Shakespeare uPick | End

[Bowser Jr.]

Looking at the bolded, can you explain why you've defaulted to "this is why scum!Spiffy would interact with me this way" instead of "since I haven't played with Spiffy before this is NAI overall"? If I haven't played with you before, it would stand to reason that as either alignment I am unfamiliar with you and could react this way as Town or Scum?

Meta is all fine and good, but let's not do the thing where we pretend having a read on someone you dont know is impossible.

Luckily that is not what I implied whatsoever. If you keep reading, I make the point in the very next paragraph that the statement I pointed out contributes to a pattern I noticed and was the basis for my scum read on him.

And yes, to be clear I am conflicted on my DV read and am fine to wait and see with him for now.

You’re welcome to take the self meta with a grain of salt, I get it. But it is accurate no matter how many times people want to grumble about it and I wouldn’t be surprised if scum try to use it against us to justify a safe and continued suspicion of our slot!

[Bowser Jr.]

~Spiffy

[Juliet Capulet]

Sir Spiffy can you explain the crux of your DV scumread in a short sentence?

my eyes have glazed over a bit and I'm afraid I've lost the thread of what you're trying to say.

[Tamora's Angel]

Posting from main to say I am in severe pain IRL and will be trying to sleep it out vs. staying up trying to fix it (also I need to actually go to the chiropractor because I haven’t been in over a month and I’m pretty sure that’s why I’m in so much pain now)
That also means no content from me tonight like I initially wanted to do

I hope you get better soon. I won't judge you.

[Tamora's Angel]

I think Bowser's last post suggests he's town. Scum may hedge, but they usually don't hedge like Bowser did.

[Tamora's Angel]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Not convinced DV is town. Would like to know. I get weird vibes although the reads list was okay.

That should say would like to know DV's experience with spiffy.

I feel these posts make Galron town.

[Tamora's Angel]

I'm not sure about DV's readlist.

I don't get why he's not concerned about JC. His read on On the Hook appears to be similar to JC, but differing treatment.
His apology to Skybird for scumreading her doesn't make sense unless they have baggage of somesort and I haven't seen that.
His reads on me and Wisdom are baseless and he admits it. The fact he admits it is slightly in his favor but could be just in your face scummy.

[Tamora's Angel]

I like Cephrir as town.

[Tamora's Angel]

Inclined to give CoF time to see that ISO but not 100% opposed to that wagon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Galron

[GuiltyLion]

Hot Takes:
Pav is Town
Icebox is Town
Bowser Jr. is Town

Guilty Lion is giving me mixed signals - I keep seeing things that give me a gut town reaction followed by posts that give me a gut scum reaction.

DeasVail is Scum
Off the Hook is maybe Scum - I wish Marci was posting more as either alignment, because I feel like she can both obvtown and obvscum if she just goes for it.

Child of Fairies is confusing, but has been confusing to me in every game I have encountered them (including a game where they replaced me on a rep out, so while reading along I knew their alignment for a fact)

I have very little thoughts on anyone else yet.

couple thoughts for you Luke

first - I don't agree with your scumread on DV at all - his reasoning seems genuine and transparent to me and I don't sense that he's playing with any kind of agenda. what is it in his posts that you can't see as town-indicative? I can understand Bowser Jr scumreading him (assuming Bowser Jr is town) because DV was pushing their own slot, but the reasons you gave for suspecting him are:

1) his early pushback on your reasoning for your marci scumread
2) saying he "agreed" with LLD

I already voiced my opinion on 2 in 281 and I thought DV's response to you in 255 made sense and deserves a reply. I don't think your reasons to vote him are as convincing as you seem to believe they are, and that disconnect doesn't make me feel good about you.

second - this last bit on COF caught my attention. You aren't committing to a read in any direction, and you didn't mention whether those previous games were COF-town, COF-scum, or a mix of both - what did you want us to take from you calling COF confusing? do you support a wagon there?

[Icebox]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

[GuiltyLion]

Wait gif is in this game?

Ohh icebox nice

Wheme wagon is dying, but this is another point for town!Wheme - unless he's faking this thought process completely, I think scum would be more likely to pay attention to who is in the game as a hydra than town would. This would also probably spew Icebox as town on a scum!Wheme flip (though I don't think anyone suspects icebox), and generally scum want to keep as many players potentially aligned with them as possible.

