newbie 2080: correct statements (this is over)

[Spangled]

if FB isn’t scum I don’t know where I am in this game
I mean, I don’t think I ever have, whenever I’ve thought that I knew where I was I was suddenly not there anymore
but that’s neither here nor there

whichever wagon finally really takes off we can’t rush it
we can’t

[Spangled]

we have one day, seven hours before EoD, which means I’ll be here again before that happens
so I should away to sleep because real life > mafia

[Spangled]

I'm not engaging in the back and forth anymore. It's ridiculous, and looks bad.

I don't understand this attitude. Looks bad for whom? Frankly, if you think I am scum, and I am revealing myself as such through these interactions, then that's a positive for town and you would want them to continue, no?

this makes a good point

‘looks bad’ is just awful

[Spangled]

I don’t know, I feel like the thread’s shifted to considering Thynhith the Lim Candidate, and when that happens for no reason and consensus suddenly, wrenchingly,

shifts

, it always seems to be a mislim
just the whole situation feels off

I mean, isn’t that what happened to Cook?

but at the same time, one wagon standing unopposed with no one willing to finally finish it is often town as well, which means there are meta-wagon-analysis things in favour of both Thyn and FB being town

but who else could be scum?
well, probably frickin’ anyone at this point

I think I’ll stand behind TRs of Vulture, Val and Margot to keep myself sane for now

[Spangled]

still 2 scum, still 2 PRs
7 people, so MyLo at 5 people after today assuming a mislim
and, y’know, you know the saying, expect the worst so that no matter what you’re not disappointed
or something like that

[Spangled]

oh shit wait I’m having my covid shot tomorrow midday, if I have a severe reaction to it I obviously won’t be able to post
maybe I should vote now

eh nah I’ll decide something in the morning

[Facebones]

still 2 scum, still 2 PRs
7 people, so MyLo at 5 people after today assuming a mislim
and, y’know, you know the saying, expect the worst so that no matter what you’re not disappointed
or something like that

What if anything does this mean?

[Val89]

Welcome Vulture.

First, I want to note that, with your vote, it appears to me Thynhith is now at an unannouced E-1, which I do not like. Can you explain why you didn't annouce you were putting him at hammer range?

I don't want anyone coming along and hammering Thyn and then claiming they didn't realise that was the situation, so consider this post fair warning that

Thynhith is now at E-1.

I stand by my earlier thoughts that, given competing wagons between two slots that were basically null D1, I would rather lim the one that made pretty scummy postings D2 over the the slot that started to ping town D2, but I recognise that even with the deadline extension, there isn't an awful lot of time left. I won't allow my stubboness on the issue to result in a no-lim, but I won't be voting Thyn unless something comes up over the next few hours that makes clear I am wrong, or a no-lim appears to be alternative.

Happy scumday, btw, Facebones.

[Vulture]

Oh, hell.

I didn't announce it because I'm blind as a bat. I still stand by it though.

[Vulture]

I have the opposite opinion wrt how Thyn pinged for me (scum), so if you want to spell out why you think it's townpings instead feel free because that isn't meshing with me. I find his treatment of Facebones poor as town and outright malicious as scum. And given what I thought of him day one (the word "keen" in my notes stands out), I'm inclined to think Thyn's trying for a miselim.

[Thynhith]

Thank you for the reminder, Val. Hadn't noticed I was on E-1. Choo choo, my train's been boarded so damn fast. And by the scummiest characters in town, no less. This is looking a lot like a speedwagon to me, and I'm so very concerned with it.

I don't have a null read on FB, he's just 'middle of the pack' for me. Scumlean if you want to split hairs but not as scummy IMO as you or Thyn as of their recent posting. The reasoning for that is that I feel they're setting up for a FB -> Spangled flip which really bothered me at the time, and then trying to nitpick and jab at FB today.

@Vulture I find it astonishing you could find FB null, and find my treatment of him poor. Which of my recent postings look scummy? This day I did my post to question and FB and did not find his response townie in the slightest. Your analysis seems more like a facade to swiftly mislim anyone to save your partner.

I'm so far in the camp that it isn't enough to justify that read that I consider that response suspicious in itself, but I acknowledge that other people do look for different things, and have different thresholds, when making their reads. As such, I would feel happier if other players could at least give some indication as to where they fall on that scale.

It is important because I think that a scum!Spangled was TMIing Facebones as town there, rather than TRing his buddy, so I wouldn't support a Facebones wagon unless and until I saw a Spangled flip - I don't think I get any information from the other way around. If, one the other hand, I can be convinced that I might be wrong on this issue, and that TR was in the reasonable range of responses to that ISO, then the possibility of a town!Spangled changes that calculus.

