Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Dunnstral]

Now or tonight?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Today, if needed

[Dunnstral]

What did I sacrifice?

If you're town, and Code Red is indeed a town flavour, there is a ZERO percent chance that it's not got some kind of power attached.

Claiming it as you did is a complete waste of value, lets scum know where to shoot.

My problems with this:

1. It's not true that code red is 100% a pr. Based on what?
2. This fishes for whether I am a pr and makes it hard for me to respond to
3. Why would you draw attention to this?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

What did I sacrifice?

If you're town, and Code Red is indeed a town flavour, there is a ZERO percent chance that it's not got some kind of power attached.

Claiming it as you did is a complete waste of value, lets scum know where to shoot.

My problems with this:

1. It's not true that code red is 100% a pr. Based on what?
2. This fishes for whether I am a pr and makes it hard for me to respond to
3. Why would you draw attention to this?

You're the one who drew attention to it by claiming the role name, it's a contentiously favourite flavour that spawned this game due to the discussion IIRC and I'm drawing attention because you questioned my logic and I think you're scum.

[Critter]

From the OP: “ This setup is a flavored low-complexity game for 13 players and is explicitly guaranteed to feature 10 town-aligned players and 3 mafia.”

I have two questions here for LLD:
1) Are you 100% sure? There’s something nagging me about this but I can’t put my finger on it.
2) If 1) is true are you sure this is the right course? Going back and forth like this doesn’t benefit town. Instead it might be good to see who Dunn pushes and what Dunn does.

We need to see how the game interacts as a whole.

Now for Dunn:
Can you give a list of town reads and scumreads so far?

[E. M. M. I.]

You know, I figured I’d get more reactions to my RQS than I have so far, maybe people just don’t care when I do it anymore.
I am curious why Critter thinks Dunn is an easy read though.

Not surprising given that at least half of this playerbase are old timers who thinks RQS is some primordial sin.

With that said:

1. Saw 1.
2. Doctor. Finding Mafia is one thing, but predicting who Mafia will kill is a totally different story. Trying to stay off the radar as town is kinda hard too.
3. I am perfect. I have no weaknesses.
4. I would personally like to end the game before reaching LimLo.

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Page 2: Meta talk. Not really worth commenting on those.

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Page 3 - 4: Not going to lie, I had to read this few times trying to grasp what's going on. It still did not compute completely. I have no experience with Dunnstral (Or I could be pretending. Alt and all, hehe.) so "Dunnstral would or would not do this" part just flies over my CPU. I have my own theory about what is going on though. I think saying my theory out loud would not help anyone, so I am going to shut my speaker and VOTE: Dunnstral.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

I have a partial alignment gradient across everyone who has weighed in on Dunn vs LLD so far, so I am going to say this back and forth definitely benefits town. I might not be able to properly sort Dunn or LLD before their current skirmish resolves, but I’d bet my bottom dollar that given enough time I can sort everyone else specifically because of it.

This is good, I like this gamestate.

[Towelie]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned roles to it.

That said, I don't think that makes Code Red slam dunk being a PR; this is analogous to the possibility assigning the protagonist of your flavor as a VT role in theme games, something that is well within the realm of what Cabd might do.

Your actions are incomprehensible. All I know is that you are lying about your role.

How do you know she's lying? She hasn't even really said anything concrete yet.

[Towelie]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned [flavor] to it.

ugh, ebwop again.

[Towelie]

Like I think in a dunn scum world you have to at least believe it's not so beloved to the mod that it'd be not in the game at all and a fakeclaim instead.

I don't believe in a world where scum roles are anything but non mountain dew drinks at this point with mountain dew drink fakeclaims; it just makes the scum alighment being "competitor brand" extremely sloppy if this isn't the case.

That said if LLD has something that contradicts this I'll revisit when that time comes, but before that happens i'll mostly be basing my dunn read off of this interaction and not anything nebulously setup related because the pieces don't fit correctly atm.

[Towelie]

See this, I don't buy.

i don't have an issue w/ Dunn's explanation here, and i think frame of reference on whether or not one thinks of [claiming flavor => giving away info] is really the key to interpreting this action as something other than null (which is how i was inclined to sort it)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like I think in a dunn scum world you have to at least believe it's not so beloved to the mod that it'd be not in the game at all and a fakeclaim instead.

I don't believe in a world where scum roles are anything but non mountain dew drinks at this point with mountain dew drink fakeclaims; it just makes the scum alighment being "competitor brand" extremely sloppy if this isn't the case.

That said if LLD has something that contradicts this I'll revisit when that time comes, but before that happens i'll mostly be basing my dunn read off of this interaction and not anything nebulously setup related because the pieces don't fit correctly atm.

That first line is wherin my issue lies.

My role cannot cannot cannot exist if a true claim Code Red can exist in this game and have that level of town clearing on it.

It simply cannot.

[Toogeloo]

As much as it would be hilarious to be in yet another scum Dunn game for me, I really don't think it's the case here. Dunn's already done something that is completely off meta from what I've observed scum him do.

Additionally, I trust LLD's day 1 knee-jerk reads very little as I've seen them wrong more than right. She plays with confidence, but has proven that playing confidently doesn't mean being correct.

[Towelie]

have that level of town clearing on it.

I don't think it was intended to be town clearing? It's either his role or its a mod provided fakeclaim. Either way it's under his purview.

