MegAzumarill's Mini Normal Review, October 2021

[implosion]

I was wanting to moderate a mini normal game in the near future and wanted to get my setup reviewed for balance and normalcy.
I do not have a backup/co mod at the moment but plan to get one before I run it.

Spoiler: 13 player Setup

Vanilla Townie x6
Town Simple Doctor x1
Town Roaming Doctor x1
Town Combined Voyeur-Follower x1
Town Role Cop x1

Mafia Goon x1
Mafia One Shot Activated Ninja x1
Mafia Even Night Cop x1

Mafia has daytalk.
Deadlines 10 day 1/7 day 2+/2 day night/36 hr prod/24 hr replace

Spoiler: Role PMs

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Simple Doctor

.
Each night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will protect that player from a single kill that night. If your target is not a vanilla role your action will fail.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Roaming Doctor

.
Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, your target will be protected from 1 night kill that night. You may not attempt to target the same player more than one time per game.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Combined Voyeur-Follower

Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will learn what type of action that player performed at night. Additionally, you will learn what types of actions were performed on that player that night. The types of actions are Blocking, Jailkeeping, Protection, Miscellaneous, Kill, Role Investigation, Action Investigation.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Role Cop

.
Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will learn what role your target has.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Mafia Goon

.
Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Your teammates are PLAYER and PLAYER. You may talk to them here at any time: [link.]

You win if all non-Mafia players are dead and at least 1 Mafia aligned player is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Confirm your role by PM or by posting in your PT.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Mafia One-Shot Activated Ninja

.
Once per game, during the night, you may choose to not be detectable by tracker type and watcher type roles that night.
Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Your teammates are PLAYER and PLAYER. You may talk to them here at any time: [link.]

You win if all non-Mafia players are dead and at least 1 Mafia aligned player is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Confirm your role by PM or by posting in your PT.

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Mafia Even Night Cop

.
On Even Nights, you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action you will learn if your target is Mafia or Not Mafia.
Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Your teammates are PLAYER and PLAYER. You may talk to them here at any time: [link.]

You win if all non-Mafia players are dead and at least 1 Mafia aligned player is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Confirm your role by PM or by posting in your PT.

Spoiler: Thoughts on setup

- The idea of the setup is fairly simple, strong protectives and weak investigatives. It contains 2 doctors and 2 weak investigatives. Role Cop can detect 1 scum at minimum, and more if scum risks a fake-claim. The Follower-Voyeur can catch the scum doing the kill (if the ninja isn't used that night.) It can also help determine the setup, but will likely go awry with the mafia cop. Besides the doctor's gatedness, they aren't counterable by scum, which helps when the investigative roles aren't very effective at finding scum. I am willing on changing the setup but want to keep the general idea of double protectives + weak investigative.

Thank you in advance.

[implosion]

Primary: mastina
Secondary: Datisi

[MegAzumarill]

Ego
Don't really know how this goes
Wiki didn't have normal PMs for all the roles I wanted to use so PMs are probably a little off

[mastina]

Haven't looked at the role PMS yet, but setup-wise, this definitely feels at or near the mark. Will look in better detail later, but I like what you've built here!

[implosion]

Oh one note - I think 1-shot activated ninja should just be 1-shot ninja? one-shot ninja generally gets to pick the night it activates. It's a little weird because it's a passive so yes, you should be able to "activate" it but I think that's the typical formalism.

[Datisi]

i have two concerns. the first is that, in the (admittedly very unlikely scenario) where the ninja is the last scum member alive, gets followed on the night they activate, and get reported as clear, that's most likely going to be outright game-losing for town, and in an unfun way. there's ways to fix that, but maybe this is a feature and not a bug.

the other issue i see is that i'd say the rolecop is stronger in this setup than it first seems. the ninja is an obvious guilty, however the even night cop is a probable guilty as well. i say that because, while the rolecop is unlikely to out the cop if they get that result, the mafia cop is also very unlikely to trueclaim their role. because if they do so, they're expected to be giving results, and they're guaranteed to get under scrutiny for not getting nightkilled - so they probably won't claim it, which would make the rolecop realize they're scum.

overall i'd say it's slightly townsided, though i'm not sure since i'm probably not taking the double doc into the account properly - there's nonzero chance they counterclaim each other.

