Open 834: Trust Fall - Game Over

[Prism]

Overall I'm really struggling to find any townreads. The only question I am deeply invested in right now waits for MafMen to show up.

I guess for now I'll just stay out of the way for the most part.

[Wisdom]

Who you would suggest for town deserved trust?

duck and pooky

[Tammy]

Hmmm I was expecting Wisdom to scum read me.

Maybe just an issue of my own. I thought when I came back that I was going to be stuck with old meta expectations that I'd never be able to rid myself of, but most people haven't been holding me to old meta. Which is nice. Or he's scum :/

Have i ever actually scumread you, i cant recall

I don't know. I think the last time we played. I was in a bad place that game and had a melt down before replacing out, and I think you town read my slot after that lol.

Mostly I'm very aware of how some of my old meta that people used to read me from is not present anymore, and it was such a big deal years ago that every time I play with someone from the before time I expect them to scum read me now.

[Wisdom]

I don't see anything different from what I remember from you, but then again i dont remember that much

[Tammy]

hmm I'm not quite done with conclusions yet! I liked your response though.
I wouldn't say I was motivated entirely by stirring shit up, I superficially liked wisdom's posting and stuff and the non-reciprocation was worth talking about

Okay. By the way you brought it up it kinda sounded like backtracking a reasoning for why you did something as if you were trying to garner reads from it from the start, and thinking back to the conversation last night it did not feel that way. In that you said the discussion was unproductive when pooky pushed at it.

[the worst]

hmm I'm not quite done with conclusions yet! I liked your response though.
I wouldn't say I was motivated entirely by stirring shit up, I superficially liked wisdom's posting and stuff and the non-reciprocation was worth talking about

Okay. By the way you brought it up it kinda sounded like backtracking a reasoning for why you did something as if you were trying to garner reads from it from the start, and thinking back to the conversation last night it did not feel that way. In that you said the discussion was unproductive when pooky pushed at it.

That's a fair criticism. I've become more interested in people's reactions to the softclear than I originally was in the softclear, though at the time I didn't have reactions to be interested in. I think I can fairly say the softclear was a situation of like "oh this is something i vaguely believe and it's 149 times more exciting than anything else happening", rather than a "aw hells ye i cleared wisdom for reals and forever and will never re-evaluate this".

i didn't really find it productive being grilled for it because like, of course i wouldn't take that kind of clear as gospel, i was just kinda vibing.

that's about as well as i can explain it. i'm not really backtracking. it would be disingenuous to like, unironically double down again though. i knew it was a goofy read, to at least some extent.

[Tammy]

What I did like about wisdom's conversation with mafmen last night was the windy way his suspicions began changing. Like first he suspects Klick then moves to mafmen based on his points about Klick then thinking that mafmen is tmi-ing Klick as town followed by showing a little frustration that nobody will see what he sees with maf.

Not that I agree with the conversation really. I think that both of them lost their points at points, but I did like that. Not enough for an actual townread but I forgot to mention it when I was here earlier.

[MafMen]

Spoiler:

mmmmmm

what was this

It felt like an indirect rebuttal to me calling ducky obvtown in 147

in what way
i made a joke because im scared of the ducks wolfgame lol

pooky's klick push feels very genuine, but it's not scummy to say a thought because you have it

klick is null/PoE for me

^

Against my better judgement I caught up on the game.

I don't think MafMen essentially saying "but it might come from town, too" is as clever of a point as he thinks regarding Wisdom's reaction to Klick. I concur with Wisdom in that posts like 522 are a bit overly principled. If MafMen doesn't TR Klick and doesn't SR Wisdom I don't know why they didn't just wait to see what happens.

i did not mean for the argument to blow up to that proportion
i just didnt like the read, it was a slippery slope that couldve potentially lead to a whole lot of confbias, why should i sit and wait and not combat something i dont like?

also i for some reason wrote prism twice
the top prism in my brackets is meant to be wisdom

Can you speak more as to how you arrived at those brackets, and maybe what order you placed people in their respective spots? (eg. Were those brackets typed in chronological order, names inserted haphazardly or shifted around?)

most of my intention behind making those brackets was to express a scumlean against tammy instead of responding to her to reaction test her
i didnt have a particular order in the way i sorted people, i just went with each name that came to mind. i was debating between putting you in townlean or townread but decided on the former after i realized i had nothing more than gut to sort you on. i sorted wisdom after you and accidentally wrote your name instead of his because of the difficulty i had sorting you

you and pooky were gutreads, and wisdom and cookie were stronger than that

expending political capital to shade someone who's town is not exactly a winning strategy for a scumside player.

your goal is to get someone to trust you

not make sure nobody can trust anyone (cuz that's like literally impossible)

