Mini Normal 2245: LJITGBSMoD [game over!]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Holy shit, my memory was right. This is like night and day compared to Newbie 2068.

Val,

what’s happening??

[marcistar]

i do remember having thoughts similar to that before tbh, but i dont think its strong enough for me to want to vote.

what im most interested in right now is val.. for admittingly meta reasons (and i dont do meta typically )
to me, its a type of read i don't usually wanna push forward; it feels weak for the simple reason he could always counteract it with "bruh i was busy" or something, i hate meta reading but i might as well just talk about it.

when me and val played, i rolled mafia admittingly, so my pov of this might be a bit tainted
i remember to start off, he made a random vote with a bigass wall very early on.
and then he got into a huge 1v1 with someone based on reactions to that wall which took up all the attention of the thread; and im not really seeing that sort of motivation here.

to me; it feels like he rolled a different alignment.
but, i didn't want to vote him because ive sorta been waiting to see how long itll take him to step up like i saw him previously.

im not sure if these thoughts are typed up well enough tbh, im in a dnd vc so im a bit distracted.

[AliceK]

I don't wanna see anyone acting stupid this game, or you'll have my unlimited fury poured into destroying you. When I have a solve, you'll LISTEN TO IT.

depends

VOTE: darby

I don't like his posts.

what dont u like about them

Comment about vig shot sounded fake. Almost like he tried very hard to act as uninformed as possible. This mindset comes from scum.

[NorwegianboyEE]

All,

I am so sorry I am so late to the thread - you've all given me so much to think about, so it has taken me a little while to gather my thoughts and process it all.

One advantage of waiting until there has been a bit of back and forth is that one can start to get a sense of how the game is going to go, and start to make some initial reads. Lots to unpack here, so I'll get straight to it.

First!

I don't like this post. Clearly, post 6 is not post 1, and lying to us straight out of the bad is not a good look. In fact, I propose that we should make it a sort of agreement between us that if any of us are caught lying - about anything - we should give strong consideration to eliminating said person as a result. In addition, the whole post - the content, the tone, the context in which it was posted just gives me a general sense of unease. It was a gut read initially, but I think it's clear I was considering

MiniMegabyte

as at least a slight leanscum here already. Hence far, I have to say the rest of the players are null reads, which considering how advanced the game state is we can start to stop chucking random votes around, this took me a surprise - I was about to say we have some very good mafia players here, but then it occurred to me that if you were truly that skilled you would have convinced me to give you at least a slight townread by now.

(inserts shaking hands emoji here)

Ahh, and here is it; the smoking gun that grants some confidence to that earlier gut read. I am aware of the existence of confirmation bias, so I have gone through all the contributions

MiniMegabyte

has made very carefully several times to try and guard against that, but no -

MiniMegabyte

is a strong scum read at this point. Let me explain.

MiniMegabyte

is clearly trying to insinuate that she has no personal knowledge of

VFP

, particularly as this comes of the back of

VFPs

explicit (and as it turned out - also false) statement that they don't know

anyone

in the game. Also of interest is the actual emoji chosen here - a handshake. Between two persons. To the exclusion of the rest of the group. See where I am going with this? She also specifically and pointedly says "Nice to meet

ya

!" instead of "nice to meet

you

". We all know English is one of those languages where 'you' can refer to a singular or an individual. Using it here would be natural, avoid the wavy red line most modern day browsers would assign to the word, and give her the benefit of the ambiguity if anyone paying attention catches it. Instead, we get the informal 'ya', standing in contrast to 'y'all', which to me is a further indication the introduction is addressed specifically to

VFP

and she wants us to know it.

The question now becomes why? In my view, the only explanation that makes any sort of sense is she wants us to think, even if only subconsciously, that this over the top, public performance is the first time these two have ever came in to contact, and they most definitely have

NOT

already said hi to each other in the scum thread. No sir, definitely not! Nothing to see here folks! Shake my hand and smile!

