AI UPCIK PART II | Compromised

[Morning Tweet]

i dont really understand what's going on with Dwlee and RR if one is mechanically guilty okay

But if there's any ambiguity i'd rather vote worstie by far especially considering the confusing nature of this game

Why would RR claim something like FN falsely without having knowledge of Dwlee visiting them? I dont really see

[Radical Rat]

As of right now, I don't think there's a mechanical guilty. I did think I had one but it was just my brain not working properly. Dwlee's still probably Town, and I was probably roleblocked, which sucks but that's what I get for publicly announcing an action.

[Dwlee99]

i dont really understand what's going on with Dwlee and RR if one is mechanically guilty okay

But if there's any ambiguity i'd rather vote worstie by far especially considering the confusing nature of this game

Why would RR claim something like FN falsely without having knowledge of Dwlee visiting them? I dont really see

RR claimed it thinking no one had visited them. So they didn't think they could get CC'd on it

[Almost50]

Meanwhile I do have a

mechanical soft guilty

on Gamma who has been active enough elsewhere but ignoring this thread at all costs.

I also have a 95% clear on Pooky from last night, so stop being [redacted] and vote Gamma or tw (who is confirmed Scum by play).

I do have a post that explains my role in details, but I think it best to wait for Gama to FULL CLAIM HIS ROLE NAME AND HOW IT WORKS before I fully claim myself.

ONE THING though: There used to be a time when Scum could hunt for the COP/INVESTIGATIVE by paying attention to sudden changes in reads overnight. Now neither Scum nor Town pay attention to such “minor details”. That's PATHETIC play from both sides tbh.

[Almost50]

Now let me go back to this:

Pooky is still TOWN to me. I suspect Gamma "may" be Scum, but I'm not confident there.

I'm shocked A50 can read me but nobody else apparently can

What made you think I could read you rather than think I investigated you?? Like, when was I ever that good at reading you with any degree of confidence anyway?

[Morning Tweet]

how am i supposed to know which of your reads are bullshit and which are real

[Morning Tweet]

Also I can't say ive ever paid attention to people softing roles as town ever so i dont really get why you're so jaded about it, i dont have much reason to hunt PRs and if i hunt and im wrong then that's even worse

[Radical Rat]

i dont really understand what's going on with Dwlee and RR if one is mechanically guilty okay

But if there's any ambiguity i'd rather vote worstie by far especially considering the confusing nature of this game

Why would RR claim something like FN falsely without having knowledge of Dwlee visiting them? I dont really see

RR claimed it thinking no one had visited them. So they didn't think they could get CC'd on it

I mean, if I were scum trying to pull something like that, I'd just get a buddy to "confirm" it rather than rely on "I can't prove anything anymore but trust me"

[Almost50]

how am i supposed to know which of your reads are bullshit and which are real

When you have me insisting Pooky (of all players) is TOWN out of the blue you should pause for a second and think why that was the case. Especially so when Pooky wasn't in my Town pool on D1.

[Radical Rat]

Now let me go back to this:

Pooky is still TOWN to me. I suspect Gamma "may" be Scum, but I'm not confident there.

I'm shocked A50 can read me but nobody else apparently can

What made you think I could read you rather than think I investigated you?? Like, when was I ever that good at reading you with any degree of confidence anyway?

Do you expect Town players to just go "HEY GUYS I FOUND THE COP" publicly? I can't comprehend why you're so upset no one caught on and prematurely outed you, especially with no proof other than "weird shitposty player has inconsistent reads"

[Almost50]

Also I can't say ive ever paid attention to people softing roles as town ever so i dont really get why you're so jaded about it

Which is why you're not "perfect". Town pays attention so they can read between the lines, but apparently that's not how Mafia is played anymore. Everybody wants a Cop to be useful ONCE at best. They should claim their 1st night result and eat a bullet the next night regardless. Brilliant!

[Radical Rat]

Where is anyone saying any of this???

[Almost50]

I can't comprehend why you're so upset no one caught on and prematurely outed you,

I didn't say OUT ME! I said FOLLOW ME. Like, even the IC insisted on voting my TOP TR whom I've been explicitly insisting they were Town, and mollie even questioned me for not sheeping her unto Pooky. Now THAT is what's annoying me. FOUR people have voted Pooky, including the IC who had me as their TOP TR from the get go, but obviously weren't paying much attention from that point on.

[Almost50]

@RR: Let's just agree to disagree. In fact. let's agree to stay friends outside of Mafia and never to play together again. I find your argument for the sake of argument to be most frustrating. Like, what are you trying to say or prove here? What good is it for the game?

