game, noone, let alone myself, really has game breaking info to share. So I felt comfortable scum reading you hard to, as I say, see if it stuck.

My rundown of Roden's post was to say that two out of three of the things mentioned are not alliance indicative for me at all. One of them really is. And because of that, the read didn't stick.

Similarly, day 1, nothing happened early. I scum read Cook, mostly on account of big personal beef with their Strat, and being convinced it's whole point was to be pro scum in a way that was not obvious. That changed because I thought about it, I looked at the scum PT, and I came to the conclusion that I hadn't really considered the possibility that Cook just had no clue what she was talking about. It became obvious to me, late D1, that it was more likely that Cook had no clue what she was doing, than that Cook was Scum, and voted accordingly

[MargotRosa]

I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol

VOTE: Thyn

[DArby]

I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol

VOTE: Thyn

RIP Spangled

Also I dont think that’s going to stick. We have what? A day left? Would you compromise w FB or are you willing to go this route and risk a no-Lem?

[Thynhith]

I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol

VOTE: Thyn

What makes FB null for you? He's so blatantly scum, we have to lim him. Unless you can offer a better alternative, and I don't see how I'm scummier than he is? I'm scumreading him harder than I scumread Cook, he's lurked through D1 and barely seems motivated. His posts have nothing to show from reading our iso and he seems hellbent on not helping us at all. If you could offer a better alternative I'm happy to listen to you. Btw, you're missing spangled from your list.

I get where you're coming from on Val and Roden, but do you think them scummier than FB?

[Thynhith]

I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol

VOTE: Thyn

I’ll give game-advancing content sometime, I swear. Problem is, I want to do a full reread of the thread and maybe some ISOs besides, both to answer Val’s question on where I’m at wrt DArby and Margot, and to get a handle on the game, and I haven’t had time so far. Soon.
tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow

@Spangled hows your reread going? Can you give us what you've got? EoD is in about a day and a half, so we really need your thoughts and vote in a timely manner.
@Val same goes for you, we cannot afford to nolim today and we can hardly rely on Roden

[MargotRosa]

I would prefer to eliminate FB than no Lim. We have a day and three quarters by my reckoning

[MargotRosa]

Of course, Spangled, thanks.

Idk with Spangled to be honest. I think they are much more checked out than they have been letting on, which makes me trust them less

[MargotRosa]

In a wild twist of events the only 2 players I think are trustable are Thyn and Val.

This is wrong though. If you are TRing Val right now, you are trusting gut waaaaaaay too hard

[Facebones]

Spangled and Roden do seem to have dropped off a bit, and if they are scum it seems easy for them to blend into the background, because the headline story has ended up being "let's lynch Facebones because he threw up a bunch of red flags when questioned." which I feel is down to my lack of experience rather than being AI.

I've been trying to help, I've put forth my read lists and instead of taking any part of my posts on board, people seem to take every opportunity to poke holes in my arguments and devalue them, pointing the FoS squarely in my face. Wonder why I'm lurking?
Because everytime I do come out and say something, people twist and turn it into making me look scummy and immediately go on the attack. I feel way out of my depth here.

Anyway, I don't think people are going to get onboard with a DArby lim today so with that in mind

VOTE: Thyn

[DArby]

In a wild twist of events the only 2 players I think are trustable are Thyn and Val.

This is wrong though. If you are TRing Val right now, you are trusting gut waaaaaaay too hard

Val would not kill Galron. That’s such a silly move for an experienced player to allow happen.

[DArby]

Spangled and Roden do seem to have dropped off a bit, and if they are scum it seems easy for them to blend into the background, because the headline story has ended up being "let's lynch Facebones because he threw up a bunch of red flags when questioned." which I feel is down to my lack of experience rather than being AI.

I've been trying to help, I've put forth my read lists and instead of taking any part of my posts on board, people seem to take every opportunity to poke holes in my arguments and devalue them, pointing the FoS squarely in my face. Wonder why I'm lurking?
Because everytime I do come out and say something, people twist and turn it into making me look scummy and immediately go on the attack. I feel way out of my depth here.

