Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not being contrary and I don't auto town read low effort and lurking. Emmi's thought process to read towards finding townreads fits with a town mental pattern, and Strange has posts that I look at and read gut town to me.

Where as Venus' reads don't fucking make any sense when i read them. They just don't.

The reason I didn't pick to kill you, Wisdom, is when I read your reads, your reads fucking make sense.

And you famously don't even explain them, but the process makes SENSE.

Just having reads to regurgitate doesn't mean your reads are coming from a town place.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But I only get one shot.

Its like youve locked yourself in this mindset where youre treating this like a vig shot

Its not

Its a lim

And we should keep town cohesion and lim scum

When you roll vig you can break cohesion and shoot whatever moonlogic reada you have (hopefully without me in the game)

Now's not the time

The problem you don't seem to get is that I can think EMMI and Strange are town and Venus is scum and not be doing it from a place of contrarianism, but rather that I have developed those reads based on things I'm seeing that you're not.

It's not moonlogic, I just value different things.

[Wisdom]

What reads dont make sense to you?

[Wisdom]

Like the first time they posted reads they were near identical to mine

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like you're finally trying to compromise with me after days of me telling you that you can't just force an elimination past me today,

and you're still insulting me, when I'm trying to consider your view point.

Literally I have been open minded about changing my choice all day and between you and Mathblade the both of ye have done nothing but be infuriating and give me no reason to reconsider.

Tell me what IN PARTICULAR about Strange is bad to you. Tell me what parts of Venus' reads feel genuine and why.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like the first time they posted reads they were near identical to mine

Are you not the one who stood against me killing Milk and Mocha?

Cause that's one of their 2 scumreads from when they made their reads list.

[Wisdom]

Your reads are very similar to mine but you disappoint me with the mm read

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like they scum read EMMI and SM and find MM's trolling weird and not town, and keep their vote on MM the entire day until they're pushed.

Is that a true or false statement, Wisdom? Answer me that, at least.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Your reads are very similar to mine but you disappoint me with the mm read

So then why did they keep their vote on MM the whole day and do nothing to pressure EMMI or Strange (OR EVEN S_S) who they expresseed stronger scum reads on each time.

[Wisdom]

Because MM is a juicier slot than two lurker slots?
I dont know
Why are you saying that as if its scum indicative

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Their reads don't make sense with their play. Their reads are on a subset of lurking players who they can hedge on because it's REAL EASY to take those stances on players who show very little. Their stated reasons for scum reading them boil down to each time "not enough engagement, bad engagement" but then they never follow up.

[Wisdom]

You can say the same about my reads
Yet im not scum
Poeing out lurkerscum is not a crime

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Because MM is a juicier slot than two lurker slots?
I dont know
Why are you saying that as if its scum indicative

Because it is. If MM is town, calling the lurkers scummy and then pushing MM first is a scum move.

If the lurkers are town, they are saving those miseliminations for later because they're easier and removing Pooky now, who is notoriously hard to kill.

If the lurkers are scum, they're leaving a scumread on a lurking slot and pushing a townie over them, despite a stronger stated scumread.

Neither of these are town motivations.

The only reason to push Pooky over any of those slots for THAT LONG is if you felt that Pooky/Noraa was scummier and needed more pressure but they have the LURKERS as scummier and wouldn't putting pressure on the lurker slots to create content or die in that scenario with their reads make more sense as a town perspecitve?

Their internal logic DOESN'T MAKE SENSE to me.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You can say the same about my reads
Yet im not scum
Poeing out lurkerscum is not a crime

No but you're actively pursuing the lurkers. You have scum reads and are approaching them top down.

You're not calling those 2 scum and then saying "actually MM is scummy too let's go there first".

You're doing MM on compromise only.

[Wisdom]

Have they actually actively pushed for a mm lim? Because i dont think so
Youre just saying that based on their vote staying there, which I find ok if they havent found a reason to townread mm

[Wisdom]

And by ok i mean not scummy @venus
Its not ok that you havent voted emmi yet if you want a lim to happen

[Dunnstral]

We're doing VFT today. At this point the positioning and posturing around the wagon will tell us more than anything else, and it has a decent shot of hitting scum.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, and I have an okay chance of being wrong, but I'm better than random to be right here, IMO, and it tells us a lot either way.

No more hesitation. VFT today please folks.

OK.

We can do different things tomorrow. I personally agree that SM feels town but don't agree with Emmi feeling town and could vote there on a later day.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like they scum read EMMI and SM and find MM's trolling weird and not town, and keep their vote on MM the entire day until they're pushed.

Is that a true or false statement, Wisdom? Answer me that, at least.

Your reads are very similar to mine but you disappoint me with the mm read

So then why did they keep their vote on MM the whole day and do nothing to pressure EMMI or Strange (OR EVEN S_S) who they expresseed stronger scum reads on each time.

