Micro 1029: 8-Ball (but with Wolves) Game Over

[Something_Smart]

Oh, here's a better question.

Bingle, can you provide some examples of you doing similar things to the Wisdom hammer?

That's intentionally left vague. The hammer seemed out of character for you, and there's a reason I called it a scumclaim.

[Something_Smart]

And House, please knock it off. You joined the game, you committed to playing it until the end. Not until you've decided you should no longer have to play it.

[Something_Smart]

And I'm going to underscore that it was

your

erratic behavior that's the reason I didn't just hammer Bingle and move on with my life. Everything you did yesterday looks transparently like an attempt to score a mis-execution on me or Bingle. And this doesn't erase what happened in earlier days to make Bingle scummy and you towny, but it does complicate it.

[Save The Dragons]

going to be V/LA from the 19th to the 25th

[Bingle]

Bingle, can you provide some examples of you doing similar things to the Wisdom hammer?

Not off the top of my head. I can point at things that are similar in one way or another, but I’d have to do a deep dive to look for similarities.

If you’d like me to, say so, but it’s definitely atypical of both my scum and townplay.

[Something_Smart]

I mostly just don't understand the town motivation for it at all.

[Bingle]

Does anyone want to talk about how Bingle asked Wisdom a question, then hammered before getting an answer?

Frustration. It’s not like that was the first time I’d asked why people were townreading duck, and as far as I can tell the answer has been pretty much “Deal with it” with absolutely no consideration of my arguments.

Me, when questioned about why I made that post the day after.

I was annoyed by the complete lack of engagement with what seemed to me to be an obvious scumcase on duck and the repeated insistence despite, you know, everything I'd posted that I was lockscumming Ali/House. House, imagine and Taly were tunneling on Wis because of what felt like dumb reasons, although honestly I can't remember what they were, and I was hoping that flipping Wis would make it possible to get traction on the duck case.

Compare, why would scum me be rushing to eliminate the eightball in return for my own lim? I'd posted quite a bit while Wisdom was at E-1, but I didn't decide to 'scumclaim' until after taking the time to explain why I was town, and indeed, convincing MT of it? House had just said he thought I was town, MT had just unvoted me, and I wouldn't actually be worried that the only other person in the thread who'd expressed suspicion of me (imagine) would seriously support my elimination over Wisdom's if I were scum with him.

[Something_Smart]

How likely did you think it was that Wisdom was the 8-ball?

You were concerned about it on D1 when a few people mentioned him as a possible execution target. But on D2 after he got a full-fledged wagon you didn't seem that worried...

[Bingle]

At the point of the hammer? Unlikely. I took literally everyone in the thread (including wisdom) prodding me for thinking he might be as an indication he wasn’t.

It’s why I was willing to make that trade. In hindsight, that was really dumb, because of course scum is going to try to convince people that the eight ball isn’t the eightball, but hindsight is 20/20.

[Bingle]

Actually looking back it was house and wisdom who convinced me wis wasn’t 8 ball. Why are you townreading house’s early play again?

[Bingle]

I mostly just don't understand the town motivation for it at all.

As an attempt to help you see my headspace around that time: my previous game I was shittunneled for a “scum slip” that was literally the town role pm I was sent to the point where I was frustrated enough to replace out for a lack of fun in a game for the first time ever.

In this game, ducks was openly avoiding answering every question directed his way, and my case on him for that was receiving less attention than him literally editing one of my posts to say something else and then calling it a scum slip. Ali’s response to me asking to engage over the read was literally replacing out. Taly voted him for like a page and then invited with the reasoning of “I’d like to see his answers to the questions.” Wisdom said he was locktowning him, with no additional reasoning. House’s stated reasoning for townreading him was “You’re not gonna like the answer.”

I asked Wisdom to explain his duck read, and then accumulated frustration kicked in and I hammered. Was it dumb? Sure. But I can’t exactly go back and fix it now, can I?

Nor was it a scum move: if I had been scum there, I wasn’t actually in a bad place. I had a reasonable tunnel on someone that was largely being ignored and the thread seemed determined to vote off the guy who turned out to be the eightball with or without my input. The main person suspecting me had just turned that around, and the only other people suspecting me were the person steadfastly refusing to engage with anyone and the person who was at e-1 for the 3rd(?) time that day.