I can see a world where town-dunn got that role and wanted to flex on noddy and me for getting it, or a world where scum-dunn had it as his fakeclaim and wanted to basically do the same thing. I did something similar when I came out of the gate being super excited to roll Meiling in GIF's Touhou game. I wasn't Meiling at all, but if I had been I'd likely have done the same thing (in fairness, that's hard to say, not having had that opportunity)

actually, noddy was Flandre legitimately that game and basically did the same thing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As much as it would be hilarious to be in yet another scum Dunn game for me, I really don't think it's the case here. Dunn's already done something that is completely off meta from what I've observed scum him do.

Additionally, I trust LLD's day 1 knee-jerk reads very little as I've seen them wrong more than right. She plays with confidence, but has proven that playing confidently doesn't mean being correct.

My Day 1 reads are about as accurate as anyone's, tbh. Nothing uniquely special, I definitely get better in a forum setting as days go on, but...

Your recent experience was me being wrong on you. so.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

More importantly, Toog's post is kind of weird because he takes the time to read Dunn's alignment but doesn't bother trying to read mine?

Toog, you're writing like you're assuming I'm town. Why is that?

[Towelie]

Dunn's already done something that is completely off meta from what I've observed scum him do.

which is what?

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Extraplanetary Multiform Mobile Identifier, aka E.M.M.I.

Metroidvania games are my thing. Gotta take out my enemies. Plus, not a fan of the sheep vote on Dunn.

PEdit: you went 0/3, so. You're the type of player I immediately put my trust guard up around regardless though.

[Toogeloo]

which is what?

He claimed.

[Toogeloo]

More importantly, Toog's post is kind of weird because he takes the time to read Dunn's alignment but doesn't bother trying to read mine?

Toog, you're writing like you're assuming I'm town. Why is that?

I'm writing assuming nothing. Unlike you, I don't dive off the deep end. I observe.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

VOTE: Extraplanetary Multiform Mobile Identifier, aka E.M.M.I.

Metroidvania games are my thing. Gotta take out my enemies. Plus, not a fan of the sheep vote on Dunn.

PEdit: you went 0/3, so. You're the type of player I immediately put my trust guard up around regardless though.

I went 0/3 in one game where on Day 1 I had Dunn and Cabd as a hard townread and so they got to manipulate my reads.

I also won that game, in the end. I've also led deaths on scum day 1 plenty of times.

It's literally just a game where my strongest town reads were scum and got under my guard and I had to re-evaluate later in days. That's fine, that's meant to happen sometimes.

You're being pretty results oriented...

[Toogeloo]

Gotta get my jabs in while I can.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

VOTE: Extraplanetary Multiform Mobile Identifier, aka E.M.M.I.

Metroidvania games are my thing. Gotta take out my enemies. Plus, not a fan of the sheep vote on Dunn.

PEdit: you went 0/3, so. You're the type of player I immediately put my trust guard up around regardless though.

I went 0/3 in one game where on Day 1 I had Dunn and Cabd as a hard townread and so they got to manipulate my reads.

I also won that game, in the end. I've also led deaths on scum day 1 plenty of times.

It's literally just a game where my strongest town reads were scum and got under my guard and I had to re-evaluate later in days. That's fine, that's meant to happen sometimes.

You're being pretty results oriented...

Question! Considering the results-orientation of Toogeloo and your apparent critique of it:

Is it fair or unfair for someone to take past results and use them to judge future performance? Is it more fair to take the sum of all results, functionally assuming inability to adjust, or to take an average over the most recent results, allowing recent bad runs to overshadow a longer good run? Are results less important than reads that simply follow the confident, or are they less important?

Do you think our moderators/reviewers would purposefully select flavor that was exactly divided on scum-town lines, allowing a massclaim to break the game open, or would they select flavor that would purposefully hamper attempts to divine alignment through flavor?

All of these are honest questions I'm very curious to hear your answers to, and almost more importantly, /how/ you answer them.

[Gamma Emerald]

You know, I figured I’d get more reactions to my RQS than I have so far, maybe people just don’t care when I do it anymore.
I am curious why Critter thinks Dunn is an easy read though.

Not surprising given that at least half of this playerbase are old timers who thinks RQS is some primordial sin.

With that said:

1. Saw 1.
2. Doctor. Finding Mafia is one thing, but predicting who Mafia will kill is a totally different story. Trying to stay off the radar as town is kinda hard too.
3. I am perfect. I have no weaknesses.
4. I would personally like to end the game before reaching LimLo.

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Page 2: Meta talk. Not really worth commenting on those.

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Page 3 - 4: Not going to lie, I had to read this few times trying to grasp what's going on. It still did not compute completely. I have no experience with Dunnstral (Or I could be pretending. Alt and all, hehe.) so "Dunnstral would or would not do this" part just flies over my CPU. I have my own theory about what is going on though. I think saying my theory out loud would not help anyone, so I am going to shut my speaker and VOTE: Dunnstral.

I would've expected pushback for it based on that. Also, pretty cool answers (and fitting for your account as well wrt 3!)
Also, Critter seems town rn

[Gamma Emerald]

low complexity is not necessarily commensurate w/ normal, nor do i think cabd just started w/ a setup and haphazardly assigned roles to it.

That said, I don't think that makes Code Red slam dunk being a PR; this is analogous to the possibility assigning the protagonist of your flavor as a VT role in theme games, something that is well within the realm of what Cabd might do.

Your actions are incomprehensible. All I know is that you are lying about your role.

How do you know she's lying? She hasn't even really said anything concrete yet.

Code Red is more like The Lancer, Mountain Dew Classic would be The Hero (if someone is confused by the tvtropes jargon, The Lancer is essentially the secondary protagonist that contrasts with the Hero)