Anyway, I don't think people are going to get onboard with a DArby lim today so with that in mind

VOTE: Thyn

@Margot how do you read this as null?

[DArby]

Also FB said the no-no word

[Val89]

I am a little less concerned about the choice of word and more the fact that the story as to why he has been lurking has changed from 'I have enough experience now that my play style has changed from game I played last year that Val quoted, and my new style is to prefer to sit back and deduce from the interactions without interfering with them' to 'I am inexperienced, and everytime I say something I get suspicion directed towards me, so I would rather stay quiet'.

I'm not convinced by the arguments presented as to why Facebones deserves a townread. I think the slot is, taken in isolation, pretty damn scummy. I have had, and maintain, reservations about the wagon based not on that he seems town, but rather that he might have been TMId as town by a slot I found scummy D1. I am waiting for Spangled, and I personally think figuring out Spangled alignment is going to be key to unlocking this whole game.

I have to register concern at the fact that a wagon seems to be forming around Thyn in particular. Some people have reservations about the Facebones wagon, fair enough. There isn't a lot of work with, and time is ticking towards a deadline in a game that appears to be stalling out. Am I really being asked to support the idea we now spend that remaining time we have focusing on the other slot with have

even less

to work with, that most people are reading null and those that do have a scumread on have given little to no justification for, and are, at least to me, the scummy slots themselves? That smells like a recipe for a rushed, low-info lim that might well turn out to be a mislim.

Correct me if I am wrong, but by my calculation, if both scum are still alive tomorrow, we could be in a mis-lim and lose scenario if we get this wrong today. I'm not comfortable with liming what is basically a null slot on that basis, particularly when it is being pushed by slots I find scummy. I want to hear from Spangled. What I hear might change my opinion, but as of now I would rather do Spangled over Facebones; but I don't think you will convince me to vote Thyn over Facebones unless the alternative is a no-lim and we are right up against the deadline.

[Facebones]

Also FB said the no-no word

Just to be clear, what is the no-no word?
I didn't use any expletive, I didn't curse...
Please explain

Val, why do you seem unwilling to believe in the possibility of multiple reasons existing?
It was to observe, I handed forth what I had observed (which wasn't a lot because a lot of the D1 talk was drivel over Cook's plan)
That apparently seemed to raise some red flags and everything I said thereon after incriminated me in the eyes of most
It feels like a lot of confirmation bias and nothing I say is going to change your mind at this stage - the more I say, the more you'll find ways to misinterpret and make me look guilty

[Val89]

Just to be clear, what is the no-no word?

This one.

Val, why do you seem unwilling to believe in the possibility of multiple reasons existing?

Occam's razor, basically. Yes, there could be an innocent reason you could have given us only half an answer the first time, but it looks like you gave an answer (one that I would have probably bought, by the way, if you had come up with some well-justified reads when asked at that point) and then modifed it when it was clear you had, or at least what you've shared, is rather shallow and doesn't really stack up with the 'outside observer' explaination.

I think I've been pretty clear that, despite the things that have pinged me, I do have the possibility that you are still town, and are being TMId as town, in the back of my mind, and I'm waiting to hear from other slots in order to try and sort that out.

My point is this: I'm not yet 100 percent happy with your wagon, which is why I'm not voting just yet, and I would feel much happier if we had more time and everyone was here and contributing, but in the absence of that, I am happier with a wagon on a slot that was basically null d1, then made some posts I consider fairly scummy, then a wagon on someone who was also basically null d1, but hasn't done anything to ping me, perhaps edged into a slight townlean, on D2.

[Facebones]

Ahh right! Apologies for my use of the word lynch.
The correct terminology is eliminate and I shan't forgive myself.
I'm sorry for all the offense that my carelessness is responsible for and .


Val, I'm rather curious as to what your read list looks like.
You think Spangled and myself are the scummiest, right?
Where is Margot on this list?

Who do you think is looking the most towny at this point?

[Facebones]

EBWOP
I'm sorry for all the offense that my carelessness is responsible for and understand if you also aren't willing to grant me forgiveness over such ignorance.

