Mini Normal 2246 - Game Over

[Salsabil Faria]

@A50

, your sudden (& so much) love for me is making me falling hard for you

Spoiler: For A50

D8luZ4fa8Mw

I actually want to vote

Three

but it'll be more biasness than a scumread, so won't vote there for now.

UNVOTE: Looker

VOTE: Dorsey

[Salsabil Faria]

Page top!

[Selynee]

Go elim a50 or gera and go to the night.
If smb of them is green, this is not a big problem.
We need info

If A50 is town here, they are useful. Yeah, based on one game but they were smart there.

[Looker]

@Andres do you honestly like the sheeple you have with you?

Doesn't dorsey look like a juicy wagon to you?
I'd be down running up Looker as an alternative, what do you think about that?

Would you like to explain? Y/N?

So no?

it's fair, dorsey's vote feels gross enough to poison the whole well

what's your shotgun reads looking like right now? i have class in about 3 minutes, but i do wanna solve with you a bit, if only our schedules were lining up >_>

datisi/andres/wiki/dwlee town
gera/sely/three/salsa/a50 exist. Wiki's pressure on gera make me wanna defend gera, but he's null. The others i could probably make a case for either allignment if i wanted to.
T3 i really don't like how he's been poking me without really engaging me, but that's like the full extent of suspicion i have there

i really don't like lookers entry

and i didn't like GE before
Dorsey is so bleh and their T3 vote is very opportunistic i feel - now drawing the 'boohoo look at me everyone's mad at me' card is really unimpressive

i'd love a good wagon on either dorsey or looker here

Is it because I questioned your friend?

?

wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?

i think it would

(:

VOTE: three

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned

Which post was this explanation?

wiki, can you stop pretending like you're a fucking moron who learned about the game of mafia yesterday

you were giving me shit earlier for "not having any progression on you and never considering you scum" (despite that being untrue!) and now you're pretending like i just randomly called dorsey scum after calling them town with no reasoning or explanation

get your head out of your own fucking ass because you're showing time and time again you don't know shit about this game

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

What's the difference between heated and flail? Also, which good part of the game is not playing, as in player names?

Spoiler: ISO Notes: Curious flash voting

VOTE: Datisi

I thought you wanted to put me @E-1. Now I look like a monkey for that self-vote. *Sigh*

VOTE: Datisi

VOTE: a50
go

VOTE: A50

ok master Wiki

guide me to victory senpai

FGS! Make up your mind, Duh!

VOTE: A50

A50 if you're negative utility then just say so

Spoiler: ISO Notes, RE:A50

I am totally checked out from this game. I should probably try to read and/or do something, but I can't bring myself to effort today (as in D1)

Oh, finally! A wagon on a scummy slot

VOTE: A50

Can anybody tell how bored I am?

Let me know when it's time to end the day

@Looker

, my read on

Datisi

is actually based on meta but not only meta. The way he goes with

Wiki

&

Three

, it clearly takes lots of attention which no scum want in D1 in general basis. Though I don’t know his scum meta but as an experienced player, do you think scum!

Datisi

is this much sloppy? Plus, his sorting style is kind of like that, he will keep asking the same question until his satisfaction (which is annoying tbh ). But I'll look onto your case later, busy rn (this game is giving me headache also).

Do I think Datisi is this sloppy? I think that would require me to think that this current game is sloppy, which I don't. As for Datisi, I don't think he's a sloppy player - I'm sure every one of his moves is perfectly logical to him. "Sloppy" is subjective and kind of negative.

---

Personal note: We have 1v1s with Almost50 vs Wiki, and Three vs Datisi

---

Spoiler:

vague responses to looker because i am way too tired for a proper wall response:
- wiki's different from the rest of us in that he's very loudly wrong and refuses to listen to anyone but himself
- how the hell am i supposed to press them for info if they're literally not posting? like, do you think that if i repost the question every two hours, it'll make them post?
- mostly going off of your interaction with me - it seemed like you were way more interested in making me look bad for bs contradictions and cheap potshots than actually solving me. i don't think you once said how something is townie or scummy about me, you just kept shading me. if you're actually interested in this and won't just turn it into a nonsense comeback, i can go in depth tomorrow when it's not an hour past my bedtime.
- i'm vibing, their posts make me feel like they're town despite not having much Concrete there, like do you know what a vibe is? and yes i solve a lot on gut
- for the record, there is one of the cheap potshots i am talking about
- i was just repeating ico's words, and also i have given out a read on every person on that wagon, so
- dorsey isn't a50, i know a50 can be a troll as town so yeeting him would be a ~random yeet
- again this also feels like bad faith trying to point out a """contradiction"""

• "Nonsense" is dismissive
  
• Which contradictions do you feel made you look bad?
  
