Mini Theme 2244: 3d20 uRoll – Somewhere In New Jersey [End]

[Loftwing]

Which is why we need someone to replace out so that he can replace in and be crucified.

[Bingle]

I don't think NM was actually claiming jester. This conversation feels pointless

The conversation isn’t about an extant jester claim, but rather that any jesters SHOULD claim because doing so guarantees their win.

@Loft: Jester has to be eliminated at some point before XLO or we simply lose in XLO because a non game ending jester in this setup has a trivial wincon. Today is the day with the lowest chance of limming scum otherwise because duh. Scum has no reason to shoot a jester claim. All of that is objectively true. Your argument is functionally: we should wait to eliminate jester until we potentially have nka and/or investigative results because maybe we’ll win without hitting XLO, in which case… we would have won the game anyway.

[Loftwing]

I don't think NM was actually claiming jester. This conversation feels pointless

The conversation isn’t about an extant jester claim, but rather that any jesters SHOULD claim because doing so guarantees their win.

@Loft: Jester has to be eliminated at some point before XLO or we simply lose in XLO because a non game ending jester in this setup has a trivial wincon. Today is the day with the lowest chance of limming scum otherwise because duh. Scum has no reason to shoot a jester claim. All of that is objectively true. Your argument is functionally: we should wait to eliminate jester until we potentially have nka and/or investigative results because maybe we’ll win without hitting XLO, in which case… we would have won the game anyway.

We would still get to XLO in the same number of days with or without executing a Jester.

Suppose the setup is as follows:

9 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Jester.

Assume that Mafia always kill town.

When will XLO be if we don't execute the jester?
When will XLO be if we do execute the jester?

[Dwlee99]

Killing jester gives more night actions than delaying it

[Bingle]

hmm. bingle. could be town UNVOTE: i think i know what he's doing

You'll have to be more specific. Are you referring to the "Trying to get 3p players to claim", "Fishing for reactions to the existence of a breaking strategy", or "engaging with people to generate reads"? Cause they're all pretty separate.

[Bingle]

9 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Jester.

Assume that Mafia always kill town.

When will XLO be if we don't execute the jester?
When will XLO be if we do execute the jester?

3 Maf 1 Jester 5 Town is XLO.
3 Maf 4 Town is also XLO.

The latter has more information, because there's been an additional night phase and the pool of suspects is smaller.

Limming a Jester claim D1 simply guarantees not mislimming a power role D1. This is not Rocket Surgery.

[cyrus62]

I don't think NM was actually claiming jester. This conversation feels pointless

The conversation isn’t about an extant jester claim, but rather that any jesters SHOULD claim because doing so guarantees their win.

@Loft: Jester has to be eliminated at some point before XLO or we simply lose in XLO because a non game ending jester in this setup has a trivial wincon. Today is the day with the lowest chance of limming scum otherwise because duh. Scum has no reason to shoot a jester claim. All of that is objectively true. Your argument is functionally: we should wait to eliminate jester until we potentially have nka and/or investigative results because maybe we’ll win without hitting XLO, in which case… we would have won the game anyway.

We would still get to XLO in the same number of days with or without executing a Jester.

Suppose the setup is as follows:

9 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Jester.

Assume that Mafia always kill town.

When will XLO be if we don't execute the jester?
When will XLO be if we do execute the jester?

this is a attemp to lead town in to thinking it's just 9 3 1 when we know there is 7 something is that 7 town or is that 6 scum types and one cult meaning 7 unknow vs 6 know. Dang my theory's suck.

[Bingle]

we know there is 7 something

We explicitly don't know this.

My flavor color is #888888, italicized. This will denote information that is not necessary to read to play the game, but will improve your immersion should you read it.

The flavor is flavor, it's not actually game relevant.

[Loftwing]

@Bingle Fine. We will burn down a Jester that claims if that will make you happy. I still think it's a cop-out answer for scum not needing to actually scumhunt. (I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

@Cyrus uhh wat. What?

WHAT???

How the hell did you draw that connection for my oversimplified and clearly not realistic diagram of not this game?

[Loftwing]

Like, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion "Oh, loftwing is trying to trick the town into thinking that there's 9 townies when there's only 7!"

[cyrus62]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

[cyrus62]

Sorry loft your questions came during my post so let me aim at that

[cyrus62]

@Bingle Fine. We will burn down a Jester that claims if that will make you happy. I still think it's a cop-out answer for scum not needing to actually scumhunt. (I also think that a Jester wouldn't self-vote in XLO because executing a Mafia member at least will continue the game while doing nothing makes them lose)

@Cyrus uhh wat. What?