Scum doesn't just want to get trusted - they want to be trusted more than town
So scum!Tammy would be concerned about town'Wisdom getting soft-confirmed because that takes away from her potential pairings, since all the townies that might have wanted to pair with her would instead be appealing to Wisdom

I don't feel like this is stupid? But it seems that everyone has a consensus about this and I've not played the setup before admittedly

agree with Klick here. I can see scum wanting to shade 1 player to make them feel forced into accepting any trust they can find. maybe wouldn't work with experienced players but I think that is a motive for throwing shade on the right player (whilst wanting to suck up to the majority too). so I think slight tendency towards players who are bucking the consensus and standing out. i havent read everything back but was liking mafmen for town apart from 1 post which referred to my "previous games", when I only have 1, which didn't really make sense. Pooky-Tammy is probably a lock unless they are both scum which would be awkward. i will keep catching up when i can.

you played in a large and a mini normal but okay

I am thinking about two candidates which i plan to trust soon. Before that, i wish ask everyone. Who you would suggest for town deserved trust?

wisdom pooky

I don't feel very confident read-wise rn

the weaker players r barely participating and I don't feel comfortable townbinning the stronger players atm since they are perfectly capable of maintaining this kind of thread presence/activity as scum.

who are the weaker players?

me

you are the scariest player in this game even though you are a harmless duck

I'm a bit dubious about what the scum motivation for hard wking Klick is there.

if klick is town and the only person who trusts klick is MafMen then its an easy out

i sort of feel like infinity is skirting on the periphery but posts when they pop up never really fill me with deep joy.

maybe it's too early for scumreads though - more important to keep an open mind about who could be town.

can you expand a bit on why that would make infinity scum? in your state this is pretty pot/kettle m

not really, it's just a gut feel. like i dont always really notice infinity is there, and occasionally i see a post and my heart sinks a little. gut reads are very much a personal thing, if you feel the same about me or just dont like the way i talk thats fine. at some point i could make a scumcase on someone but my point is that it isnt really the time for that now.

i really like this

to be a bit more translucent I'm very very wary of how infinity reacted

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

[the worst]

What I did like about wisdom's conversation with mafmen last night was the windy way his suspicions began changing. Like first he suspects Klick then moves to mafmen based on his points about Klick then thinking that mafmen is tmi-ing Klick as town followed by showing a little frustration that nobody will see what he sees with maf.

Not that I agree with the conversation really. I think that both of them lost their points at points, but I did like that. Not enough for an actual townread but I forgot to mention it when I was here earlier.

this qualifies it really well.

[MafMen]

ftr klick isnt the only one ive defended this game from reads i felt werent really
well
that

good

its just the only one that exploded like that

[the worst]

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

Yup - their read was very "this happened therefore town / therefore scum" and I was looking for a bit more nuance.

[MafMen]

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

Yup - their read was very "this happened therefore town / therefore scum" and I was looking for a bit more nuance.

mm i guess

[Infinity 324]

which reaction? you mean how their townread dropped because wisdom confirmed he didnt see the trust or?

Yup - their read was very "this happened therefore town / therefore scum" and I was looking for a bit more nuance.

i don't think nuance was really warranted in this situation

[MafMen]

does enchant feel almost invisible for anybody or is that just me

[Infinity 324]

i mean he hasn't really been posting

[MafMen]

i mean he hasn't really been posting

i dont mean like inactivity
when you cookie and klick were lowposters you guys were still very noticeable but enchant for me has been flying under the radar

[the worst]

does enchant feel almost invisible for anybody or is that just me

i've found his takes abstract but interesting. what do you think of them?

[Infinity 324]

well i didn't think he even had 19 posts so i guess?

he's kind of been on his own wavelength which i think is usual for him.

[the worst]

"on his own wavelength" is exactly the words i was trying to brain

[MafMen]

does enchant feel almost invisible for anybody or is that just me

i've found his takes abstract but interesting. what do you think of them?

after my tammy read flopped i was left with a bunch of nulls but if i had to pick a candidate for scum hed probably be one of them
his entrance is unnatural, i liked his refusing trust =/= town post, i dont like that he showed no thought progression on how he got two candidates to trust

[MafMen]

"on his own wavelength" is exactly the words i was trying to brain

if its his meta to be a recluse like this then perhaps im wrong but he posts seem very awkward

[MafMen]

his*

[MafMen]

this isnt something im confident in though
i have alot of townreads and not many null and below so im shamelessly throwing shit and hoping it sticks

[MafMen]

my updated brackets probably look like
(pooky, cookie, wisdom)
(prism, infinity, tammy)
(tw, enchant, klick)
()
()

[MafMen]

now that i think about it im not really comfortable with there being 2 scum in klick, enchant, and tw so im gonna have to probably redo my reads