• Do you feel there's a difference between "shading" and sorting?
  
• Do you feel you're able to navigate bias regarding Iconeum's atypically high regard for you
  
• "Andres is town" 1502; "Sel is townier" 1621; "Dorsey is gross" 1640
  
• You have a special relationship with A50. Understood.
  
• How would you propose finding scum if not by finding patterns and inconsistencies? Would you prefer "vibes"?
  • I actually think you don't care to find scum because you are scum, and thus don't care to be obligated to consistency. I think that's why you're trying to make things so inconsistent and mood-based.

p-edit: Does increased profanity mean that Datisi is thinking harder?
p-p-edit: Yes. Help me find mafia, lol.

"contradictions" and cheap potshots that i hate, other than the ones already pointed out above:
- 1496 is misrepping my reasoning for voting dorsey and making a "contradiction" out of it (though this one *can* be forgiven if you're newly in the game, etc)
- 1513 is once again doing that, and it's asking a very leading question that makes me look bad no matter how i answer
- 1533 was also showing my vote in the worst light possible
- most of the rest of the convo around pages 61-62 felt like it was made in the sort of condescending looking-for-a-gotcha tone, like asking me about my gut-based reads or asking which players do i think contributed the most

- yes, sorting is using the things you're hearing and making ai conclusions out of it. shading is responding in a way that's *clearly* meant to imply you think the person is scummy, but not outright saying it nor providing any concrete reasoning, just painting it in a bad light and lettign the audience draw their own conclusions, so to speak

- i'd say so, scum!iconeum hasn't ever approached me like this, and this game is far more effort from him than i'd expect if he randed scum 5th game in a row. i'll admit i'm not willing to bet the game on it yet, but so far he reads town to me.

- the townread on andres was literally explained in the post you linked (other than the meta/gut of him feeling like he usually does, but i know you don't care about that), dorsey i'd also explained and you shot it down as me wagoning the lowest content slot, sel has just felt... solvey? i can go over her slot later, don't feel too much like doing it right this moment bc she's not under fire and holy shit do i have things to respond to in the thread

- yes, call that special relationship "knowing who a50 is".

- again this feels like a bad faith leading question. obviously patterns and inconsistencies are a way of finding scum. but it's also pretty known that some inconsistencies that appear scummy do come from town, because town makes mistakes too. especially if they're as forced as you're making mine out to be >_>

- i've been a proponent of gutreads ever since i joined this site, if i have to be digging quotes where i say that, i'm gonna lose it

fuck me the pedits

• 1496 is me asking you a question. I asked what the difference was between Dorsey and Andres.
  
  Spoiler: 1496

  I get that you're saying you think Andres is town because of it, but I'm asking why. I also read your vote of Dorsey, which is why I'm trying to see what the difference is. One doesn't vote a leading wagon and you vote them (Dorsey), the other doesn't and you commend them (Andres). What's the difference that I'm overlooking?

  
  
• 1513 was also me asking you a question - I was asking you why you were voting for Dorsey because your previous post (1502) was unclear. You said they needed to explain themselves and said you weren't voting them because of their voting but that you WERE voting them because of their voting. I was trying to get you to explain yourself...through talking to you.
  
  Spoiler: 1513

  i'm not voting dorsey for "not voting the leading wagon". i'm voting them because their newer posts seem to be designed to give an appearance of some sorta effort and scumhunting, but they just feel completely made up and arbitrary, and they need to be forced to explain themselves. it has nothing to do with who they're voting. (well, almost nothing - i have no clue why they're voting a50, but you get it.)

  For clarification: Are you voting because you disagree with Dorsey or are you voting because you don't understand Dorsey?