@Skybird, since you asked for reasons to townread Wheme

[Off The Hook]

Hey Bell or marci you wanna chat? I have nothing in mind but I would like you both to say things to me that will get me more engaged <------- This is an open invitation to anyone itg that happens to be around!

u can try talking w me whenever... tho when ill respond.... isnt promised thatll be quick..

why does suspicion = criticism? Why does agreement = buddying?

So many things are suddenly becoming other things and it reeks of creating narratives where no such narratives exist

This post illustrates a pattern with your approach to us so far: in the post where you vote us, you seem to take issue with the post where I list out all my townreads and ask for a few of them to engage with me about the game. You immediately assume the worst and claim that we are trying to get in a townbloc instead of just having some town reads and wanting to talk to them about the game.

The above quoted post paints my actions as “creating narratives” which feels like a reach and is a buzz-phrase that gives you a convenient excuse to double down on your vote as our wagon grows.

I understand that the nature of mafia requires you to look for scum motivation in everyone’s posts, but your handling of your push on us in both these cases feels like you came into the read with the intention of scum reading us and are looking for things that will reinforce that. This, along with my point about LLD above, makes me happy to

VOTE: DeasVail

Also 47 hours until all votes on us must be removed.

~Spiffy

i like deasvail i think his posts are reasonable

also, UNVOTE:

Don't want an early hammer, and my initial vote on this slot was a joke vote.

what's your current read on Wheme

I realllyyyy don't like that you unvoted without voting elsewhere, all that does is kill pressure/momentum on wheme. especially given you're not chasing another scumread instead, by not voting you're failing to generate any information

Wheme could go either way imo, he's posting a fair amount given the standards of this game but it feels like he's not really saying much. The only really interesting thing in his iso is the fact that he says has a post restriction, first with no prompting and second in response to LLD clearly having a severe one. I'd be interested in what it actually is, since he can clearly still post, talk, and vote normally, and everybody this day has a soft post restriction so I doubt it'd be the same thing for him of "can't post more than x times". If he had just mentioned it after LLD's came up I'd say it's more likely to be a lie and he's crumbing to get his wagon off, but he did claim it in one of his first posts so I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not super big on his wagon since it's pretty much all naked votes with no reasoning or attempt to engage him, so it feels like we're really not getting anything out of it right now even though he's got a lot of votes on him. I'm not super secure on Wheme being town but I also don't like the wagon on him since it feels lazy, which doesn't seem town motivated to me.

Gonna reread some isos, be back later.

i like this post AA

Off the Hook is maybe Scum - I wish Marci was posting more as either alignment, because I feel like she can both obvtown and obvscum if she just goes for it.

Spoiler: pav click on this as well pretty please :oops:

347 i dont think those are super hot takes bestie can u come back with something fresh out of the oven :/

{Pavowski, Lukewarm, marci/Gamma, Bell/GIF, GuiltyLion, Skybird}

Add Ceph, strongest read is Marci followed by you despite you being a towel, followed by pavowski into lukewarm into guilty, then skybird into ceph

I think wheme is probscum at this point.

I could go with Pav, Icebox, GuiltyLion, Skybird as town. LLD can be town for the day. Same with Wheme.

Ceph I am warming up to adding to a townblock but not quite there.

I can't get there with Lukewarm.

This post screams TMI IMO FYI LOL BRB

im confused (: can u explain how its tmi instead of just a reads post..?

Let's do this thing!

People who I think are town:

LLD (lol, it's basically a meme at this point)
Icebox
Pavowski
GuiltyLion
Lukewarm

explain on the lukewarm bit bestie

~M★

[GuiltyLion]

I could go with Pav, Icebox, GuiltyLion, Skybird as town. LLD can be town for the day. Same with Wheme.

Ceph I am warming up to adding to a townblock but not quite there.

I can't get there with Lukewarm.

why is Skybird town?

[Wisdom]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

Still is

[Lukewarm]

couple thoughts for you Luke

first - I don't agree with your scumread on DV at all - his reasoning seems genuine and transparent to me and I don't sense that he's playing with any kind of agenda. what is it in his posts that you can't see as town-indicative?

