Newbie 2081 | Game Over

[Greeting]

[Binatog13]

Not that it matters much now

@Binatog

, but you never answered whether your vote on N_M was intentional VOTE: Binatog13

That was random
And my post on day one that NM townreads me made them pretty suspicious.

[DaTacoX]

Not that it matters much now

@Binatog

, but you never answered whether your vote on N_M was intentional VOTE: Binatog13

That was random
And my post on day one that NM townreads me made them pretty suspicious.

Alright then, just wanted to hear it.

[hops]

I know people have said this already in other words but to say it out loud... putting aside the possibility of astoundingly bad scum play, I think we can then assume nobody on the N_M wagon a bussing scum, since it'd be dumb to sacrifice a rolecop so early on. Binatog could've been distancing and had it blow up in his face though which would be hilarious but unlikely.

I don't remember why I suspected kennyk as second on my list to lim, but it was probably just the lack of townreads. I'll look at his posts in iso when I have the time later but to get the ball rolling...

VOTE: kennyk

[Binatog13]

About the flip, we can conclude that our PR is a town tracker and/or friendly neighbor. If tracker found someone suspicious movements then he can go out and post info, otherwise don't.

[MegAzumarill]

To the Tracker- whoever you checked if they didn't visit catboi they are confirmed town

[MegAzumarill]

In b4 no tracker

[Jake The Wolfie]

Hello, everyone!

[MegAzumarill]

Hello mr wolf

[Jake The Wolfie]

Am I the wolf that Wall St is talking about?

[Greeting]

The audacity of MegAzumarill telling potential power roles what to do when they themselves are on the chopping block for bad reads

[MegAzumarill]

The audacity of MegAzumarill telling potential power roles what to do when they themselves are on the chopping block for bad reads

Much audacity for clarifying info to our tracker.

[Greeting]

Am I the wolf that Wall St is talking about?

“Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan”

[Greeting]

Vote count 2.00

It is Day 2!
With 9 votes, it takes 5 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-31 18:30:00)

VC

Not Voting [7]:

DaTacoX, Greeting, Binatog13, hops, kennyk, MegAzumarill, Jake The Wolfie

Mod Notes

• 

@midwaybear something doesn’t add up here. We had 9 players originally, scummy cow and catboi are out. Which means that there’s 7 votes and it now takes 4 to eliminate.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Yeah, it would be 4 to axe here.

[midwaybear]

Vote count 2.01

It is Day 2!
With 7 votes, it takes 4 to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-10-31 18:30:00)

VC

kennyk [2]:

Greeting, hops

DaTacoX [1]:

MegAzumarill

Binatog13 [1]:

DaTacoX

Not Voting [3]:

Binatog13, kennyk, Jake The Wolfie

Mod Notes

• Thanks fixed
  
• 

[kennyk]

Well that was better than expected

I cant`t agree more. Elimming a rolecop day 1 is in itself absolutely good.

And something else I didn`t expect was the catboi nightkill. As N_M read him and Greeting scum twice I wasn't too sure if that was a distancing post and one of them was scum. With Greeting hammering I doubt it, too that he wasn`t bussing his rolecop co-scum. So it would have left catboi as a suspect from N_Ms post. I would have really digged into that today. Good, that this isn't happening now (yes, I know catboi was town, but better let scum NK townies than us miselimming ourselfs. And catboi was 'only' vanilla, so it could have been worse).

So we have on our positive side:
- Mafia power role is out.
- Mafia didn't nightkill a town PR.
- A main suspect from one of N_Ms posts was NKed by mafia.

[kennyk]

Yeah, I’m not going to follow the ask before you hammer rule. Had I done that, we would be debating if Not_Mafia really was what he claimed, then the real holder of a power role would claim and we would lose them.

I’m mistrustful of everyone who wasn’t on the Not_Mafia wagon.

VOTE: kennyk

I am very glad that things happened as they did. It was also very good that after N_M claimed jailkeeper after the hammer, no one counterclaimed as this would have given scum a perfect night target.

I see why you mistrust everyone who wasn't on the wagon. But there is always a slight chance, that his partner was on it.