  
  
• Are you saying that you would've drawn a different conclusion from that information? Because, when I presented it to you in conversation, all you said was "okay" and stopped talking.
  
  Spoiler: 1533

  It's just that I'm skimming through and all of the bigger wagons (Wiki, Selynee, geraintm,

  Almost50

  , Dorsey) have had you on them. You weren't on A50's, though.

  
  
• Re:condescension - No; that's you. You've name-called, swore, and insulted people - you're the condescending one. I've only asked you questions.
  
• Re:Selynee - Can you elaborate on what you mean by "solvey"? Which posts of hers has made you see her as town?
  
• How are you determining which inconsistencies that appear scummy are coming from town and which are coming from scum? I ask because it came off as if you felt I was going about this all wrong.

i lowkey want to do this

DO IT!

is the joke that you're gonna call it a scumclaim if i vote you?

No. The joke was I used the GIF for DO IT by Chloe & Halle

I'm starting to think you're not almost 50 years old...

Spoiler: ISO Notes: Ouch, rejected

Why should i tr you? I see no reasons at all

really? nothing?

okay then

---

There are so many posts lol

[Wiki]

Go elim a50 or gera and go to the night.
If smb of them is green, this is not a big problem.
We need info

If A50 is town here, they are useful. Yeah, based on one game but they were smart there.

useless

[Salsabil Faria]

@A50

, your sudden (& so much) love for me is making me falling hard for you

Spoiler: For A50

I actually want to vote

Three

but it'll be more biasness than a scumread, so won't vote there for now.

UNVOTE: Looker

VOTE: Dorsey

*embarrassing*

EBWOP

[Almost50]

I did a quick reread of the opening 20 pages (and got tired so won't be doing the rest for now). Anyway, I think I want to put Selynee and Dwlee as TRs too, so..

Almost50
Datisi
salsabil
Selynee
Dwlee99

Everyone else < this isn't true, actually.. but I'm inly TOWN hunting with this reread, so..

[Dorsey]

Salsa loves A50 so much she gave him her Wi-Fi password

@Andres - How is influential scum good?

[ChaosOmega]

Votecount 1.12

Three (3) - Datisi, Iconeum, T3
T3 (2) - Andresvmb, Selynee
Datisi (2) - Three, Dorsey
Almost50 (1) - Wiki
Dorsey (1) - Salsabil Faria
Wiki (1) - Almost50
Dwlee99 (1) - geraintm

Not Voting (2) - Looker, Dwlee99

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate someone.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-10-31 06:52:46)

[Salsabil Faria]

Salsa loves A50 so much she gave him her Wi-Fi password

[T3]

How about this....give me your most convincing scumread and like 2 or 3 sentences and I'll tell you if you're town off of it

three

he made some posts that came off as manipulative
he is approaching the game from a pov that assumes stuff

[Andresvmb]

Salsa loves A50 so much she gave him her Wi-Fi password

@Andres - How is influential scum good?

I didn’t say influential Scum was good. That would be idiotic. It’s definitely easier to spot though. And you’re basically assuming Datisi is certain Scum. I am not assigning such high odds to Datisi flipping Scum. However, if Datisi is not Scum, them being influential is a good thing. That’s more what I meant.

[Andresvmb]

How about this....give me your most convincing scumread and like 2 or 3 sentences and I'll tell you if you're town off of it

three

he made some posts that came off as manipulative
he is approaching the game from a pov that assumes stuff

Outside of DW who you have Town locked from meta, who do you think is Town?

[Datisi]

sup friends, i am back, i got a bowl of popcorn, let's see what we got here

[Datisi]

"i change my mind, three is scum, i will elaborate a bit later as i don't have time right now"
"wow what a wild progression"

like, you're just looking at the fact that i changed my read without even giving a shit why. so either you think i'm scum regardless of why my eead changed (which is bad) or you're jumping at the opportunity to attack me now that the dorsey wagon is dwindling down (which again, bad)

How can you actually believe I don't give a shit about why you changed your read on me? I asked how you changed your read on me so quickly with zero interaction and little content between you town reading me and then scum reading me. I asked why you think I'm scum and why you believe I spewed Dorsey as town. You're just wrong here.

