Newbie 2081 | Game Over

[hops]

Wouldn't a PR getting NK still be a bad outcome for town?

[MegAzumarill]

It's still a better outcome than losing tempo by no elimination

Also there's always the chance that a protective exists and can protect said PR. We lose the PR's abilities but gain a BPIC in that case. (If we have doctor scum will rb the cop, and if we have jk it roleblocks the PR as well.)

[Jake The Wolfie]

Clearly, if we target a player who has a Power Role, the obvious conclusion is to CFD onto Not_Maifa

[MegAzumarill]

Clearly, if we target a player who has a Power Role, the obvious conclusion is to CFD onto Not_Maifa

This is a completely fair assessment.

If we run someone up as a PR with no CC, we still eliminate someone, just not that person

[catboi]

Don't really care for the readslist from DTX in 174 though that may be my own personal bias against unsupprted readslists. I

do

think the immediate re-evaluation and second guessing in 177 is a good look, and a flourish I think an inexperienced scum player would be unlikely to come up with. The reasoning in 185 is

okay

, I think. Nothing necessarily earthshaking but in some way alleviates my concern that Taco hasn't had much in the way of thoughts on the game.

I like the line of thought from Greeting in 188 about testing Taco to see if he was just copying him. To me that feels like a really towny line of thinking. I think in general the wall in that post shows a decent attempt at evaluating the game, I didn't thinl his response to being pushed to E-1 early was scummy, probably a townlean.

I'm not really sure what to make of Jake's turn toward logic pedantry in response to being attacked. In a way I like what he's doing because when I'm not flailing irrationally I like to question people attacking me to get them to clarify their thinking, see if they're being genuine and possibly get them to rethink faulty reasoning. But it's a really easy fallback as mafia and I'm partly worried he's just doing it to deflect here. I kind of like 193 in the seizing on a small slightly contradictory thing. I'd like it more if Jake was seemingly directing it in some way toward finding a scumread, but...blah. I just don't know.


For what it's worth, while it can be useful to look at and consider who someone's teammate could b, as this can lead to clearing someone if they just don't plausibly have a partner, I try to emphasize every game that it's not good to get too caught up in pre-flip associations and hunting for teams, especially on day 1, as that can often lead down false paths. Townies will often have incidental associations between each other that might look bad, and I've seen new players in multiple games go down rabbit holes of thinking they had a team found that led them astray. It's not a good way to scumhunt. I don't like that line of defense from Jake.

[catboi]

I'm a bit too busy to sort out my hunch right now, but I was feeling that there is at least one SE on the scumteam. I just feel like we'd see firmer tells from a two newbscum team. I also have the suspicion that one of the newbies are waiting for a busy SE scum to approve their plans before saying anything, but since so many newbies are being quiet I'm not sure if I can narrow down the pool of suspects.

I should say that while from your POV it is mathematically most likely that the team is one SE/one newbie, since there are 4 of each, alignments are randomly distributed and this is a dangerous line of thinking to get caught up in. Oftentimes on Day 1 you're just not going to have strong leads and scum aren't going to announce their presence to the game thread. The idea about newbies being quiet also feels a bit out of place, while kenny and binatog haven't said much, the rest of you are all decently talkative. Best to just forget the status tags and evaluate everyone based on their content in the game so far.

[Jake The Wolfie]

For what it's worth, while it can be useful to look at and consider who someone's teammate could b, as this can lead to clearing someone if they just don't plausibly have a partner, I try to emphasize every game that it's not good to get too caught up in pre-flip associations and hunting for teams, especially on day 1, as that can often lead down false paths. Townies will often have incidental associations between each other that might look bad, and I've seen new players in multiple games go down rabbit holes of thinking they had a team found that led them astray. It's not a good way to scumhunt. I don't like that line of defense from Jake.

It may not be a good way to scumhunt, but so far there has been little substance to why Greeting has scumread me. I find it strange that he wouldn't give a good argument for coming out at me.
I'm not saying that Greeting has to preflip me as scum in order to read the rest of the game, but I am saying that if he won't give a strong argument to scumread me, then they should at least point to who my potential partners would be should I be scum.
Greeting hasn't really said why he scumreads me, only that he scumreads me. It's not really riveting evidence towards me being scum, just someone's opinion. If Greeting ever decides to case me, then I would have something to argue against, but for right now all I have to go off of is that they scumread me for unknown or even nonexistent reasons.