WHAT???

How the hell did you draw that connection for my oversimplified and clearly not realistic diagram of not this game?

Why are you acting wired bingel is not town here .

[cyrus62]

Dw how many games are you playing?

[Loftwing]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

No one is suggesting there is a Jester.
I don't see much reason to think that 7 means 7 townies. There's nothing that mechanically confirms or denies that, and 7 is just a 51% majority of 13

[cyrus62]

Why are we even surgesting there is a jester. Not mafia isn't here for one and loft most likely something that draws the night kill. Bingel seems to be prodding looking for places to vote. That is a hint. Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it. But will help you to read it so if you think of it that seven stands for something.maybe it's just how many people it takes to vote someone off but that would be lame flavor.

No one is suggesting there is a Jester.
I don't see much reason to think that 7 means 7 townies. There's nothing that mechanically confirms or denies that, and 7 is just a 51% majority of 13

I'm saying it could be mean 7 town. Or it could mean 2 scum 2 ww 2 alien and one cult and 6 town.

[cyrus62]

Ok I dislike that thought cuse that would mean once we vote someone off we could be down to 2 town d2

[cyrus62]

But cross kill would happen .

[Bingle]

Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it.

If Cook is providing game relevant information via flavor without having advertised that, that is explicitly bastard influence and moderator interference in the game and she's definitely in the wrong, given this is a Semi Open. Additionally, it's shitty moderator practice. If you think this is the case, I suggest you actually PM Cook to check, as her rules explicitly tell you to use PMs.

[cyrus62]

Cook is saying you don't have to read it as in it won't make you break any rules if you don't read it.

If Cook is providing game relevant information via flavor without having advertised that, that is explicitly bastard influence and moderator interference in the game and she's definitely in the wrong, given this is a Semi Open. Additionally, it's shitty moderator practice. If you think this is the case, I suggest you actually PM Cook to check, as her rules explicitly tell you to use PMs.

Ok then. I don't know how to respond to this.

[Cook]

Flavor has no mechanical relevance. "Seven" indicates how many votes necessary to eliminate someone. Post in question edited to reflect this.

[Dragon of the West]

like i think i already messed up posting i think me hiding this game would have been best.

??????

Like I know I'm guilty of skimming Cyrus's posts but how did NO ONE at least ask about this?

Cyrus what is this post

I
I was ignoring it as a PR softclaim, tbh.

It does look like something that one would say in the scum werk room.

If it was anyone besides Cyrus I'd be more inclined to give space for it being a PR soft.... But it's Cyrus and reads like a PT!slip

[Dragon of the West]

we know there is 7 something

We explicitly don't know this.

My flavor color is #888888, italicized. This will denote information that is not necessary to read to play the game, but will improve your immersion should you read it.

The flavor is flavor, it's not actually game relevant.

I assumed 7 because it's 7 votes to elim someone

[Dragon of the West]

we know there is 7 something

We explicitly don't know this.

My flavor color is #888888, italicized. This will denote information that is not necessary to read to play the game, but will improve your immersion should you read it.

The flavor is flavor, it's not actually game relevant.

I assumed 7 because it's 7 votes to elim someone

Flavor has no mechanical relevance. "Seven" indicates how many votes necessary to eliminate someone. Post in question edited to reflect this.

I should catch up before saying stuff

[ssbm_Kyouko]

So… I have a method by which we could maybe break the game but it is both unfun and at the very least against the spirit of the rules.

Thoughts?

How can this be done? You said "maybe" - does it depend on what people actually rolled, or are you unsure if it will work and it is independent of rolls?

It does depend on the rolls (there are theoretical worlds where it nets us no information in fact) and would explicitly not work with me or anyone I was partnered with. In fact, prior knowledge of how it works completely negates any advantage it might bring.

Were you aware I just called out loftwing as potential scum because it felt like they were fishing for ways to mitigate the strategy?

I wasnt asking to gauge whether you'd react the same way, just didn't think there was any guaranteed way to do it and was curious what you'd come up with. Doesnt sound like anything setup-breaking though, so my guess is its something similar to follow the cop which is risky to go forward with as it gets the investigative killed in the event there is no protective for them. Also in multiball any doctors should only be able to prevent one kill and it would be easy for a cop of any kind to get piled if they out as being an alignment cop without specifying which faction they can identify.