What makes you think I think you're scum regardless of why your read changed? What makes you think switching votes after getting a reaction to pressure,

which I've literally been begging to happen for days now,

is scum-indicative?

i can believe it quite easily, considering your 1773 was seeing me change my read on you, immediately jumping on voting me and calling me full of shit. that doesn't sound very interested in what i have to say. though the answers to those questions should be in 1799 and 1826.

again, immediately voting me and calling me full of shit generally gives off that impression. and i'm not sure what you're referring to "switching votes when getting a reaction to pressure", but assuming you're talking about you switching from dorsey to me - that action in a vacuum is fine. the way you did it and your narrative around it is what makes it scummy. don't simplify my arguments to the point of obvious wrongness, please.

and here's the problem i have with you, like it's plainly obvious i meant "i didn't have the most recent progression on you explained yet", because that is clearly what part of my progression you're attacking in 1773

but in 1778, you're taking the literal meaning of progression as a whole (when again, not what we're talking about) and attacking *that* part of my post, despite that not being relevant and not what we're talking about

I'm not a mind reader! I am going to take things literally instead of trying to guess what somebody "really means"! I'm not going to see "I don't have a progression yet" as "I don't have an updated progression yet" because it only makes sense to me that if that's what you'd meant, you would just

say it

! I really don't think that's unreasonable that you should just say what you mean instead of leaving it up to interpretation in a game about communication! And I don't think it's fair that you're attacking me for being literal minded!

i thought i might have been confusing here, but going back to check, no, actually. you were the first one to refer to it simply as "progression". in 1773, you said "This is such a wild progression", clearly referring to me going from "leaning on town!three" to voting you. my response "i haven't had a progression on you yet" was replying to that, saying that i haven't given out my reasoning yet (so it's lowkey unfair to assume the progression is scummy etc), to which you then responded with that i have had a progression on you because i've mentioned you in my iso or whatever.

like, you were the first one to bring up a progression, and i was replying to that. it's not about you being literal minded, it's about you forgetting your own questioning

i'm feeling chiller now so it's not annoying me as much as it was earlier today, but it still doesn't take away from the fact that you kinda voted me and called my progression ~wild~ (implying it's scummy) before even hearing it

i'm getting heated because a good part of the game is not playing, so if they're town the game is unnecessarily harder, wiki is being denser than a neutron star and refusing to listen to *anything reasonable* someone else is saying, and i'm seeing so much pussyfooting around my slot but almost nobody is willing to actually go and talk to me or argue

like how tf am i supposed to not get pissed at this game?

???

You're literally scum reading me and saying I'm attacking you for doing exactly what you're asking people to do. Maybe people don't want to deal with you because you're throwing your weight around and lashing out at anyone who dares to try to read you or argue with you?

nope, i'm scumreading and attacking you for cherrypicking and misrepping the everloving shit out of my post when you realized the thread might want to yeet me.

[Datisi]

At this point I think I know what A50 is doing (if i'm wrong then i'll look really stupid postgame )
I wasn't entirely sure if what he was doing comes from scum a50 or town a50.

Datisi thinks anyone with a read of A50 is lying basically, but somehow neglects to address this? Why?

how is that a read on A50
it literally quotes 'i have no idea from which allignment this comes'

They’re saying that now, after calling A50 Scum and saying their WIM indicates Scum and shading there repeatedly. Why is that being ignored?

same reason i'm ignoring ico and wiki and whoever else expressed a negative read on a50 (and before you ask, no i didn't call out ico for his a50 vote, i called him out for the timing of it, much different). i don't think that kind of lying necessarily comes from scum.

when i say "they're lying if they've got a read on a50", i mean that they're either lying us or lying themselves. up to that point, a50's posted nothing truly ai (at least in my experience). maybe someone sees it differently, i'm certainly not *surprised* by scumreads there, but i'm saying i don't think his behaviour is ai and they're fooling themselves if they think their read is any solid there (assuming they're town, obviously).

and re: your 1932 - that makes sense, thank you. i agree it's unlikely scum behaviour, i have seen it a few times, but sel doesn't strike me as the sort of veteran scum to do that. it's got me thinking though, if it turns out that dwlee is scum, does that increase the odds of sel being a partner who decided to distance against a townread buddy... we'll cross that bridge if we get to it i guess.