[Something_Smart]

At the point of the hammer? Unlikely. I took literally everyone in the thread (including wisdom) prodding me for thinking he might be as an indication he wasn’t.

People prodded you for thinking he might be on D1. Obviously it would be totally different on D2.

[Bingle]

All I can offer is what I thought at the time. My impression was that everyone but me and Taly thought wisdom being an eightball was ridiculous, and so would have been unlikely to 8ball wis. I know now that I was wrong, but that doesn’t change what I thought then.

[Something_Smart]

Nor was it a scum move: if I had been scum there, I wasn’t actually in a bad place.

The thing is, you don't need to be in a bad place for it to be worth it. If you 8-ball yourself then it's actually pretty smooth sailing-- ideally you just get executed, but even if you don't, imaginality really wasn't under much pressure and it wouldn't seem that hard to vote out tw + the afk slot.

I mean you made it to F3 on the basis of 8-ball speculation so like, clearly it wasn't necessarily suicidal.

[Something_Smart]

Yeah, sorry, I'm not convinced by any of that.

I can see a world where you are town-- as I said, whoever is town here did play a pretty bad game. But MT had House as solidly town and you solidly scum, and both Wisdom and tw had you lower at the time of their deaths, and House's D4 play doesn't make a ton of sense as any alignment (though it does make more sense as scum). If you really hammered Wisdom without worrying about whether he could be 8-ball after you were that scared of it the day before, I mean... I don't know what to tell you. Also, you just going dead silent once we started locking you as scum is really really not the right move if you're actually town.

VOTE: Bingle

[Save The Dragons]

You'll have to wait for the flip

[Save The Dragons]

On the road today will try to get to this tonight if I can

[Save The Dragons]

Vote Count 5.2

2 Bingle (House, Something_Smart)
1 House (Bingle)

Not voting:

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to yeet

Flip incoming...

[Save The Dragons]

Thanks for your patience!

Bingle was

Spoiler:

Werewolf Goon

Town wins![/spoiler]

[/b]

[the worst]

YAS KING SS

[Wisdom]

gg

[Something_Smart]

Sorry for dragging it out. I really wanted to drop the Occam's razor hammer on Bingle immediately but I had a hard time silencing the doubts about House. At least I didn't let paranoia talk me out of a solved game.

[the worst]

you did great. <3

[imaginality]

Gg. Good effort Bingle on the final day there. Well played SS for not succumbing to paranoia!

Thanks STD for running the game, it's an interesting set up, I think I like it.

That said, D1 and D2 of this game were kind of junk. Though that was good for me and Bingle.

I think the game swung on two things in particular:

1. Bingle and I were both extremely sure he would get slammed for his hammer on Wisdom 8-ball. The fact he wasn't made my push on him stand out as preplanned which MT picked up on. If we'd realised he wouldn't get quick-limmed for it we would've 8-balled SS or the worst that day and quite possibly won that day.

2. MT really turned this round singlehandedly, firstly with her calling me out D3 for going after 8-balls, but also particularly D4 when she correctly saw me and SS as anti-partnered. I could see the way things were going it was looking likely we'd elim Bingle D4 and then elim me D5, so I tried to shake it up by making it me vs SS D4 and hoping House bought it, while also trying to give room for some {House, me} suspicion if I got limmed.

I feel like I could've done a better job with my posts around that time. And maybe I should've just bussed Bingle and hoped to win with an SS 8-ball lim D5. I feel like the way MT was playing though, that seemed increasingly less likely.

That said, it almost worked! We were one post from winning when House voted SS, but Bingle didn't see that in time... So close, argh!

I'm glad I wasn't town, the way House played this game seemed not great for town's pulse rates or emotional equanimity.

Oh, funny thing with my #265 (where I switched from Wisdom to Ali), I hadn't decided whether to post that or not. I'd drafted it and was previewing it while deciding if it was a good idea or not, when the bus I was on went over a bump and I clicked submit instead of preview lol

[Something_Smart]

Also damn my reads upon replacing in really were perfect. I'm pretty happy about that, even if I didn't tell anyone what they were for half the day