[Almost50]

I wasn't even talking to YOU, so why did you feel the need to interfere with something so meaningless?

[Radical Rat]

Did you actually fake it? Jfc I was pretty sure dotw was town and if Ari is scum I'm giving you shit for it forever

Did you think I was a Day Cop or something?

It's just that I do have something that makes me like 95% confident he is Town.

After your fake inno on Ari, you said this, which sounds an awful lot like what you're claiming on Pooky now. But now you say the worst is scum for voting Pooky without explanation. Is that really enough to undermine whatever 95% clear thing you have, or was the whole thing just entirely faked?


P-edit:

I wasn't even talking to YOU, so why did you feel the need to interfere with something so meaningless?

Because I still have a scumread on you and am trying to figure out how much of your posts to believe, and whether I need to change that read.

[Dwlee99]

i dont really understand what's going on with Dwlee and RR if one is mechanically guilty okay

But if there's any ambiguity i'd rather vote worstie by far especially considering the confusing nature of this game

Why would RR claim something like FN falsely without having knowledge of Dwlee visiting them? I dont really see

RR claimed it thinking no one had visited them. So they didn't think they could get CC'd on it

I mean, if I were scum trying to pull something like that, I'd just get a buddy to "confirm" it rather than rely on "I can't prove anything anymore but trust me"

But then you'd be tying your buddy to yourself

[Radical Rat]

I would, yes. But if I'm going to fake a provable role, I'm going to fake proving it rather than not proving it. Just a big unnecessary risk otherwise.

[Almost50]

@RR: The Ari thing was half a meme and half his ROLE NAME. I am the DEATH KNIGHT. I thought his Role NAME + how it worked was more likely Town than Scum. Plus Ari didn't feel scummy by play, but everyone insisted HIS BLOODY META was to lurk as Scum. when the fact is Ari lurks as either alignments, and he forewarned us he won't be active before the roles where even crafted, let alone distributed, so the very reason EVERYONE was pushing him for was FALSE.

Now I could still be Scum to you (or anyone else who may want to still think it), but if the reason is "I fake claimed an inno" then it's one of the most ridiculous reasons to SR me at all, because I would NOT do that as Scum. Not to save a Scum p. and CERTAINLY NOT TO SAVE SOMEONE I'M NOT ALIGNED WITH.

[Almost50]

I would, yes. But if I'm going to fake a provable role, I'm going to fake proving it rather than not proving it.

Just a big unnecessary risk otherwise

.

This is hypocritic. Not gonna say anything more.

[Radical Rat]

This is a discussion I would like to have more after the game when we can both know we're acting in good faith.

For now though, I will say that the whole fake inno thing isn't the only reason I scumread you, it's just that the big obvious lie right before deadline that forced everyone to quicklim someone no one was really happy with, and got handwaved as a joke was very frustrating to me and indeed a major contributor. I thought you were deliberately trying to pull a "too scummy to be scum" move.

[Radical Rat]

I know I'm not always the best at communicating my thoughts, and I'm sorry if I genuinely upset you here. I'll back off for the time being.

[Morning Tweet]

Yea okay mate, just do what you want. i'll vote gamma or worst

[the 2 mastinas]

Meanwhile I do have a

mechanical soft guilty

on Gamma who has been active enough elsewhere but ignoring this thread at all costs.

I also have a 95% clear on Pooky from last night, so stop being [redacted] and vote Gamma or tw (who is confirmed Scum by play).

I do have a post that explains my role in details, but I think it best to wait for Gama to FULL CLAIM HIS ROLE NAME AND HOW IT WORKS before I fully claim myself.

ONE THING though: There used to be a time when Scum could hunt for the COP/INVESTIGATIVE by paying attention to sudden changes in reads overnight. Now neither Scum nor Town pay attention to such “minor details”. That's PATHETIC play from both sides tbh.

Trying to shame people into doing what you want is slurry turd milkshake playing.

Don't play like a slurry turd milkshake just because some players have a different take on the game, than you.

I hunt specials, it is kind of my thing and I could not pick your hint out of crowd.

Who was your n1? And can you please unpack your thoughts as to why you chose the candidates that you did?

[the 2 mastinas]

2m, aka two mastinas

Hi there. This is mastina writing this, though hopefully, what I send will have mollie's blessing by the time I submit it with mollie having a chance to say everything they want to say as well in here. (We're obviously a bit limited on time given that we only have 48 hours to submit a night post and if we don't use it, we lose it.)