I'm not quite sure I understand this. I'd be in favour of limming FB today, and considering Spangled for D3. Behaviour-wise, there is a much stronger argument to be made for scum!FB and with spangled's activeness, it will be easy to pick out any scumplays. You're saying you wouldn't get any information if FB flipped first, but why is that? If he flipped green that would exonerate spangled's "dodgy" read and we'll have rid ourselves of the high chance of scum!FB. If he flipped red we'll get rid of scum, I'm not sure what we have to lose here.

You didn't even say what you disliked about it, but I'll save you the effort. I was simply discussing with Val the merits of limming FB first or Spangled first. Unless you can put some weight and effort behind your reads, I'm ignoring them.

FoS Vulture

[schadd_]

a die will usually land on a 5 or a 6 when rolled

vote count 2.5

Thynhith (3):

MargotRosa, Facebones, Vulture

Facebones (2):

DArby, Thynhith

not voting (2):

Spangled, Val89

with 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate. day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-18 15:00:00)

(less than a day!)

[Thynhith]

@Val and Spangled

We have very little time now. Facebones has responded with extraordinary scuminess when questioned today and failed to give weighty reads and lurked throughout the entirety of D1. Get on his wagon now.

Scum is trying to force you to elim me or nolim - don't let them.

Doing nothing atp is the most anti-town thing you can do. My wagoners are trying to shade my last posts as scummy. You know how many scumtells FB has dropped. Would you rather have him or me in MyLo? We only need two votes, please get on him now.

[Thynhith]

Oh, hell.

I didn't announce it because I'm blind as a bat. I still stand by it though.

Oh, really? You stand by ignoring scumtells and lurking and obvious defensiveness, and stand by limming someone with hours left on the clock by pure speculation on their last posts? Well you do you.

[Vulture]

Thank you for the reminder, Val. Hadn't noticed I was on E-1. Choo choo, my train's been boarded so damn fast. And by the scummiest characters in town, no less. This is looking a lot like a speedwagon to me, and I'm so very concerned with it.

I don't have a null read on FB, he's just 'middle of the pack' for me. Scumlean if you want to split hairs but not as scummy IMO as you or Thyn as of their recent posting. The reasoning for that is that I feel they're setting up for a FB -> Spangled flip which really bothered me at the time, and then trying to nitpick and jab at FB today.

@Vulture I find it astonishing you could find FB null, and find my treatment of him poor. Which of my recent postings look scummy? This day I did my post to question and FB and did not find his response townie in the slightest. Your analysis seems more like a facade to swiftly mislim anyone to save your partner.

Do you see the part of that reply you just quoted where I said FB was explicitly a scumlean for me? I've already went over that it's not null, but I find people below him.

Furthermore, I've already laid out what I dislike about you.

I went out of my way to quote several posts to explain why I dislike your recent tone; you are either intentionally ignoring these points to slander me, or you're not paying attention.

Either way, this is not engaging in a towny way.

I'm so far in the camp that it isn't enough to justify that read that I consider that response suspicious in itself, but I acknowledge that other people do look for different things, and have different thresholds, when making their reads. As such, I would feel happier if other players could at least give some indication as to where they fall on that scale.

It is important because I think that a scum!Spangled was TMIing Facebones as town there, rather than TRing his buddy, so I wouldn't support a Facebones wagon unless and until I saw a Spangled flip - I don't think I get any information from the other way around. If, one the other hand, I can be convinced that I might be wrong on this issue, and that TR was in the reasonable range of responses to that ISO, then the possibility of a town!Spangled changes that calculus.

I'm not quite sure I understand this. I'd be in favour of limming FB today, and considering Spangled for D3. Behaviour-wise, there is a much stronger argument to be made for scum!FB and with spangled's activeness, it will be easy to pick out any scumplays. You're saying you wouldn't get any information if FB flipped first, but why is that? If he flipped green that would exonerate spangled's "dodgy" read and we'll have rid ourselves of the high chance of scum!FB. If he flipped red we'll get rid of scum, I'm not sure what we have to lose here.

You didn't even say what you disliked about it, but I'll save you the effort. I was simply discussing with Val the merits of limming FB first or Spangled first. Unless you can put some weight and effort behind your reads, I'm ignoring them.