You might think that this makes

VFP

her scum partner then, and the game is solved. Putting aside my feelings towards how I would feel if my first ever game of Mafia was solved and ended on the first IRL day, I don't actually think this is the case. I think

MiniMegabyte

knew that someone might pick up on the vibes between the two here and our first thought would be that they are scum partners. But equally, perhaps that what they just want us to think? I wish there was some term to describe this, but I've checked the wiki inside out and can't find one, so I have invented one, both to refer to this situation and the approach I think we should take to try and come to some sort of conclusion as to how to deal with it. I call it Written Information Follows Overt Meta (WIFOM) - in other words, when what you see written down is in line with what would be expected from your experience you should assume that it is true. No sane scum player wants to associate themselves so strongly with their scum partner so obviously and early, so when we see it happening, we should assume that ISN'T what is happening, that makes no sense. Thus, this is all a big play, and we can actually rule out

VFP

as the other scum. As an aside, feel free to use that acronym in your future posts, but do try to remember who invented it and give credit every now and again.

There is the open question as to why

VFP

also lied about their association with other players, but I am going to assume for the moment that was a legitimate mistake - I know what I said about eliminating proven liars, but I don't think they would be so fast to walk it back. In contrast, I think

MiniMegabyte

fully expected that "First!" lie to slip under the radar.

So;

VFP

townread,

MiniMegabyte

scumread,b]

everyone else

[/b]null. I think it's pretty clear given that set of reads where my vote should go. I'm going to put my vote where it obviously belongs, and strongly feel that we should make them the elimination for the day. Obviously there is quite a bit of time left before deadline, and I would like to see some more discussion, but I will put my vote on them and see what happens with the rest of the votes. Being the first, I won't be able to hammer, but I want to make it clear that I would be prepared to hammer, and it will take a lot now to convince me to switch my vote.

With all that said: VOTE: T3

Hi.

VOTE: marcistar.

Like this is the level of difference we’re talking here.
And it seems like Marci has another story to share.

[AliceK]

I remember alice lurked whn I played with town her last.

It depends how many pages I need to read, if too many then I usually lost interest and lurk. Unless I find motivation to catch up somehow.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: val89
if me, norwee, and marci are all saying the same thing, then it's very likely something is actually up

[Dwlee99]

Norwee ignores me to push some meta case

I am a scorned lover

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think Val would be perfectly capable of writing an wall as scum, but the fact that they haven’t. It feels a bit calculated, like they’re trying to get a better read on the gamestate before making one.

[marcistar]

All,

I've played with some of you before, and I'm glad to see all two of you back for more. For those of you don't know me, allow me to introduce myself - my name is Val89, and I'm known for opening my games by posting what appears on it's surface to be a load of crap and can't possibly be alignment indicative, but actually completely deduces the scum team in my first post. If you don't beleive me, allow me to refer you to the game in question. Yes, a sample size of one, but that is 100% of the games I've played that aren't ongoing and thus fair game for discussion. Not bad odds, I am sure you will agree.

So, I have to say my attention has been immeadately drawn by not_mafia: Clearly, if we consider only alignment at this stage, ignoring the possibility of a serious mod error, there are only 2 possiblities: Not Mafia is mafia, or Not Mafia is not mafia.

There are 9 players in the setup, of which 2 are mafia. That makes the probablity of case A, that Not Mafia is Mafia, as 2/9ths; and conversely, case B, that Not Mafia is not mafia as 7/9s.

Let's now consider another Non-Not Mafia player from the list, lets say, for sake of example, Lukewarm. The same possibities apply - either Lukewarm is mafia, or Lukewarm is not mafia. But Lukewarm is not Not Mafia, because that would be against the site rules precluding playing in the same game under two different names, so Lukewarm HAS to mafia. This logic can be applied to any other player you substitue for Lukewarm, with the sole exception of Not Mafia, meaning that 8 out of 9 players in the game would have to be mafia. Clearly, this is a contridiction, and so our initial assumption is wrong.