[Val89]

Val, I'm rather curious as to what your read list looks like.
You think Spangled and myself are the scummiest, right?
Where is Margot on this list?

Correct. In isolation, I think you and Spangled are tied for scummiest - Spangled being scummiest D1, and giving us basically nothing to work with today apart from the fact he seemed to have a decent insight (in the sense that I agree with his conclusions) on why Galron was killed, but basically MIA otherwise; it may well be NAI IRL activity issue, but the longer it goes on, the more it worries me; and you (Facebones), who I think gave us little to work with on D1, but have pinged me as scummy with your posting today.

Margot, and particularly since 646 onwards, isn't all that far behind, though. I think there is an associative between you and Spangled, which I have already explained; and if there is another associative staring us in the face, I think it's between Spangled and Margot, who Townlocked Spangled on what appeared to me as the flimsiest of justifications, and then said she was more convinced about Spangled being town after what she concedes is a "clearly blatantly and obviously scummy post" (342[/post); and today told us she wouldn't consider a Spangled wagon while telling us explicitly she had no intention of justifying that beyond him being a solid town read ([post]609). After all that, she then purports to forget he even exists. That didn't seem all that genuine.

Looking back at her progression Facebones, and things don't sit quite right either. Her 680 seems to suggest that she only really had a shallow scumread on you, but went hard on it because that's what she does when the game is dead in order to see it it will stick, but then the 3rd part, and only that part, of Rodens town case was sufficient to convince her to abandon that read. In other words, she had given Facebones a fair amount of towncred - enough to move from a scumlean, even one she now tells us was only shallow, to a townread on the basis of what Roden had said about him taking time and effort to look at the previous time Cook proposed her strategy, and to get off the Facebones wagon.

DArby disagrees with the point Roden made, as do I but for a different reason. I thought there is something that all 3 of them have missed, which I have discussed in a fair amount of detail now already. I don't think they have missed it deliberately because it's something that could easily be missed if looking at the ISO out of context. I point it out, and Margot has some sort of weird emotional reaction to that. I would read that reaction again (647 and 648). Remember, she was apparently holding the same read both myself and DArby (and apparently Thyn, as of 634) not all that long prior to Roden giving his take, although she claims to have overstated the degree to which she was holding it, but now that read is "objectively useless", and so blatantly bad she is on the cusp of going from town reading us both to scumreading us on the back of it? She then, one post later, tells us that actually, she isn't giving Facebones heaps of towncred (??) and actually her unvote on Facebones was supposed to be some sort of magic bat signal to some other slot, and doesn't really indicate what she thinks of his alignment.

I really can't help but shake the impression that there is something strange going on between the three of those slots (Spangled, Margot and Facebones). I'm not sure if Thyn and myself have become the subjects of a chainsaw defense by Margot in respect to Facebones; and that's our scumteam; or if both Spangled and now Margot have TMI'd Facebones as town, despite the obvious scumminess, in the same vein as Cook being scummy AF while flipping town. I still think Spangled is the key to unlocking this game, and I grow more and more uncomfortable with his continued absence after the prod dodge. Whatever happens, I think we gain maximum info from limming inside that pool.

Who do you think is looking the most towny at this point?

I still like DArby; and I've not been able to get behind any of the reasons I've seen given for scumreading him. I thought his D2 open was a little off, but he seemed to recognise his mistake fairly quickly, whereas I think scum would have persisted with that a bit longer, particularly as it appears Thyn was also buying into the NK speculation for a short while. I would like to probe Roden a bit more, particularly around his towncase on Facebones, and I am not exactly thrilled he appears to have gone MIA right now, but if he really has gone on vacation, I'm not about to start scumreading him for it. He remains a townlean for me currently. Thyn has earned himself a slight townlean over the course of D2 as well, but that's based on gut more than anything really concrete. It's a pretty difficult ISO to sort, particularly being as heavy as it is on the questions, but it's notable how Thyn has been one of the few slots to engage with me on subjects such as the justification or otherwise of Spangleds' D1 FB read, even if we have come to different conclusions on the matter.

[schadd_]

prodding spangled & seeking replacement for roden which will probably incur a deadline extension

[schadd_]

;