Apologies that this is going to be a wallpost of wallposts, but sadly, we cannot post unlimited during the night phase. We get one 100-character post during the day (thankfully, bbcode doesn't count towards the total, but if it's visible as a letter/number, it counts as a character, so while we can do a fair amount, we still have only a finite amount we can say), and we get one unlimited-character post during the night. Given we only get the one post, we've no choice but to make the unlimited post be a wall with a full day phase's worth of information to go through.
(For clarity, we start the game confirmed to be town aligned, but considered dead, and as we are dead, our communication is limited. Unfortunately a basically-nerfed treestump. So DO try to make the most out of when we DO use our posts, please.)

First off, let's start with this.

During DAY, only 1 100-letter'r

T

A50
GE
Ari
Tits
D99
Meg

LT

Yu

ki

S

ky

sb

9

N

Taro
ND
unw

R

R

S

KT/K
STD
DotW

I was a

little

miffed that the discussion after I posted this was about speculating on our role instead of speculating on our reads. If literally any of you have QUOTED this post, you'd have seen I did the absolute best I could to work around the limited characters by even including links to our scumreads here! (Did you read how I linked to the MegAzumarill posts on Kop? Did you notice the link to STD's scum entrance into the game? The post mollie and I both instantly locked onto as being proof of STD being scum this game? Did you? Because literally nobody said anything about this.)

To go into these reads, Almost50 is a common townread as both mollie and I universally believe this is Almost50 at his absolute towniest he's ever been. He's locktown of locktown.

Aristophanes is not that far behind, so shame on you for repeatedly trying to wagon him in spite of the person who has the best read accuracy on Aristophanes listing Ari as town even before Ari's claim (which shoulda elevated Ari to conftown for y'all). A50 is excluded from this, obv, as he was one of the only slots who

did

listen to us on Ari being town (thanks A50 <3), but Ari is a never-eliminate here.

Titus is mostly a treat-as-town read from us, although she may be higher as town especially from mollie. I particularly liked her entrance into the game with her unwnd suspicion (see below for more on that), mollie thought that Titus's later posting in the game was quite town.

Gamma Emerald is a weaker townread I believe we both hold. (This read may need reevaluation given the townflip on DotW obv but for

now

GE is "town enough".)

MegAzumarill lacks the meta experience I have on other townreads, but is just so absurdly town from this game alone. Purely by play, Meg would be one of my strongest townreads, up there with A50 and Ari in strength. mollie initially didn't have a read there, but now also thinks the slot is townish.

Dwlee looked town to me from their claim but this is a read I am currently reevaluating. mollie currently thinks Dwlee's play doesn't line up with their claim and while I'm not sure one way or another, the townread there was

largely

role-based and is something I find is not unreasonable to now put into question. mollie wants Dwlee dead before mylo for sure, and I'm inclined to agree.


For Lean Towns, I'm pretty sure Yuki's town here (tho mollie was the gray--mollie's read on Yuki is more ambivalent, divided between gut/head on scum/town). since then, mollie has said that they're not townreading Yuki, but they at least think that Yuki isn't scum with Taro so if Taro flips scum, it'd look good for Yuki. (Note: the people reading my list actually got the me/mollie colors backwards. I consistently listed MY read first and mollie's read second. So for the green Yu, that's me, and the gray ki, that's mollie.)

When it comes to Skybird, Skybird is someone who I initially thought was scum (Skybird's entrance gave off STRONG scum vibes to me), but mollie is very very very sure that Skybird is town here. Since then, I've become a lot more receptive to Skybird being town from Skybird's later posting. I'm not

convinced

Skybird is town, but I'm willing to trust mollie's read on Skybird.

superbowl9 initially looked town to me, but mollie hard-scumread sb9 here. With the slot being replaced as of the end of the day, it's up in the air as to what this slot's alignment is, we won't be able to really know until the slot is filled and the slot is posting on D2.

It's at this point I feel it's important to mention:

mollie and I believe that this game, being AI-generated, will not necessarily conform to conventional balance standards.

I, personally, believe there should be less than 9 anti-town members to find, in order for the game to still be a game, and that if the AI generated a setup with 10 or more anti-town, Gypyx would reroll things.

So we're expecting there to be anywhere from 4-7 anti-town, mayyyyybe 8, but shouldn't be 9 or more.

Spoiler: Setup stuff

With 17 players we'd normally be looking for ~4 scum. Obviously, that's not the most applicable for the AI generated setup as we could have multiball or a lot more scum than normal but I'd

assume

that the game, being reviewed for balance, means that the town has reasonable odds of winning, so something like 9 antitown is unrealistically high meaning that a more realistic amount of antitown is in the 4-7 range.