[MegAzumarill]

The first issue doesn't really seem like one. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume mafia has some sort of ninja ability especially when 2 mafia with no abilities to help counteract town power roles have flipped. This complemented with there not being a scum roleblocker as both investigative will be getting results each night.

Would making the role cop announcing help? Additionally the mafia cop could be limited shot in order to make the claim more plausible. (2 shot cop instead of even night?)

[Datisi]

as far as i recall, mafia ninjas in normals are very rare, and mafia ninjas that can produce a false innocent like that are even rarer. i'll leave the final call to mastina there, but i felt compelled to point it out.

depends if that's an issue you feel like you wanna change. i think making the rolecop announcing would help it, yeah. and i wouldn't change the even-night into a 2-shot, because a 2-shot cop is stronger, not weaker. (2-shot cop gets results on d2 and d3, even-night on d3 and d5.) would like to hear mastina's thoughts on how slapping on the announcing modifier affects the setup first though.

[mastina]

Generally speaking, I consider a ninja into trackers to be unfun, not to mention, unfair to the town in basically hard-countering their already a situational PR.

However, in the case of this game, with the ninja as one-shot, and the extra power behind the tracker type role, not to mention, the town rolecop, all serve as mitigating factors which make me okay with the ninja into the tracker type role, here.

I'm also fine with the rolecop being announcing.

[MegAzumarill]

So do we think this looks good with
Activated 1 shot ninja -> 1 shot ninja
Role cop -> announcing role cop

[mastina]

Yup, but need updated role PMs as a formality before a pass.

[MegAzumarill]

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Announcing Role Cop

.
Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will learn what role your target has. If your ability is successful your target will learn that they were targeted by a role cop
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.


Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Mafia One-Shot Ninja

.
Once per game, during the night, you may choose to not be detectable by tracker type and watcher type roles that night.
Each Night, if no other member of your faction is performing this action, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, that player will die.
Your teammates are PLAYER and PLAYER. You may talk to them here at any time: [link.]

You win if all non-Mafia players are dead and at least 1 Mafia aligned player is alive, or nothing can prevent the same.
Confirm your role by PM or by posting in your PT.

[MegAzumarill]

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Town Announcing Role Cop

.
Each night you may target a player. Assuming no interference to your action, you will learn what role your target has. If your ability is successful your target will learn that they were targeted by a role cop.
You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Missed a period and it bothers me.

[mastina]

Unless Datisi has any other concerns, I think this gets a /pass from me.

[Datisi]

are rulesets and investigation results no longer looked at during review?

no other concerns about the setup.

[MegAzumarill]

Rules

Stolen

"

Inspired

" by Plotinus's and Datisi's rulesets.

Deadlines:

Day 1: 10 days.
Day 2 and onward 7 days
Night phases: 2 days
Prod timer: 36 Hours
Replacement 24 Hours after Prod
Replacements may extend deadlines


As always, Follow all site rules. They can be found here.

Treat other players with respect.

¤

Mod Color

Mine is

Cyan(#008080)

. Feel free to use it, but do not try to impersonate me.
¤

Replacements

- Speculating reasons by a player replacing out is against the rules.
¤

Tiny text

- try to keep above

Size 75

.
¤

You may not

discuss ongoing games.
¤

Cryptography

or other forms of encoded messages are prohibited. Breadcrumbing (giving hints about your role without claiming it) is fine.
¤

Provable randomness

- is against the rules. Saying that you rolled a dice is fine, using dice tags or random.org is not.
¤

Claiming scum

- by yourself is fine. Claiming scum with another player is against the rules.
¤

Confirmation

- You have about 60 hours to confirm your role and your alignment by PM. Game will start early if 11/13 players confirm. Mafia may confirm by posting in their PT.
¤

Prods

- You must post game advancing content at least once every 36 hours or I will Prod you. You then have 24 hours to post in the game thread or I will replace you. If you return before I find a replacement you may stay in the game. Players not checking in within 24 hours of the night must send me a confirmation PM that night phase or be replaced. Receiving 3 prods results in forced replacement. Prods may be requested to be given early but will not count as an official prod until the 36 hours are up and the official prod PM is sent.
¤

Vacation/Limited Access:

If you need to, you may declare V/LA in bold in the thread like this:

