Shakespeare uPick | End

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 1-8

What lackwit garbed Falstaff in such unseemly clothes? He's a knight of the realm! Are you not ashamed? Let the clothes alone.

Falstaff and Pistol

Falstaff:

Pistol!

Pistol:

He hears with ears.

Sir Hugh Evans:

The tevil and his tam! what phrase is this, 'He
hears with ear'? why, it is affectations.

Falstaff:

Pistol, did you pick Master Slender's purse?

Slender:

Ay, by these gloves, did he, or I would I might
never come in mine own great chamber again else, of
seven groats in mill-sixpences, and two Edward
shovel-boards, that cost me two shilling and two
pence apiece of Yead Miller, by these gloves.

Falstaff:

Is this true, Pistol?

Sir Hugh Evans:

No; it is false, if it is a pick-purse.

Pistol:

Ha, thou mountain-foreigner! Sir John and Master mine,
I combat challenge of this latten bilbo.
Word of denial in thy labras here!
Word of denial: froth and scum, thou liest!

DeasVail

(3): Galron, Bowser Jr., Lukewarm

Child of Fairies

(3): Cephrir, GuiltyLion, Wisdom

WhemeStar

(2): Off The Hook, Pavowski

Bowser Jr.

(2): DeasVail, Dunnstral

Lukewarm

(1): Tamora's Angel

GuiltyLion

(1): Juliet Capulet

Galron

(1): Lady Lambdadelta

Skybird

(1): WhemeStar

Juliet Capulet

(1): Skybird

Not Voting

(2): Icebox, Child of Fairies

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to eliminate.

Deadline: November 3, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-11-03 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

-

[Lukewarm]

If you can't understand why that would lead to a decaying read on your own slot, especially when you try to throw it back at me when I give you a genuine reach out, well

I still don't think our day 1 reads not being the same is a solid reason for a decaying read on anyone. As for the genuine reach out, I think you missed the end of that post where I said that I was actively working on a long form post explaining my thoughts on DV (because up to this point, I have yet to do that).

but also 2)have seen from confined town CoF

actually can you link me to the confirmed town COF ISOs you're thinking of though? If they're historically a careless player (in the sense of missing obvious jokes/context) then that might weaken my read

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87498

This is the one I was currently thinking of. They were in a slot that had been mod confirmed town (loud parity cop with a now flipped slot) plus they had replaced my own so, I had seen their role pm, and damn if I did not think half their posts were scummy.

[Galron]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Not convinced DV is town. Would like to know. I get weird vibes although the reads list was okay.

That should say would like to know DV's experience with spiffy.

I feel these posts make Galron town.

Can you explain? I could post this as either alignment.

[Galron]

Luke: I don't think anyone answered my question about whether you've been TvS wrt Pav other than Popcorn.

[Galron]

Wait gif is in this game?

Ohh icebox nice

Wheme wagon is dying, but this is another point for town!Wheme - unless he's faking this thought process completely, I think scum would be more likely to pay attention to who is in the game as a hydra than town would. This would also probably spew Icebox as town on a scum!Wheme flip (though I don't think anyone suspects icebox), and generally scum want to keep as many players potentially aligned with them as possible.

@Skybird, since you asked for reasons to townread Wheme

FWIW I keep forgetting players too. I think you're town, GL, but this rule sounds like it comes from The Book of Mafia so I don't think it's all that compelling.

[Galron]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

You mean he doesn't tunnel? He wrecked scum!me one game by tunneling.

[Galron]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

Still is

Did I just read something wrong?

[Galron]

Vote: Galron

Hey there.

[Wisdom]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

You mean he doesn't tunnel? He wrecked scum!me one game by tunneling.

We've played before astral?

[Lukewarm]

Luke: I don't think anyone answered my question about whether you've been TvS wrt Pav other than Popcorn.

Pav and I have been in 5 games together. 2 both of us were town, 2 with me as scum, one with him as scum

--

Other than Popcorn, have you two ever been TvS? You and Pav I mean.