(this part was later)
Multiball is explicitly possible--even if there's a sizeable scumteam, the scumteam is probably not assuming it's singleball. Given Gypyx explicitly said the AI could generate a multiball setup, even if there were 5 members in a scumteam they could still be genuinely scumhunting assuming there's another (smaller, like 2-4 member) scumteam in the game.

Meaning I'd explicitly expect the rules of multiball scumhunting to apply, in that you can't rely on "this slot is scumhunting" as a metric for them being town because scum will do that, too; we should be looking more into other scum indicators and other town indicators (things town do that scum are less likely to do, things that scum do even in multiball games).

Meaning that when I say that names are 'null', what I really mean is,
"This is where the scum pool begins", in that when we get to the bottom ~7 names on the readslist, it's not too unrealistic to think that literally all of them could be scum.

Taro there's just not much of anything there to be seen. I did however actually slightly misplace Taro. mollie did

initially

have Taro as null like I do, but later said Taro was acting scummy, so Taro should've been slightly lower (albeit not to the same strong-scum levels as our other reads).

NDMath there's also very little to be seen--NDMath has been posting, and more constructively so at that, but nothing truly sticks out as really alignment-indicative. Initially mollie had NDMath as a null. However, mollie thinks the slot is townish currently.

unwnd is a slot we had heavy ambivalence on at the time, although we've since come to the conclusion unwnd looks sus-as-fuck and unwnd is one of our main scumreads. I initially thought that unwnd's entrance looked hella-suspicious and didn't give off townvibes, but then later doubted this with ambivalence where I could see it either way. However, mollie, too, ALSO thinks the same: that if unwnd were town here, that unwnd would look town here and unwnd here just...doesn't look town. At all.

Radical Rat is basically an inverse Skybird: I have liked, rather strongly, basically everything Radical Rat has posted, including RR's claim looking town to me. mollie...hasn't, with mollie having thought RR's content was quite strong scum overall. At the time we posted our combined readslist, mollie had moved RR up to null, but that was the highest point RR has been to mollie and for both before, and after, that, RR has been a scumread of mollie's. I trust mollie's ability to read RR more than I trust my own, but I DO disagree with the scumread there, in spite of my willingness to trust mollie on it.

Then we get to the scumreads.
I could explain the DotW scumread (it was mostly mine tho mollie did share it), but given the townflip there, best to focus on the others.

When it comes to KittyTacky/Kop, KittyTacky was heavily null-at-best (with a minor lean towards scum). Kop's posting, per MegAzumarill's reasoning, is incredibly suspect. I realize Kop claimed a confirmable role--but both me and mollie remain skeptical of this, especially given the need for a replacement in the first place for KittyTacky.

And when it comes to SaveTheDragons, both mollie and I are sure that the immediate wallpost of effort from STD is a scumclaim from him, and that literally everything STD's done since coming into the game has been incredibly scum-motivated.


Other (potentially) important things:

Spoiler: mastina RVS posting

*glares at whoever killed mastina*

The person who killed us is whoever submitted 'Lord of the Tomb' as our role as our role is what killed us.

Also while I realize there's not much point in me doing my normal town town? scum? scum list due to the mechanics, for my own sanity I'm doing it anyway.

First

VOTE: Pesto

Town.

Also I'm a universal miller

Why can’t we be friends, and unite against the real enemy, the jocks?
VOTE: Superbowl9

​Town?

VOTE: MegA
Thanks for sabotaging 3d20 with that fake bus driver roll claim just to replace out lol

Scum.

VOTE: Dragon of the West
(Yes I know we don't have a vote but this is where I'd vote if alive.)

Spoiler: more mastina rvs posting

No read on NDMath yet but as of p3 I'm upgrading my townreads on both Dwlee and Gamma and putting Radical Rat as a lean town.

Skybird is scum? to me. (As in, not as confscum as Dragon of the West is because Dragon of the West is painfully obviously scum here, but still looks more scum than town to me right now.)

I also lean town on superbowl9; I have no read on Titus and am ambivalent on Momrangal (my first instinct was town but then I second-guessed it to scum so not sure).

I buy Meg's claim enough to have Meg as town enough.

So on page three, my reads:

Almost50
Yuki
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald

Superbowl9
MegAzumarill
Radical Rat

Taroumaru (not posted)
Pesto (not posted)
KittyTacky (not posted)
NDmath (no read)
Titus (no read)
Momrangal (ambivalent)

Aristophanes (not posted but below the others because of the ol' Aristophanes tell)

Skybird

Dragon Of The West

Loosely: town, lean town, null, null-with-a-lean-scum, weak scumread, hard-lockscum.