Their reads don't make sense with their play. Their reads are on a subset of lurking players who they can hedge on because it's REAL EASY to take those stances on players who show very little. Their stated reasons for scum reading them boil down to each time "not enough engagement, bad engagement" but then they never follow up.

Because MM is a juicier slot than two lurker slots?
I dont know
Why are you saying that as if its scum indicative

Because it is. If MM is town, calling the lurkers scummy and then pushing MM first is a scum move.

If the lurkers are town, they are saving those miseliminations for later because they're easier and removing Pooky now, who is notoriously hard to kill.

If the lurkers are scum, they're leaving a scumread on a lurking slot and pushing a townie over them, despite a stronger stated scumread.

Neither of these are town motivations.

The only reason to push Pooky over any of those slots for THAT LONG is if you felt that Pooky/Noraa was scummier and needed more pressure but they have the LURKERS as scummier and wouldn't putting pressure on the lurker slots to create content or die in that scenario with their reads make more sense as a town perspecitve?

Their internal logic DOESN'T MAKE SENSE to me.

I tried to see what you were seeing in the original quick case you posted on VFT after you took a couple days to reread, but was busy at work and didnt understand what you meant by their stance on MM holistically, and didnt get the manufactured feel from.their readslist. I still dont get the manufactured feel but maybe if the readslist was similar to Wisdoms at the time then it was similar to my own and that's why it didnt ping me? Anyways, these posts make a bit more sense and I'll be reconsidering on a reread now with more context as to what I'm looking for

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I guess first off @LLD, in 2032 you said VFT kept their vote on MM until they were pushed. It wasnt clear to me if "they" who were being pushed is MM or VFT. Which was it?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw StrangeMatter where's your head at? I remember noticing you hadn't voted since like your first post pretty much and Gamma seems like a vanity vote even if it's there still in seriousness.

So, who do you suspect (and why)?
If it's not Gamma, why haven't you switched votes yet?

[Critter]

We're doing VFT today. At this point the positioning and posturing around the wagon will tell us more than anything else, and it has a decent shot of hitting scum.

I'm sorry if I'm wrong, and I have an okay chance of being wrong, but I'm better than random to be right here, IMO, and it tells us a lot either way.

No more hesitation. VFT today please folks.

Except imho it has been? The only people on it I haven’t seen argue for VFT and are only on it because you are. I think it is pretty much dead.

[Critter]

its okay lld, one day you'll learn to catch scum d1 and you wont need useless info lims

Why are you such a prick, anyway? You know I've caught scum day 1 before, just like I know you've lost games of mafia before (including to me, as scum!)

You're not perfect, I'm not perfect. I'm doing my diligence to increase town's win % here.

While he’s being a jackass (please stop Wisdom) I kind of get his point here. Why is VFT scum? I get you believe VFT is scum but I like am not there at all.

[Critter]

I agree with like, 3 out of 4 on that list of obvious town. Everyone but Venus.

But sure, let's say I write Venus off at this point.

I think EMMI and Strange are townier than say, Dunn or Mocha. By MILES.

And I don't agree that Venus is that townie.

Like I don't think our reads lists are that far off, it's mostly just that your top suspects EMMI and Strange are in my town pool and my top scum suspect Venus is in your top town pool.

So I can either take my one day alive and in control to take a shot at the person in that pool (Venus) or I can compromise kill someone like Dunnstral with you.

I don't know that compromising gets me anywhere. You will have time to kill EMMI. I have no doubt that if Venus flips town, Strange will die (I think Strange over EMMI first, but you do you).

But I only get one shot.

I disagree with Towelie obvTown here.
I think Mocha is townier than EMMI and Strange. I don’t see scum bears intentionally doing a jester bit and intentionally poking a fight with Gamma. In contrast, EMMI is a null read at best. These past few pages have had almost nothing posted and I get she’s VLA for 2 days now but if I am being generous the last time she posted anything close to content was Wednesday, and even then it wasn’t some shiny beacon of content. It’s something very clear.
Dunn on the other hand I do waffle on. There’s reasons I TR him and reasons I SR him.
Strange is a null entity. I do not remember anything about them.

So my list of those players is
Bears
Dunn/Strange
EMMI

I don’t see how you’re getting Strange or EMMI die at all?

Can you please talk about why you think they’d be a nightkill?

[Critter]

But I only get one shot.

Its like youve locked yourself in this mindset where youre treating this like a vig shot

Its not

Its a lim

And we should keep town cohesion and lim scum

When you roll vig you can break cohesion and shoot whatever moonlogic reada you have (hopefully without me in the game)

Now's not the time

This. I feel this so hard. Like IC is a discussion leader. Not a takeover the day, dayvig. Like you want me to talk about VFT sure let’s do that.

[Critter]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=29653

I think this meta here is almost a dead ringer for what she is posting here. I don’t see VFT scum at all.

Quite honestly if VFT is somehow scum despite all the imho towntelling she’s been doing it almost certainly would need to be with Wisdom or another top townread of mine. I think with how much resistance there is between the two of you there’s no way we have “half” the reads right.