[Datisi]

I don’t buy in the least that Datisi thinks they could get you mis-executed easily and not pay any price for it.

i can guarantee you that scumtisi has never in his life once thought that.

that being said, iconeum is probably the number one threat to scum!me in this playerlist. while solo pushing town!ico to execution is something scum!me isn't suicidal enough for, you're mistaken if you think that i wouldn't try to take the opportunity to *help* get him misyeeted if others started scumreading him. hell, i've done it before.

also, inb4 anyone asks, "how do you know so well what you would do against town!ico? r u scumz?", i had a huge red streak last year, and about 2/3rds of those games had town!ico in them. so like, i know.

[T3]

How about this....give me your most convincing scumread and like 2 or 3 sentences and I'll tell you if you're town off of it

three

he made some posts that came off as manipulative
he is approaching the game from a pov that assumes stuff

Outside of DW who you have Town locked from meta, who do you think is Town?

you
wiki
looker

then like
maybe datisi

[T3]

there are just so many lurkers and people not doing anything that my reads aren't very solid

[Datisi]

wouldn't it be really fucking hilarious if i now said that i think dorsey is town?

i think it would

(:

VOTE: three

scum!three spews dorsey!town and three just nosedived in my reads

will properly explain within the next 1-5 business hours, stay tuned

I did what now? Dorsey is one of my scum reads?? You

just

said I was town ten hours prior to this, and now you're convinced that I'm scum? This is such a wild progression lmao. The more you post about me the more I just think you're full of shit.

VOTE: Datisi

And for the record, Three actually has a point here. Datisi arguing that Three nosedived because they spewed Dorsey Town really doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

good thing that's not what i'm arguing. they nosedived because of the shit i went into earlier. them being scum spews dorsey town, because i don't think they're scum/scum.

[Datisi]

then like
maybe datisi

why am i a maybe? i feel like you called some bits of my posting town quite a few times recently.

[Datisi]

Datisi has voted Selynee (who I TR’ed), Three (who I TR’ed, though not strongly), Dorsey (who I also TR’ed based on the emotions I’m perceiving in their content), and geraintm (Null).

andres, why am i still getting ignored wrt this?

i can agree on you saying i'm thinking three and dorsey are scummy. i currently think three is scum, and while i currently do think dorsey is probably town, they're still acting scummy as shit and i'd be voting them no problem.

however. i voted sel at the beginning of the game. then i reevaluated her and called her town. i'm currently not thinking about voting there. why are you still dragging along my vote? i asked you if you thought something about that vote in particular was bad, or if you thought i should've been townreading her or something, no response, and you're still citing the vote as a reason to scumread me.

similar story with geraintm, i voted him when he was acting scummy, then he started acting as i know town!him, so i unvoted him, and am also not really thinking about voting there either now. not only that,

you also agreed that my reasoning against him was sound

, so why is me voting your nullread for reasoning you thought was good apparently a point against me?

[T3]

Wow, an explosion of posts and wagon shifts to protect Datisi. That was quick. VOTE: Datisi

I jump off A50 and now all of a sudden he's scum. Datisi is the manipulator. He's also the one calling people "fucking morons" and "purposefully ignorant".

this is going into conspiracy theory level territory

[Andresvmb]

If I see that a player is acting Townier and Townier as the game goes on, to the point were people are forced to change their stances around a player, then early attempts to sideline them or push them for execution could be thought of as coming from Scum. After all, Scum want to get a mis-execution above having to execute their own Partners. It’s the same reasoning I would apply to anyone that pushed Dorsey in hindsight (particularly if Dorsey flips Town, but I have to assume it in part given my perception of the slot).

Does that make sense?

@Datisi, this paragraph is literally the explanation as to why I’m still dragging your Selynee vote despite your re-evaluation. You can be annoyed all you want, but stop repeating ad naseum I’m not responding to something when I have.

[T3]

And @Andres, because clearly Datisi is the boss.

You know we can vote wherever we want right? Every single possible wagon has been tried by certain players but nobody is really touching my T3 case, there hasn’t been much of a disagreement from anyone really, and T3 is just constantly sheeping whatever they think will get through instead of them.

how is what i did sheeping