(The Aristophanes tell being Ari posting = Ari town, Ari not posting = Ari scum. Obviously, this is both an oversimplification and outdated, as basically a straw-tell: not really real as a true tell which isn't truly applicable, because it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than that. Once Aristophanes DID start posting, though, Ari immediately became obvtown.)

Spoiler: mastina Setup stuff + more early initial takes of mine

With 17 players we'd normally be looking for ~4 scum. Obviously, that's not the most applicable for the AI generated setup as we could have multiball or a lot more scum than normal but I'd

assume

that the game, being reviewed for balance, means that the town has reasonable odds of winning, so something like 9 antitown is unrealistically high meaning that a more realistic amount of antitown is in the 4-7 range.

Given that, I'd say to look for 4-7 scum, which I legitimately honestly think my readslist is already in the right zone for.

All of my townreads I'm pretty damn confident in;
All of my townleans I also feel pretty damn good about.

So that'd leave 4-7 scum in:
{Taroumaru, Pesto, KittyTacky, NDMath, Titus, Momrangal, Aristophanes, Skybird, Dragon of the West}.

9 names for 4-7 scum is a pretty damn good start imo.

Spoiler: page 5 mastina reads

Okay with Aristophanes having posted on page 5, I lean town on Ari (well actually I kinda want to locktown Ari), which brings me to:

Almost50
Yuki
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes

Superbowl9
MegAzumarill
Radical Rat

Taroumaru (not posted)
Pesto (not posted)
KittyTacky (no read from the singular post)
NDmath (no read)
Titus (no read)
Momrangal (ambivalent)

Skybird

Dragon Of The West

4-7 scum in:
{Taroumaru, Pesto, KittyTacky, NDMath, Titus, Momrangal, Skybird, Dragon of the West}.

Spoiler: mastina initial unwnd read + readslist progression

unwnd (Pestro's slot)'s entrance is not giving me the townvibes here at all--very alarming, as I'd expect unwnd to look town here if town. I realize unwnd tried to excuse this with "don't expect the normal from me", but that in of itself was also somewhat suspect in my opinion. Beyond that, unwnd's content since replacing in is immediate sus vibes so unwnd can join the Skybird level of scumread. (I'm not SURE unwnd is scum in the way I am instantly sure Dragon of the West is scum, but I do THINK unwnd is scum here.)

Almost50
Yuki
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes

Superbowl9
MegAzumarill
Radical Rat

Taroumaru (not posted)
KittyTacky (no read from the singular post)
NDmath (no read)
Titus (no read)
Momrangal (ambivalent)

Skybird
Pesto/unwnd

Dragon Of The West

Locktown townread various forms of null scumread HARD-lockscum.

4-7 scum in:
{Taroumaru, Pesto, KittyTacky, NDMath, Titus, Momrangal, Skybird, Dragon of the West}.

Spoiler: mastina most-of-D1 reads, Titus townread, to ~199

Titus voting unwnd immediately gives me overall +townvibes here--she could be scum bussing, she could be scum with unwnd not, but I think unwnd is scum and I think Titus realizing unwnd was suspicious is +town for her overall.

Which brings me to, as of the thread being at post 197 (me fully caught up to what's been posted):

Almost50
Yuki
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes

Superbowl9
MegAzumarill
Radical Rat

Titus

Taroumaru (not posted)
KittyTacky (no read from the singular post)
NDmath (no read)
Momrangal (ambivalent)

Skybird
Pesto/unwnd

Dragon Of The West

Locktown townread townlean various forms of null scumread HARD-lockscum.

4-7 scum in:
{Taroumaru, Pesto, KittyTacky, NDMath, Momrangal, Skybird, Dragon of the West}.

Spoiler: mastina extra post on the above

(For the record I actually feel really REALLY damn confident in all of the townreads until Titus and on my Dragon of the West scumread. It's to the point where if I could get reads on the various shades of null, dead serious, I would be fine with making our singular post for the day early rather than waiting until near deadline. But obviously, if [mollie needed] time for [mollie's] own reads and/or disagree with mine, we'll need to hash them out more anyway.)

Spoiler: mollie's first readslist, at about the same spot in the game as above, ~200

Town

Almost50
Skybird

maybe Ari or Gamma here

Titus - will treat as town

Null/Ambiguous

Yuki - reads as town, gut says scum
unwnd - like Yuki but maybe reversed

Dwelee is meh but should be easy to resolve.