We've actually only *not* been TvS once, and that was a game I repped into that ended very shortly thereafter. Hardly counts.

Is this the game? Can't tell yet.

There was also Not_Mafia's exploder game where you were killed before I ever got a chance to post

[Lukewarm]

~~My thoughts on Deasvail~~

I did not like their entrance. The page 4 list of scum reads on page 4 did not feel real, looked more like names picked out of a hat (which they later basically admitted to) - but whatever, we were in rvs, so wasn't a major factor, just a "bad taste in the mouth" kinda thing.

Post 130/131 were the ones that actually struck me as scummy tho. Their justification on why they voted Child of Fairies felt super forced, but was also presented like it was a serious reason. Looked more like they were put on the spot when asked why they voted child of fairies. Then 131 also felt wild. Can you tell me what Skybird had done up to that point to earn that? Also, why were they in the scum list to begin with? I don't know.

Both things made me look back at that original list, and reinforced the feeling that they were just "pulled out of a hat" but then when you questioned them about them, they went back and were like "wait, I actually need to have reasons for scum reads" so they found a reason of OTH and they found a reason for COF, but then could not find a reason for Skybird, so they pulled them off the list.

So, that was enough that I was willing to vote, but was focused more on Marci at the time, so I kinda just made a note of it for later.

@DV, why was Skybird on that list to begin with? and why were they taken off in 131?

-----------------

Then the next post that pinged me was 209, which I called them out for. 209 just does not look like it is coming from someone who is sorting Off The Hook themselves. They make no stance on OTH's alignment, they don't come back with their own reasons to think they might be scum, they also don't come back with any reasons why they might think they could be town. And remember, OTH was in their own scum list, so I feel like they should have had Some thoughts on the slot. It felt like a "I don't like your reasons" and move on, instead of engaging in a way that made me think they were trying to sort OTH or in a way that made me think they were trying to sort me.

Side note for Guilty Lion, what in 255 do you think deserved my response? There is still no read on the slot coming from them. Just "I am conflcted" with out any of the reasons that make them conflicted - what made them think it could be town, what makes them think they could be scum? Idk, I just know that they are conflicted. And its like, here I was talking about trying to sort them, they think my reasons are bad, but there was still no hint of "well did you consider X reason to think that they could be [town/scum]"

My response to that post was to take note of it and move on.

---------------

Then the most recent think to add to the "reasons I think they might be scum" was the stuff with LLD.

LLD's post

Spoiler:

The following players have made me feel good about them at some point in this game: {Pavowski, Lukewarm, marci/Gamma, Bell/GIF, GuiltyLion, Skybird}

I am proud of each and every one of you for your achievements.

Hey Bell or marci you wanna chat? I have nothing in mind but I would like you both to say things to me that will get me more engaged <------- This is an open invitation to anyone itg that happens to be around!

~Spiffy

Vote: Bowser Jr.

DV's original vote post

Spoiler:

UNVOTE: Child of Fairies
VOTE: Bowser Jr.

This is not really indication of a change of read on CoF, but more that Bowser Jr. seems to be trying oh so hard to insert themselves into some kind of cool kids towncore despite not really doing anything town.

Which, you know what, maybe that is basically what LLD meant with their vote. Hard to say for sure with LLD not posting anything but votes (even when I reached out to her )
But okay, lets say that that is her reason. What was the purpose of 257? Didn't they just basically outline their issue with the same post LLD took issue with? How is this something new being added? Felt weird and bad and I did not like it.

But lets look at thier response (which is where I finally decided it was time to vote them over Marci/Gamma)

I feel offended on both my own and LLD’s behalf as a result of this post.

Step 1, they are offended at the idea that Spiffy would think it preposterous and suspicious that they were agreeing with LLD.

First of all, of course it's slightly ridiculous to say that I agree with someone who has not done anything other than voting, you're falling for easy bait. (I mostly said that I agreed with LLD because I thought it would be funny)

Step 2, actually it is rediculous, and actually it was just a joke to begin with anyways (in which case, what the hell were they offended over in 344??)