[catboi]

VOTE: kennyk

I like hops a lot. Although a lot of people were quick to shoot down her theory about Jake being late to confirm, and I'm not on board with the reasoning, I don't think it's the type of theory a newbie scum player comes up with. Further posts have all had that good scumhunting energy, trying to move things forward, coming up with ideas, examining players, just looks like she's trying to solve the game. Easy townread there, I think.

I like Greeting as well although it's more of a soft lean than a full-on townread. Wouldn't support eliminating him but can't back it with full confidence.

Feelings on DaTacoX are even more slight but enough toward the good side based on recent posts.


I went back to review kenny and it feels like he's reactive and mostly responding to things with factual statements. He's too guarded, hasn't had any real suspects. In the previous game I was briefly with him in, despite not playing for over a decade, he was quick to out theories and suspect people just for wagon votes in RVS and the like, it felt like there was real momentum from him. Here, I get none of that in anything he's said, and even if the game started somewhat slow, it feels as though he's struggling to form an opinion on

anything

, and I think in all likelihood it's because he's mafia here and is afraid of making waves.

[catboi]

Greeting hasn't really said why he scumreads me, only that he scumreads me. It's not really riveting evidence towards me being scum, just someone's opinion. If Greeting ever decides to case me, then I would have something to argue against, but for right now all I have to go off of is that they scumread me for unknown or even nonexistent reasons.

Do you think Greeting is scum pushing you as an elimination, then?

[Jake The Wolfie]

Greeting hasn't really said why he scumreads me, only that he scumreads me. It's not really riveting evidence towards me being scum, just someone's opinion. If Greeting ever decides to case me, then I would have something to argue against, but for right now all I have to go off of is that they scumread me for unknown or even nonexistent reasons.

Do you think Greeting is scum pushing you as an elimination, then?

I don't think that Greeting is necessarily scum here, but I would need to see more from him before I decided.

[catboi]

Decent answer.

[Jake The Wolfie]

We should probably start consolidating votes soon. Day ends in around 2 and a half days.

[MegAzumarill]

Binatog and Greeting lims I would like

Don't want a hops lim

rest is fine, but would prefer one of the top 2

[kennyk]

VOTE: kennyk

I like hops a lot. Although a lot of people were quick to shoot down her theory about Jake being late to confirm, and I'm not on board with the reasoning, I don't think it's the type of theory a newbie scum player comes up with. Further posts have all had that good scumhunting energy, trying to move things forward, coming up with ideas, examining players, just looks like she's trying to solve the game. Easy townread there, I think.

I like Greeting as well although it's more of a soft lean than a full-on townread. Wouldn't support eliminating him but can't back it with full confidence.

Feelings on DaTacoX are even more slight but enough toward the good side based on recent posts.


I went back to review kenny and it feels like he's reactive and mostly responding to things with factual statements. He's too guarded, hasn't had any real suspects. In the previous game I was briefly with him in, despite not playing for over a decade, he was quick to out theories and suspect people just for wagon votes in RVS and the like, it felt like there was real momentum from him. Here, I get none of that in anything he's said, and even if the game started somewhat slow, it feels as though he's struggling to form an opinion on

anything

, and I think in all likelihood it's because he's mafia here and is afraid of making waves.

I reevaluated said game as well. And I guess I was a little bit over the top in the starting phase there. And there was way more happening in that game that got me to form theories.
But you are absolutely right about me struggling to get opinions on anything. So far I am really clueless on what's going on. All I can say is that scum is really good in hiding here (not that I was that good at scumhunting in my other games).

[Not_Mafia]

It's Greeting/catboi

[Greeting]

It is always right to consider who might be the second scum. But one has to also consider that the two scum players might not have acted obviously connected. If they coordinate very carefully they might leave no visibal connection whatsoever. This is especially true in day one where there is not much evidence in any direction.