NDMath, Meg, Kittytacky, Dragon are all just kind of there.

Momrangel always pings, in every game, but especially here.

Rad rat and Superbowl give off scum vibes.

We began to hash things out and work on our post from there.

Spoiler: mollie's followthrough/beginning to compromise

We can definitely meet in the middle here with reads, and I have noticed in the games we played in, we tend to catch scum in that way. Let's keep Sky in the town pile for now, maybe? Can we watch Unwnd?

Kitkat might not be a terrible lim.

Spoiler: mollie pointing out the lack of SvS in unwnd-DotW

If this is a bus, it is the worst bussing I have ever seen.

From Dragon of the West:

There's so many people in this game I haven't played with before. Can't wait to read everyone terribly.

VOTE: unwnd
I just don't like the wording of their posts so far. Feels fluffy and fake

I agreed with this, but with Dragon of the West having flipped town, that opens unwnd back up for being scum.

Spoiler: mollie on Taro + setup spec from mollie

Oh and Taromaru looks scummy.

It feels like a multiball game.

To that, I said:

Spoiler: more setup spec

is explicitly possible--even if there's a sizeable scumteam, the scumteam is probably not assuming it's singleball. Given Gypyx explicitly said the AI could generate a multiball setup, even if there were 5 members in a scumteam they could still be genuinely scumhunting assuming there's another (smaller, like 2-4 member) scumteam in the game.

Meaning I'd explicitly expect the rules of multiball scumhunting to apply, in that you can't rely on "this slot is scumhunting" as a metric for them being town because scum will do that, too; we should be looking more into other scum indicators and other town indicators (things town do that scum are less likely to do, things that scum do even in multiball games).

In the process of developing our reads,

Spoiler: mastina on unwnd + KittyTacky + penultimate-from-D1post readslist

For the record, have shifted my read (which is reflected above) on unwnd and KittyTacky/Kop in that unwnd has gone from a scumlean to ambivalent-null and KittyTacky/Kop has gone from null to a scumlean.

Town

Almost50
Yuki
Dwlee99
Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes

Lesser Town

Superbowl9
MegAzumarill
Radical Rat

Treating Town

Titus

Null/Ambiguous

Taroumaru
NDmath
Momrangal (ambivalent)
Pesto/unwnd (ambivalent)

Lesser Scum

Skybird
KittyTacky/Kop

Greater Scum

Dragon Of The West

(I also tried to form mollie's reads into a list and create an initial compromise-readslist, which the following was in response to)

Spoiler: mollie giving further reads input

Move Titus up.

Dweelee and Meg up

Dragon and kop down to scumreads

solid on skybird, almost50 slipped but still town. I just have an overactive imagination.

And then Save the Dragons replaced in, which mollie immediately called out:

Spoiler: mollie on STD

I think Save the Dragons/Momrangel is scum here, with that deliberate IOA.

Spoiler: next mollie compromise

I am cool with moving Rad rat to null <3

Other than Skybird, we have similar reads.

It was at this point we (well, I, having gotten mollie's input) submitted our D1 post.

Spoiler: I, mastina, had WORDS to say to folks about this.

A bit frustrating that they're engaging the "can talk", and not the "what was said".

I even included LINKS to why we're scumreading KittyTacky/Kop and Save the Dragons and they're not being engaged on, and nobody's commenting on how Aristophanes is a townread of ours and I posted our single post on him after a wagon on him came up.

The slots who know me should know that I know Aristophanes here and that he's town. A50, Titus, maybe-GE, Aristophanes himself, all of them should be able to tell that I know how to read Aristophanes and am telling them not to vote there...

I am not going to vote Ari. It's true I don't have a read on him, but Sky is right.. offering to claim is + for him. Also the 2 mastinas TR him, so I am not going to go against that on D1.

What are the available alternatives? The mastinas have Kop/STD/DotW as their lim pool for today? I have just unvoted STD and it doesn't make sense for me to revote the same guy who talked me out of it the first time (not saying I am convinced he's Town, but let's see what he has to offer). So, Kop of DotW for me (DotW has pocketed me already, so likely Kop, but I am still open for suggestions if supported by good arguments)

THANK YOU FOR BEING THE ONE PERSON TO BLOODY LISTEN A50. <3

I do wish you'd listen a little bit MORE though. Like, actually quoting the post so you would see the bloody links.

Aristophanes should NOT be the D1 elimination goddammit.