But actually I think that LLD has been fairly clear in her opinion of the Bowser Jr. slot and the posts that LLD has obviously been bothered by are the same that have bothered me.

This was made worse by 270, which both invalidates LLD's opinions (again I think that LLD has actually been a lot clearer in her opinions than Bowser Jr has given her credit for)

Step 3, but actually actually, my original agreement with LLD made perfect sense and was very justified, because despite only voting, LLD has been very clear when they quoted that post and voted over it.

What happened to "of course its rediculous" or its "easy bait" or "I mostly said it because it would be funny"??

-----

There is just such a disconnect between 1, 2, and 3 that I find it hard to swallow that they believe what they are saying, and think they are just throwing shit at the wall to see what will stick to get any pressure off of them.

[DeasVail]

I think Bowser's last post suggests he's town. Scum may hedge, but they usually don't hedge like Bowser did.

I like this post and other thoughts from Tamora's Angel.

I also think that my time of suspecting Bowser Jr. has come to an end.

UNVOTE: Bowser Jr.

I am likely to be re-evaluating my reads but CoF getting votes is something I'm okay with.

Lukewarm was a townread for me because I've gotten the very strong impression that he truly believes that I'm scum. The questions about what my exact thought process was in early posts that I made are excessive and OTT and I don't feel like answering them right now, but I very much think that it comes from a town thought process.

[Lukewarm]

The questions about what my exact thought process was in early posts that I made are excessive and OTT and I don't feel like answering them right now

Wild

[DeasVail]

I can't help but be provocative sometimes!

I'll answer them soon though, I promise.

[DeasVail]

@DV, why was Skybird on that list to begin with? and why were they taken off in 131?

Is there anything more than 196 that you need here?

If there is, then I probably don't have anything for you. Because that probably sums up my thoughts at the time. There wasn't much.

[Pavowski]

Wheme wagon is stale. CoF wagon is hot. Nothing particularly towny in their ISO.

VOTE: CoF or wow me with some dank reads.

Also, you should vote somewhere.

[Bowser Jr.]

I also think that my time of suspecting Bowser Jr. has come to an end.

UNVOTE: Bowser Jr.

Can you elaborate here? Are you now townreading us, and if so, what changed your mind?

You've gone from painting almost everything I've posted as scummy to dropping it suddenly and unceremoniously.

~Spiffy

[Off The Hook]

VOTE: skybird


~M★

[Juliet Capulet]

Spiffy why do you think DV is Mafia?

[Galron]

why not

VOTE: cof

[Galron]

Wheme wagon is stale. CoF wagon is hot. Nothing particularly towny in their ISO.

VOTE: CoF or wow me with some dank reads.

Also, you should vote somewhere.

Sry I'm not really caught up if I missed it, but are you town reading Wheme?

[Galron]

Luke: I don't think anyone answered my question about whether you've been TvS wrt Pav other than Popcorn.

Pav and I have been in 5 games together. 2 both of us were town, 2 with me as scum, one with him as scum

--

Other than Popcorn, have you two ever been TvS? You and Pav I mean.

We've actually only *not* been TvS once, and that was a game I repped into that ended very shortly thereafter. Hardly counts.

Is this the game? Can't tell yet.

There was also Not_Mafia's exploder game where you were killed before I ever got a chance to post

Thanks for this btw.

When you play with Pav do you start with a bias as to what his alignment is?

[Icebox]

379 gives me hives.

Also, Wis. Are you okay? I don't think I've ever seen you this inactive as either alignment before. Have you really not found anything to latch onto?

-Bell

[Galron]

anyone else having trouble parsing the shakespeare english?

YES

VOTE: GuiltyLion

Any reasoning for this one? GL seems fine to me.

Good question.

Bowser Jr., Off The Hook, Child of Fairies, Skybird

Are these scumreads?