I can understand Bowser Jr scumreading him (assuming Bowser Jr is town) because DV was pushing their own slot

, but the reasons you gave for suspecting him are:

1) his early pushback on your reasoning for your marci scumread
2) saying he "agreed" with LLD

I already voiced my opinion on 2 in 281 and I thought DV's response to you in 255 made sense and deserves a reply. I don't think your reasons to vote him are as convincing as you seem to believe they are, and

that disconnect doesn't make me feel good about you.

second - this last bit on COF caught my attention. You aren't committing to a read in any direction, and you didn't mention whether those previous games were COF-town, COF-scum, or a mix of both - what did you want us to take from you calling COF confusing? do you support a wagon there?

Re:the bolded #1, this seems to imply that town only build scum reads on people pushing them, which I am sure that you don't mean (right?), but I am not sure how else to that that other then "they are not pushing you, so you should not be scum reading them" which is pretty meh...

Re:the bolded #2, that sure feels like "if your reads are not the same as mine, I am gonna consider scum reading you" which is also pretty meh... Or possibly, "if you don't have a rock solid foundation on your day 1 scum read, then I might start thinking you are scum" which is also meh....

So all in all, not a fan of this post my friend.

As for Child of Fairies, my point was that based off of my past games with them, I have absolutely no idea how to read them. And I feel like the things people have pointed out are things that I both 1)usually find scummy, but also 2)have seen from confined town CoF, so :shrug emoji:

A write up of my DV thoughts is incoming.

[Wisdom]

My brain thought skybird and lukewarm are the same person for some reason

[Lukewarm]

V/LA starting tomorrow through the 31st

Spoiler:

My best friend is getting married, and so I will be out of town all weekend

[GuiltyLion]

I'd say COF and Skybird has scum in it.

This was the contested read for me and spiffs

I didn’t like when they asked for clarification from Pavoski about the votes. I felt like it showed them not trying to pay attention which looks weird from someone trying to solve

But spiffs also missed it so no clue. He liked the same post I didn’t like.

Ninja-
Heh, mentioning the same part

I'm thinking a lot about this post, dissonance over this point/read on COF strikes me as something that would be quite subtle to fake as scum. Especially since I don't think I can find Spiff mentioning anything in thread about COF or liking that post - I only quick skimmed the ISO but I don't see it there, someone please shout if I missed it.

Regardless, I'm going to go back to COF, I think it's a good wagon and I think COF completely missing the context/joke in Pav's Bowser vote is probably the most indicative thing so far. Townies don't tend to misunderstand/miss things like that, whereas scum that's coasting and more focused on finding inconsistencies in people's ISOs or avenues to scumread people can be prone to making such an error. Kinda reminds me of my last scum game where I snip quoted a post and asked the player for a read that fae had given in the very post that I quoted

VOTE: Child of Fairies

[Wisdom]

VOTE: cof

sure

[GuiltyLion]

Re:the bolded #1, this seems to imply that town only build scum reads on people pushing them, which I am sure that you don't mean (right?), but I am not sure how else to that that other then "they are not pushing you, so you should not be scum reading them" which is pretty meh...

Re:the bolded #2, that sure feels like "if your reads are not the same as mine, I am gonna consider scum reading you" which is also pretty meh... Or possibly, "if you don't have a rock solid foundation on your day 1 scum read, then I might start thinking you are scum" which is also meh....

So all in all, not a fan of this post my friend.

I don't think you could have misrepped me harder if you tried, lol

1) nowhere did I say "only town build scumreads on people pushing them", what I said was more akin to "I can understand why a townie in their shoes would suspect DV". I didn't say that made them NOT scum, just that I could see it coming from town

2) I mean, if you want to pretend I said those things, go ahead, but that's absolutely not what I said. Where I am coming from is DV is one of my most solid townreads in the game at the moment, and you are suspecting that slot for reasons that strike me as notably flimsy. If you can't understand why that would lead to a decaying read on your own slot, especially when you try to throw it back at me when I give you a genuine reach out, well...

[GuiltyLion]

but also 2)have seen from confined town CoF

actually can you link me to the confirmed town COF ISOs you're thinking of though? If they're historically a careless player (in the sense of missing obvious jokes/context) then that might weaken my read

[fferyllt]

tush

[fferyllt]

tut