Spoiler: mollie giving more input, on Aristophanes + unwnd + Kop

Aristophanes shouldn't be the D1 elimination.

Also I am scumreading unwnd. Last game I played with him, he was full of piss, vinegar and arrogance, and wasn't afraid to throw his weight around or get into slapfights. From what I learned in that game, that is a town trait for him.

Do you see that here? Because I do not.

If Kop was sitting on a proveable role, then why would kittykat replace out in the way that they did? I call shenanigans on that.

I am in full agreement with everything mollie said here.

Spoiler: mollie on Skybird + unwnd

Skybird:

It seems like Dwlee and RR are scum reading everyone I am town reading. The last few posts from A50 are kind of yucky but I still feel he is town. I get that RR thinks A50 tried to trick him into something, but I don't agree. RR wants an elim badly. He says he's willing to be the D1 lim which is nai in my opinion. The thing that seems more scummy is deciding he is not going to be the lim because his role is better than he thought. Thinking you have a good role isn't nai. It's just the way it all came down that feels hinky to me.

Skybird is pure here, I think, as town as A50. And I agree with this sentiment.

Unwnd is trying to move the wagon back onto Ari.

Yeah, unwnd is scum here.

I also fully agree with mollie here--I think Skybird's later posting like the quote was insanely town and that unwnd's posting was incredibly scum.

Spoiler: mollie on RR

Oh and I think Radrat is scummy now.

Way too much dithering for them.

This however I can't find myself agreeing with. I'm willing to

trust

mollie on RR, but I can't

agree

with it.

Spoiler: mollie's doubt on Dwlee

this really bugs me from Dwelee:

Also I am a universal Miller so I have no idea what will show up to role cops

Obvsly his role would show up as universal miller, but here he is concerned that it might show up as something else. I am renewing my suspicion of Radrat/Dwelee connection.

And while I neither agree nor disagree with mollie on this point (Dwlee's fallen off in read strength to me), it is definitely worth investigating further.

Spoiler: mollie's readslist during the night

SKybird - town
Almost50 - town, but I don't like that they are devoid of scumreads.
Ari - town
Titus - treat as town
Gamma - townish
Meg - town
Ndmath -townish

Dwelee - not liking this slot, needs to be limmed before deadline, really should be vigged.
Yuki - I am not really townreading them. I do think that Taro and Yuki are not scum together, though. So if Taro flips scum that would clear Yuki in my mind.
Taro - meh
Radrat - I actually originally had them as town and now I am scumreading them. His pushback on Almost50 looked genuine, but eh, I dunno. Something isn't right here.
unwmd - scummeh
kop - scummeh
std - lean scum, I think Dotw might have been correct in his std buddying assessment.
superbowl - seemed scummy

So with all of this said,

Updated Readslist

:

LOCKTOWN

:

Almost50
Aristophanes
MegAzumarill (mastina-townread + claim + mollie townread)

STRONG TOWN

:

Titus (both heads townreading)
Skybird (mollie VERY strongly townreading; mastina townreading)

WEAK TOWN

:

Gamma Emerald (both heads loosely town)
Yuki (mastina

town

+ mollie

ambi

valence

)
NDMath (basically pure null from mastina, but

townish

to mollie)

Below this = "can eliminate"

(especially if there's a lot of nontown players in the game)

:

CONFLICTED

:

Radical Rat (mastina

townread

, mollie

strong-scumread

)

NULL/PENDING REEVALUATION

:

Dwlee99 (looked

town enough

D1, claim seemed believable, but doubts to be had + mollie

scumread

)
superbowl9 (looked

town

to mastina but

strongly scum

to mollie, but due to the replacement, is a blank slate)

NULLSCUM

:

Taro (mastina pure null, but mollie thinks is

scummy

)

SCUM

:

Kop
Momrangal/Save the Dragons
unwnd

(final note: mollie said they don't

strongly

scumread anyone outside of unwnd, Kop, and STD)

mollie tl;dr

:

tl;dr

- y'all, it is a long read, but worth it because Mastina is mapping out exactly what we are thinking. We are here, anxiously watching everything, hoping to join you all at some point. Also sorry, Dragon of the West! We thought you looked scummy until you didn't and then it was too late. <3

Hi folks, this is mastina here. Like a dummy dum dum, I forgot to coordinate with mollie an N2 message to send to y'all, so this is purely from me and won't contain as in-depth a summary as our N1 message did, because I don't have the time to get mollie to sign off on this meaning I can't send anything mollie doesn't want to be sent.