[kennyk]

If anyone receives a FN message say so, but don't say from who.

I wanted to post the first half of that, too. And I thought of posting the second half as well. But thinking it through, I don't think it is that good.

I totally agree, that posting a "I received a message that someone is town" helps town a lot. It does in no way confirm the person who got this message, but it should confirm the sender (more to that later). and this info also reduces the possible setups to two. If such a message exists, there is either a tracker or a jailkeeper out there. And with this knowledge we could adjust our strategy to scumhunt.

If there is no one who is posting such a message there are the following options:
- There is no FN. We are in the setup with a tracker and a doc. (This is the scenario I would prefer as, in my opinion this gives us the most grip on the game)
- Catboi was the one who should have gotten the FN-message. So it is lost with his death.
- We are in the setup with the FN and the JK and the JK either targeted the FN or the FN 'target'.
- The FN 'target' is the remaining scum player who doesn't want to confirm a townie.

But what if someone received a "XY is town"-message? That someone should definitely say so as I don't think that silently defending the FN is a good way to play it.

But what about keeping the FNs name secret? If it is not revealed, we only know, that there is a FN out there. This helps a bit, but not a lot. And if the person, who got the message is NKed night 2, there is no one who could confirm the name of the FN. On the other hand the FN is very likely to be NKed night 2 if the name is revealed. As town has an information deficit I would rather go with naming the FN to gain as uch info as possible.

[MegAzumarill]

FN is confirmed town if they claim their role at all. (Evil has to claim VT or lose)
We don't need to know their name yet, gives scum more info to name their kill.

[hops]

If we're in a setup with a JK, then whoever JK had roleblocked is basically confirmed town, right?

[hops]

Also, I still don't follow what advantage town gets from knowing the setup. Right now scum can't know the setup yet, while the PRs would have more information on the setup, even exactly in the event that said PR is a JK or a doctor. I'm not sure why we'd want to nullify that.

[Greeting]

If we're in a setup with a JK, then whoever JK had roleblocked is basically confirmed town, right?

We have two town power roles and a Mafia Goon who now submits the night kill alone.

If we have a JK and they use their powers on Night Two, the possible outcomes are:
1. if they pick a Vanilla Townie, they will receive the info that "x" is Vanilla, which basically confirms that this person is a Vanilla Townie;
2. if they pick the other Power Role, I think that person's role will be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success;
3. if they pick the Mafia Goon, their NK should be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success.

It will take some deduction to differentiate between 2 and 3.

If they successfully role blocked the Mafia Goon, there will be no NK. If they role block the other town PR, there (most likely) will be a NK.

I don't know what the JK receives if they target a player who does have a power role but didn't utilise it on that Night. Technically there is also a possibility that a Mafia Goon skips a NK even though that's clearly in not their interest. In my last game, N2078, the power roles weren't used every night.

[Greeting]

Also, I still don't follow what advantage town gets from knowing the setup. Right now scum can't know the setup yet, while the PRs would have more information on the setup, even exactly in the event that said PR is a JK or a doctor. I'm not sure why we'd want to nullify that.

Since Not_Mafia was a Rolecop, we have the following possibilities:

1. Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor
2. Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor
3. Town Tracker and Town Doctor

Each of the players who have one of these four roles can narrow this down.

If there is a Doctor in the game, they will know that the other power role is a Tracker.
If there is a JK in the game, they will know that the other power role is a FN.
The Tracker will know that there is either a FN or a Doctor, and so there is no JK in the game.
The FN will know that there is either a Tracker or a JK, and so there is no Doctor in the game.

That is, of course, discounting the potential usage of power roles during the Night Phase. It's likely that at least one clever player already knows the setup of the game, but it's not 100% certain.

[Jake The Wolfie]

Roles don't typically get feedback when they act, unless they are investigative. So if you're a roleblocker, you won't know whether or not you succeeded in roleblocking someone or not. Obviously if you were a doctor and you protect someone who dies then that's cause for concern, but if they don't die then you won't be sure if they were attacked, or if you were stopped in some way, or if they simply weren't attacked.