Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over

[T3]

No. Go look at my meta tell.

[Dwlee99]

Cringe

[Gamma Emerald]

Then maybe stop posting everything with much confidence, bc later when some ppl flip red/green, I will elim those, who have more and bigger mistakes.

this feels like an actual townie with principles, as opposed to scum twisting principles
this is kinda just a viberead but I'm fine having vibereads
While I don't think having bad reads is entirely a scumtell I appreciate Wiki's attempt to be firm about it

Not very useful principle though. Mafia has perfect reads after all.

It is very useful. It prevents townies from playing like idiots. Some caution is not unnecessary. Remember all your bad games and think what was done wrong and why. There is no need in fast decisions.

these are both interesting takes. Just because the mafia have perfect knowledge of the game doesn't mean they're incentivized to represent that truthfully (also Selynee not groupscum if there's a traitor lmao). I also don't feel like threatening people on their reads is going to actually improve their read quality all that much. In fact, I'd say it'd make them more likely to push bad reads they're more confident on.

[geraintm]

7 pages already!

This game is going to be too much.





[Space left intentionally blank to crumb]

[Wiki]

Dwlee is playing very strongly towards his town meta. Once he has more posts I’ll see if he exhibited the tell.

I have a feeling that he tries to pocket Andre, if they are not together.

Andre votes Dwlee.
Dwlee votes Ico (for 2 first posts?).
Andre says Datisi and A50 are scums, Ico is town.
Dwlee says that his opinion is opposite, so Andre can be a scum.
Then Dwlee immediately changes his opinion: Ico is a townie, Datisi is a scum. Andre is town too for him, just logics. He has read 3 pages in short time to change all of it. He had no reason to tr Andre so fast with so opposite opinion, Andre should be very suspicious for him.

What does it look like? I think this can be Dwlee pocketing Andre. He had no good reasons at all to make such conclusions so fast. It doesnt matter Andre was right or not. Though Andre said Dwlee is town after all...

I recommend to reread this conversation, the timings are interesting. From page 3, post #69.

[Wiki]

Or maybe...
If Ico is a scum with Dwlee...
Andre votes Dwlee. Dwlee decides to bus his partner Ico. But after that Andre says Ico is a townie and it seems that he doesn't think DW is a scum, so DW is so glad to support Andre's wrong opinion...

However she have the same thoughts and feelings as in this post, so she can be a townie:

basicly all of dwlee's posts make me go all

[Wiki]

However she have the same thoughts and feelings as in this post, so she can be a townie

Not she have, but I have the same feelings

[Andresvmb]

And DW is pursuing everyone aggressively so far, with some pointed questions, which is in my book Town indicative.

I'm not sure that it was agressive enough with his fast changing votes. He can do his little attacks on purpose, it can be not sincere. It is also not so dangerous for him on this stage.

How aggressive do you want someone to be in the first five pages? There’s a reason I said it was Town indicative and didn’t say DW is definitely Town. Like I said, they’re good Scum so that one is tougher.

[Andresvmb]

At least he is not a town's important role with such behaviour and confidence.
In the best case scenario he is just a ruiner. We dont need him to win, he can help scums to win.

This btw is a terrible assumption. And what makes you think that you can so easily determine that DW is bad Town? How many games have you played around here? This has to be an alt right?

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee is playing very strongly towards his town meta. Once he has more posts I’ll see if he exhibited the tell.

I have a feeling that he tries to pocket Andre, if they are not together.

Andre votes Dwlee.
Dwlee votes Ico (for 2 first posts?).
Andre says Datisi and A50 are scums, Ico is town.
Dwlee says that his opinion is opposite, so Andre can be a scum.
Then Dwlee immediately changes his opinion: Ico is a townie, Datisi is a scum. Andre is town too for him, just logics. He has read 3 pages in short time to change all of it. He had no reason to tr Andre so fast with so opposite opinion, Andre should be very suspicious for him.

What does it look like? I think this can be Dwlee pocketing Andre. He had no good reasons at all to make such conclusions so fast. It doesnt matter Andre was right or not. Though Andre said Dwlee is town after all...

I recommend to reread this conversation, the timings are interesting. From page 3, post #69.

Is this a read based on me being able to read fast

[Dwlee99]

Also can people please respect my signature, thanks

[Andresvmb]

Then maybe stop posting everything with much confidence, bc later when some ppl flip red/green, I will elim those, who have more and bigger mistakes.

this feels like an actual townie with principles, as opposed to scum twisting principles
this is kinda just a viberead but I'm fine having vibereads
While I don't think having bad reads is entirely a scumtell I appreciate Wiki's attempt to be firm about it

Not very useful principle though. Mafia has perfect reads after all.

It is very useful. It prevents townies from playing like idiots. Some caution is not unnecessary. Remember all your bad games and think what was done wrong and why. There is no need in fast decisions.

As far as I can tell this is your first game on this forum. You haven’t declared whether you’re an alt, so I’m going to assume you’re not. So how much experience do you have?