@Mod: I will be V/LA until Thursday

. Alternatively you may PM me. If your V/LA lasts too long, I may seek replacement.
¤

Quoting

- You may not quote (or copy paste) any private information into the thread, including your role PM and any mod communication. This is strictly enforced. If something is unclear for this rule, ask me first.
¤

Voting

- Votes must in the format VOTE: MegAzumarill or

Vote: MegAzumarill

. Use vote tags whenever possible. If I think it is a vote, it counts as a vote.
¤

Elimination

- Days end early when a simple majority of players (>50%) vote to eliminate somebody. If a majority is not reached at deadline or if a majority of the players vote for no elimination, the day will end without an elimination. 50% of votes are sufficient for no elimination.
¤

Twilight

- Begins when a majority is reached and lasts until I lock the thread. You're still alive until I flip you so you can talk in any game threads you have access to until then, but votes are locked and cannot be changed.
¤

Night

- Night lasts 48 hours. I will send messages halfway through the night phase to any players that have not submitted an action.
¤

Action submissions

- You may submit actions via PM (if Town) or PT (if Mafia). If the actions are not submitted by the deadline then you do nothing. You can change your mind as many times as you like before the deadline.
¤

Notes PT

- These are allowed in order to track your thoughts in the game. You may draft posts in these to put in the main thread, but avoid using these to "prove" you always had a townie mindset.
¤

Vote Count Images

will be decided in advance. They have no bearing on the game.
¤

Play to win

- but most importantly, have fun!

Setup Information:

¤ This is a Normal Game. ¤Information on Normal Games¤
¤ All private threads are open during both day and night phases.
¤ Mafia do not have inherent multitasking.
¤ The game follows Natural Action Resolution.
¤ At least one player received the following PM:

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie PM

Welcome PLAYER, you are a

Vanilla Townie

.
You have no active abilities.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.
Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

[MegAzumarill]

are rulesets and investigation results no longer looked at during review?

For investigation results role cop and cop are pretty obvious, (Role cop will receive the role name minus the alignment, goon shows vanilla)
Cop gets Mafia/Not Mafia.
Follower/Voyeur Actions: (Rolecop/Cop- Role investigation, Doctor- Protection, Mafia Factional Kill- Killing)

I may misunderstand what you are asking for.

[mastina]

are rulesets and investigation results no longer looked at during review?

no other concerns about the setup.

The investigation results are, although I wasn't concerned there because the role pms already laid out the interactions I was looking for (making sure that the follower/voyeur results match what they should be, mainly).

The only thing to make sure about is making sure that a question about a No Result vs. No Visit is clear, even though the setup doesn't have a way to fail an investigation.

Rulesets are something that is something which we do look at, just to make sure that there's no non-Normal rules, but 99.99% of rulesets are basically the same, requiring no NRG action. So technically, is needed, albeit usually just as a formality.

[MegAzumarill]

"Your target performed a ____ action."
"A ____ action was performed on your target"
"You did not see your target perform an action."
"You saw no actions performed on your target"

[mastina]

(Basically, if the role's results are laid out in the role PMs themselves, then we don't need to have the result PMs to pass the review, but if the results are not laid out in the role PMs, then we DO need to see the result PMs in review. Here, the results of the Cop and Voyeur/Follower were mostly laid out, aside from a "no visit/action" for the Follower/Voyeur, and a universal theoretical "no result" even though that isn't a possibility this game. So, you're right, Datisi, I did miss that we do technically need to see the Role cop results, the No Visit / No Action result, and a hypothetical No Result pm.)

[MegAzumarill]

All Results compiled
Role Cop: Your target's role is "Vanilla"
"No Result"
Follower/Voyeur:
"Your target performed a ____ action."
"A ____ action was performed on your target"
"You did not see your target perform an action."
"You saw no actions performed on your target"
"No Result"
Cop:
Your target is Not Mafia.
Your target is Mafia.
"No Result"

[MegAzumarill]

Alright we good to go?

[mastina]

I believe we are, yes.

[MegAzumarill]

Thank you for all of tour guys' help, I'll probably put this in queue the first of november or so.

Have a lovely day

[implosion]

And you're actually going straight into signups since the other one isn't ready yet!

(so thanks for getting this review done in advance!)