FoS Vulture

I have already stated what I disliked, as listed above, but AGAIN: I find it disconcerting how aggressively you're trying to push through Facebones today, compared to how unsure you were before. You have latched onto Facebones because Facebones is Easy Pickings (tm). You have framed him as an ideal elim

even if he is town

in a game where, if he is? Tomorrow becomes ELO because of that. You're showing carelessness.

[Vulture]

Oh, hell.

I didn't announce it because I'm blind as a bat. I still stand by it though.

Oh, really? You stand by ignoring scumtells and lurking and obvious defensiveness, and stand by limming someone with hours left on the clock by pure speculation on their last posts? Well you do you.

It's incredibly funny how you try to frame me elimming you as 'speculation' when me voting anyone is speculation.

Pray tell, how do you distinguish your interpretation of Facebones as fact, while mine is just speculation?

[Thynhith]

Do you see the part of that reply you just quoted where I said FB was explicitly a scumlean for me? I've already went over that it's not null, but I find people below him.

Furthermore, I've already laid out what I dislike about you. I went out of my way to quote several posts to explain why I dislike your recent tone; you are either intentionally ignoring these points to slander me, or you're not paying attention. Either way, this is not engaging in a towny way.

I have already stated what I disliked, as listed above, but AGAIN: I find it disconcerting how aggressively you're trying to push through Facebones today, compared to how unsure you were before. You have latched onto Facebones because Facebones is Easy Pickings (tm). You have framed him as an ideal elim

even if he is town

in a game where, if he is? Tomorrow becomes ELO because of that. You're showing carelessness.

Calm down with the font there. All you've done is quote a wall of posts that indicate truthfully - before I was unsure of FB, now I am. Perhaps you should have been less careless in your reread. It's quite clear that before, if FB was considered null, his recent posting have only shown him to be extremely scummy. That is why I am so confident now about pushing him. He's the best candidate for elimination, because he has only progressively become more scummy D2.

I am framing your analysis of my posts as mere speculation, because it hinges on the fact that before I was less confident of FB, and now I am. Very flimsy to be limming someone on. FB has consistently lurked through D1, given so many evasive and defensive answers and claimed several times his lurking was a legitimate strategy, one that yielded nothing in terms of reads. This is far more than mere speculation, which is why your vote on me looks very poor. Now take another look at Facebone's ISO please, and decide if you want to mislim me.

[Spangled]

there are 15 hours left
VOTE: Facebones

this boils down to, I don’t think Thyn is scum
their tone in the last few posts doesn’t sound great, I agree, but when I read the posts again it just feels like sheer, complete newbie defensiveness
not AI at all, to my mind

whereas I hate FB’s hop-on to Thyn’s wagon, and I think we’re all ignoring how he’s strayed from his town meta, like Thyn pointed out earlier, and how it makes sense for him to have killed Galron.

[Spangled]

Facebones is E-1

Thyn, Vulture, you’re both getting angry, and passive aggressive, the word choice sarcastic and combative
be calm, I beg of you

[Spangled]

still 2 scum, still 2 PRs
7 people, so MyLo at 5 people after today assuming a mislim
and, y’know, you know the saying, expect the worst so that no matter what you’re not disappointed
or something like that

What if anything does this mean?

I’m just trying to get the gamestate clear in my head ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
happy scumday, too

[Spangled]

@Margot I see you’re around in another game, could you explain your Thyn read?
and what you think of Facebones, at this point?

[Facebones]

Choo choo, my train's been boarded so damn fast. And by the scummiest characters in town, no less.

Didn't you chastise me for thinking the people who were on my wagon were scummy before and my reads of them were shallow?
This is very hypocritical

[Facebones]

how it makes sense for him to have killed Galron.

I must've missed this, who was saying it makes sense for me to have killed Galron?
Because I assure you, I did not, and whoever said it makes sense is spreading forth vicious lies and slander

[Facebones]

one that yielded nothing in terms of reads.

It gave me some reads, if you think they're terrible then that's on you

Spangled, you don't think Thyn is scum, nor do you think Val, Margot or Vulture are scum, therefore the scum pair is most likely DArby and myself?
Do you honestly believe that?

[Thynhith]

Choo choo, my train's been boarded so damn fast. And by the scummiest characters in town, no less.

Didn't you chastise me for thinking the people who were on my wagon were scummy before and my reads of them were shallow?
This is very hypocritical

Hardly hypocritical. I was scumleaning you and Roden's slot long before you got on my train, while you never scumread Darby and Margot until that post. And yes, the fact that you scumread them for a belief and backtracking I do find to be shallow.