I don’t disagree with your assumption that Town tend to play like idiots btw. That’s more often than not the case. What I would challenge, or ask you to perhaps think about, is how you square that with the idea that the players that make the most or biggest mistakes are most likely to be Scum. I am finding that it’s a terrible way of going about finding Scum around here.

[Wiki]

I have enough experience in this game.

[Andresvmb]

I have enough experience in this game.

This isn’t an answer.

[Wiki]

Dozens of games, if you are so interested.

[Wiki]

Maybe hundreds.

[Andresvmb]

Dozens of games, if you are so interested.

Lots of vague answers.

Okay, fine. I’ll assume you’re experienced but I won’t ask you to point to other games you’ve played in because it’s clear you don’t want to share that, which means you want to be viewed purely through your play in this game. Though I can accept that, it still leaves open the question as to why you’re so happy to discredit DW’s skills as Town when from my personal experience, they’re definitely better than average.

[Datisi]

Wiki's meh. I don't know him or his playstyle. Found his responses to you with the 'i can' and the 'no' funny actually :p

not what i was aiming at. my issue with his slot was that he was apparently "checking" whether i was truthful in my vla declaration. that by itself is like, weird, because regardless of my alignment i wouldn't lie about irl circumstances, and i think that's not a controversial take with most people. so i'm assuming the idea was that if i'm lying about vla, i'd be scum, which ??? why would i lie about being vla

and the fact he didn't respond to me questioning that made me think he realized it doesn't quite *make sense* so he decided to ignore me

i did skim a bit and see he's posted more since this so i'm expecting my read will get updated but i wanted to get this out anyway

[Selynee]

Or maybe...
If Ico is a scum with Dwlee...
Andre votes Dwlee. Dwlee decides to bus his partner Ico. But after that Andre says Ico is a townie and it seems that he doesn't think DW is a scum, so DW is so glad to support Andre's wrong opinion...

However she have the same thoughts and feelings as in this post, so she can be a townie:

basicly all of dwlee's posts make me go all

This is making me feel better about you but this theory seems a bit far fetched. First vote of Andre was basically RV. Doubt Dwelee got so scared of a RV that they decided to bus their partner cuz of this.

[Dwlee99]

Dozens of games, if you are so interested.

Lots of vague answers.

Okay, fine. I’ll assume you’re experienced but I won’t ask you to point to other games you’ve played in because it’s clear you don’t want to share that, which means you want to be viewed purely through your play in this game. Though I can accept that, it still leaves open the question as to why you’re so happy to discredit DW’s skills as Town when from my personal experience, they’re definitely better than average.

Wow Andres you're flattering me

[Wiki]

They can bus not because of this, just as rvs. The point is how fast they(Dwlee) have changed their mind and with what reasons... This is strange.

[Andresvmb]

Dozens of games, if you are so interested.

Lots of vague answers.

Okay, fine. I’ll assume you’re experienced but I won’t ask you to point to other games you’ve played in because it’s clear you don’t want to share that, which means you want to be viewed purely through your play in this game. Though I can accept that, it still leaves open the question as to why you’re so happy to discredit DW’s skills as Town when from my personal experience, they’re definitely better than average.

Wow Andres you're flattering me

If you care about my opinion it means you don’t think I’m half bad. I suppose I’ll take the compliment too.

[Dwlee99]

They can bus not because of this, just as rvs. The point is how fast they(Dwlee) have changed their mind and with what reasons... This is strange.

When info is low additional info can be overpowering

[Andresvmb]

andres also feels like town on like page 4

Gamma have you TR me this early before? As Scum you definitely thought me being active early was “strange” and could be used to push me. I take it you’ve changed your mind about my activity being a tell either way?

[Datisi]

Datisi, come fight me. Convince me you’re not Scum and I’m wrong.

let's fucking go mate

oh holy shit i almost missed my bus stop because i was staring at my phone

anyway. the reason why i started townreading ico there was because it didn't strike me as a response scum!ico would make there. you would need some context for this, but - the last two games ico and i played, he was scum and i was town, and in both of those games i got an accurate scumread on him within the first couple pages. the last game (2224 i think) i ended up getting him yeeted day 1, because he reacted way too seriously to my push, got utterly defensive, then tried to placate me and work with me.

his response here, basically going "no lol fuck u i'm not working with you" is (1) town indicative because it appears he doesn't give a shit about my pressure and isn't trying to work with me (granted, this is not unfakeable), but (2) it also showed me that ico isn't falling for my early push. which means that my fake pressure for the sake of reading him is not going to work, and i might as well try to work with him by questioning him about his game thoughts and whatnot.

this is obviously self-meta, but this isn't how scum!me interacts with town!ico. i'd probably either use my "i know how to read ico guys!!" and ez townread him and then kill him, or i'd properly scumread him. like i know this sorta read progression is (1) bound to get attention and (2) ico won't fall for it. but also like this is semi-checkable so if you feel like doing homework then be my guest.

way too many pedits, dinner time for me now, be back later. i have q's for dwlee regarding saying they think i'm town then voting me, but i'd like to properly read everything first.