If they are, why vote COF over Off the Hook?

Yeah sort of. At this stage it feels a lot like picking names out of a hat and thinking "uhhhh this feels okay", but yes.

Off The Hook is probably the slot I'm least concerned about out of those 4, actually? I'm not sure why I need to be told what Gamma thinks without Gamma actually posting it but apart from that it's just weird appeasement vibes which might not mean much.

Child of Fairies is more interesting to me because of their interpretation that posts are difficult to parse. A very small proportion of posts so far are "Shakespearian" and honestly less than I would have expected going into a Shakespeare-themed game. If anything, the game has been easier to read than most other recent games I've played so it leads me to question where Child of Fairies' post is coming from. Is it an awkward attempt at light banter? Is Child of Fairies scum, feeling uncomfortable about that, and also more uncomfortable about posts that are more difficult to read as a result? I don't know, and I'm eager to find out!

I never said that. I said that I was having difficulty parsing the Shakespeare posts (namely the sonnets, but A for effort) and if anyone else was. All the other posts are pretty standard early-game stuff, which are perfectly readable.

My thirst is not quenched
There remains discontent

Then let's talk it out. What makes you discontented?

Focuses on DV rather than the substance.

I have very little idea of what you think. You have asked Juliet for reasoning on the GuiltyLion vote, saying that they seem “fine” to you. But what does this mean? Would you expect GL as scum to be not “fine”?

I get lots of goodfeels from DV's 130, I had the same issues with COF's 100 (which was what prompted my 102), and while my question to DV was meant more in the spirit of "why vanity vote instead of joining my wagon" I totally resonate with his summary of the bad vibe from COF.

DV's follow up 161 is also a super townie post

VOTE: Child of Fairies

I also had a thought that if COF is scum, he might be more likely to say that I "seem fine" if I'm currently pushing on a town!OTS. may be a bit too much of a reach so I'ma sleep on it but the idea has taken hold in my head

He's/you've been active and trying to solve this early, when there's basically nothing to go on. That's fine points in my book. You currently seem to be the most townread player in the game, so I'm curious as to what about me specifically saying this pinged you.

also, UNVOTE:

Don't want an early hammer, and my initial vote on this slot was a joke vote.

You’re a towel

VOTE: Bowser

I enjoyed that

We now resume our regularly scheduled programming

VOTE: Wheme

what changed between a single post by neither of these people?

Woosh ??

also, UNVOTE:

Don't want an early hammer, and my initial vote on this slot was a joke vote.

what's your current read on Wheme

I realllyyyy don't like that you unvoted without voting elsewhere, all that does is kill pressure/momentum on wheme. especially given you're not chasing another scumread instead, by not voting you're failing to generate any information

Wheme could go either way imo, he's posting a fair amount given the standards of this game but it feels like he's not really saying much. The only really interesting thing in his iso is the fact that he says has a post restriction, first with no prompting and second in response to LLD clearly having a severe one. I'd be interested in what it actually is, since he can clearly still post, talk, and vote normally, and everybody this day has a soft post restriction so I doubt it'd be the same thing for him of "can't post more than x times". If he had just mentioned it after LLD's came up I'd say it's more likely to be a lie and he's crumbing to get his wagon off, but he did claim it in one of his first posts so I'm more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not super big on his wagon since it's pretty much all naked votes with no reasoning or attempt to engage him, so it feels like we're really not getting anything out of it right now even though he's got a lot of votes on him. I'm not super secure on Wheme being town but I also don't like the wagon on him since it feels lazy, which doesn't seem town motivated to me.

Gonna reread some isos, be back later.

Seems super fence-sitty.

[Galron]

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Tunneling is like Wisdom’s signature so no
(At least back then. I don’t know if anything changed now)

You mean he doesn't tunnel? He wrecked scum!me one game by tunneling.

We've played before astral?

I think it's just the one game. if you weren't tunneling, maybe I was just paranoid because it seemed like it.