As it is highly unlikely to identify both scum players on day one and vote one of them out by majority, I won`t condemn someone who votes someone else out but has no obvious scum partner at hand. And if I read everyones reads correctly, there are not many townreads overall. So there are always many possible scum-partners around.

I might not agree with Greetings read on Jake and the consequences he makes out of them, I agree with him in taking one step at a time.

And as there seems to be a wagon building on Jake with me sitting in the front row, I would like to remove my RVS vote:

UNVOTE: Jake

Do you have a better candidate to vote out? If the answer is yes then whom and why? If the answer is no, then what would be the most ideal outcome of Day One in your opinion?

No, I don't have any better candidate. The most ideal outcome of day one would of course be a scum elim (most prefered the roleblocker or the rolecop, if the setup has one of them in it). But the chances to get that result are at about 22 % (if I did the math right).

Then why are you choosing to unvote without picking a different candidate?

If you’re talking percentages then I gather that you have no suspects and rely only on mathematics? Correct me if I’m wrong. If that is true then why aren’t you choosing a candidate at random?

While I don’t have an issue with you disagreeing to vote out Jake, I don’t like the unvote when stuff got a bit heated. Sounds like you don’t want to get your hands dirty with a possible miselim.

[MegAzumarill]

You are implying they should try to vote out someone they don't eant to???

[Jake The Wolfie]

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

[Greeting]

You are implying they should try to vote out someone they don't eant to???

I am implying that on Day One it's better to vote someone out rather than no one. A no elim vote towards the end of Day One is kind of washing your hands off any potential decisions.

[MegAzumarill]

You are implying they should try to vote out someone they don't eant to???

I am implying that on Day One it's better to vote someone out rather than no one. A no elim vote towards the end of Day One is kind of washing your hands off any potential decisions.

Unvote =/= no elim vote

[Greeting]

I'm getting more suspicious of kennyk right now. I think that attempting to avoid any responsibility for a miselim is a scummy thing to do.

If Binatog is put at E-1 and the options are either hammer them, noelim or hammer someone who isn't Jake, N_M or kennyk, I will hammer.

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

Quoting you to confirm that I've seen your post and I will summarise my suspicions tomorrow.

[MegAzumarill]

I'm getting more suspicious of kennyk right now. I think that attempting to avoid any responsibility for a miselim is a scummy thing to do.

If Binatog is put at E-1 and the options are either hammer them, noelim or hammer someone who isn't Jake, N_M or kennyk, I will hammer.

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

Quoting you to confirm that I've seen your post and I will summarise my suspicions tomorrow.

What makes you think kennyk ever supported the jake wagon?
You seem to be saying the jake wagon is a mislim yet you still push them?

[Greeting]

I'm getting more suspicious of kennyk right now. I think that attempting to avoid any responsibility for a miselim is a scummy thing to do.

If Binatog is put at E-1 and the options are either hammer them, noelim or hammer someone who isn't Jake, N_M or kennyk, I will hammer.

Greeting, please lay out your case for why you think I am scum for everyone here.
I have a small feeling that you don't have one, but I also want to give you the benefit of the doubt in case you simply haven't had the time to make one yet because you weren't directed to give your case.

Quoting you to confirm that I've seen your post and I will summarise my suspicions tomorrow.

What makes you think kennyk ever supported the jake wagon?
You seem to be saying the jake wagon is a mislim yet you still push them?

What narrative are you trying to push now?

I don’t know if Jake is scum or not. I said that I think that there’s a good chance. There’s a chance he’s not scum too.

[MegAzumarill]

Answer the part about kenny too <

I'm saying I think you TMI'd about jake's alignment
VOTE: Greeting

[midwaybear]

Vote count 1.09

It is Day 1!
With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-10-23 07:35:00).

VC

Greeting [3]:

Jake The Wolfie, Not_Mafia, MegAzumarill

Jake The Wolfie [2]:

Greeting, DaTacoX

Not_Mafia [1]:

Binatog13

Binatog13 [1]:

hops

kennyk [1]:

catboi

Not Voting [1]:

kennyk

Mod Notes

•