If you instead consider the alternative posibilities that either Not Mafia is mafia, or that Not Mafia is not not mafia, then we resolve our contridication. While this doesn't give us any clues as to any of the other playerbase, returning to our example, Lukewarm being not mafia is fine, if not mafia is not Not Mafia. Thus, either Not Mafia is mafia, or Not Mafia is not Not Mafia, and since Not Mafia CLEARY IS Not Mafia, then Not Mafia is mafia. Easy

VOTE: Not_Mafia

+


i know he prob chose me to vote cuz he was the n1 nk but like still wheres his motivation

[NorwegianboyEE]

Ok yeah, i’ll vote here.
VOTE: Val89

[NorwegianboyEE]

Norwee ignores me to push some meta case

I am a scorned lover

I’m just coodere.

[marcistar]

is it mean to meta read tho

[NorwegianboyEE]

is it mean to meta read tho

See, this is what i’m saying.

Too friendly for their own good. :<

[marcistar]

is it bad

[NorwegianboyEE]

It’s not bad. But remember we’re at war here.
Sometimes ya gotta mercilessly execute some bad guys, know what i’m sayin?

[T3]

yasss marci norwee townblock

[T3]

VOTE: val

[marcistar]

It’s not bad. But remember we’re at war here.
Sometimes ya gotta mercilessly execute some bad guys, know what i’m sayin?

ah alright then

VOTE: val

it still feels so mean tho, what if he comes back and it kills any motivation he couldve gotten..?

-

whats the number of maf we looking for..?

[Gamma Emerald]

yasss marci norwee townblock

there's more to my townblock than just those but yeah norwee can join mine

[marcistar]

gamma and jolyne hmm

[NorwegianboyEE]

it still feels so mean tho, what if he comes back and it kills any motivation he couldve gotten..?

I'd still like for him to show up and post before i make my final judgement.

But yes, pressure is good.

[DArby]

I don't wanna see anyone acting stupid this game, or you'll have my unlimited fury poured into destroying you. When I have a solve, you'll LISTEN TO IT.

depends

VOTE: darby

I don't like his posts.

what dont u like about them

Comment about vig shot sounded fake. Almost like he tried very hard to act as uninformed as possible. This mindset comes from scum.

It’s crazy because this is my first normal game so yes, I am uninformed. Weird read to see ignorance as AI.

[DArby]

I think Val would be perfectly capable of writing an wall as scum, but the fact that they haven’t. It feels a bit calculated, like they’re trying to get a better read on the gamestate before making one.

^ It’s so obvious that I think y’all are looking too hard. The man isn’t a machine.

[DArby]

Holy shit, my memory was right. This is like night and day compared to Newbie 2068.

Val,

what’s happening??

Actually I don’t trust this. My strongest scum read this game is now here. Let the man say hi.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

[marcistar]

toxictaipan

im interested in ur input on this val stuff, do u mind giving some thoughts about that and anything else u may have thought of..?

alicek

you seem fine enough rn, but

Hey Alice, remember that time you asked me if i’d buss both my teammates as scum and i answered no then proceeded to endgame as mafia?


GOOD TIMES~

Haha, very well played. I was suspecting you, but couldn't find good arguments to accuse you. Just hoped I was paranoid. Didn't happen.

do you have any sort of read on norwegianboyee rn..? im curious if anything seems similar to that play you've seen from him, or if you have a townread on him..?

camelcasedsnivy

UNVOTE: darby
They're showing a towny thought process - also im vla until monday, very busy weekend. i delegate thread leading to marci and darby

They've only made one read post and honestly I don't think town would vote someone if someone else told them to.
I'm sticking to my vote as of now

how strong is this read..? do you have more to this read or just what u've shown..?
has anything else raised an eyebrow or has only darby..?

- -

Holy shit, my memory was right. This is like night and day compared to Newbie 2068.

Val,

what’s happening??

Actually I don’t trust this. My strongest scum read this game is now here. Let the man say hi.

VOTE: NorwegianboyEE

dont agree, but i like this post from u <3