I'll start by saying one of the reasons I was so negligent is that we'll be joining you in the living at the start of D3. (We could rejoin the living at any time, but once we do, we can die to a scum nightkill. We valued being an immortal IC over being able to talk live given we could message y'all still + I was fairly swamped IRL so me not being required to post every 48 hours actually was good for me, but we both have agreed that interacting in real time is needed. We wanted to in the latter half of D2, which is one of the reasons our D2 message was so delayed, but ultimately we decided we should rejoin the living at the

beginning

of a day phase as to get the most time to interact with y'all.)

Speaking of D2 tho: my originally-planned message was 98 characters, but it contained something from mollie that mollie asked me to remove, and I obliged. It was something that at the time was mostly mollie, but I now believe to be true even MORE than mollie does, but I still need mollie's permission to out it, which as of me sending this, I do not have. (Sorry, again, me = dumdum.)

I'll give the translation of what WAS there though: Subject: AI UPCIK PART II | Night 2

2m

ReadsL=N2
Game >rand
DON'T lim Ari
PLEASE lim PTMB
MT=powerwolf OR

gem

We believe the game is more likely than not to be multiball. NDMath's flip seems to confirm that to us.

The lines about not eliminating Aristophanes/the worst and eliminating Pookythemagicalbear are self-explanatory.

But the line about Morning Tweet apparently caused confusion.

pirate mollie's read on MT is a complicated one. Again, I'd elaborate more if I had not been a dummy dum dum and not gotten approval first so I can't talk about mollie's read there in full without first getting mollie's consent so lacking it, can't go into details, buuuuuut, basically:

pirate mollie thought that MT looked insanely town initially, but later thought that MT was very probably scum especially in certain situatons. pirate mollie summed it up as basically what I intended to say in that post:
"Either MT is a power-wolf or is the gem of the town".
As in, regardless of Morning Tweet's alignment, Morning Tweet is making really :goodposting:, is actually trying, is a breath of fresh air for the game. If Morning Tweet were town, that would make MT the MVP of the town by virtue of being so full of energy and investment.

...However, mollie believes there's a very very high chance that in spite of how MT's efforting hard, that Morning Tweet is just scum here in spite of the good effort. This is supported by our theory of the game being multiball, because if the game is multiball as we suspect, then Morning Tweet's effort has an obvious explanation: MT can still be super-town by scumhunting for another scum function.

More than that from mollie will have to wait until D3, but I'll share some of my own thoughts.
In contrast to mollie, I do admit; I had an instant read on Morning Tweet's posts: That MT was a power-wolf, in that MT's posts looked good, looked town, but that MT was still scum in spite of how good her posts looked.

That having been said

, there's something REALLY important to address:

The disingenuous-as-fuck take from Pooky.

Because guess what?

I've got basically zero reads in the game.
I think that the Aristophanes slot is still more likely town than not.
I think that Almost50 is still more likely town than not.
I think that Skybird is still more likely town than not.
I, loosely, still believe RR has a high chance of being town albeit not to the same extent as the above three.
I,

very

loosely, still vaguely think Titus to be town, albeit not to the same extent as the above four.
Per the above, I have an overwhelmingly strong gut read that Morning Tweet is a powerwolf, efforting-scum. (Sorry MT, I don't know

what

gave me that strong of a gut read on you but it's literally one of my strongest gutreads I've ever gotten.)

And I have since come to believe that mollie's theory was spot-on (tho I can't out it). But the theory I believe now which was mollie, I didn't believe at the time of our 1666.

At the time I posted that, guess what?

While I had the 5 moderate-to-weak townreads and the scumread on MT?

The rest, and this is why Pooky's posting was disigenuous-as-fuck, the rest of what was said, the entirety of 1666?

That wasn't from me.

That was from PIRATE MOLLIE.

So Pooky was being disingenuous-as-fuck by trying to say "mastina's reads are never right especially on me"--guess what? I didn't have a read on you at all at that point, Pooky. That read was 100% entirely pirate mollie's read and it wasn't until Pooky pushed it as "mastina is always wrong on me" that I got a scumread on you because again, disingenuous as fuck. I'm not playing solo, here. In fact, pirate mollie has done far more work than *I* have.

I've struggled to get reads of any notable strength in this game; basically most of the game is varying shades of null. Heck, during my most busy time I literally went a full week without reading the game! So OBVIOUSLY I am not the one driving our reads here, and IF it were MY read I'd even agree with Pooky! Not to trust me, because when I'm not operating at 100% capacity, my reads tend to not be as good. So I WOULDN'T trust my reads!

But the "please kill Pooky" wasn't from me.

It was

directly from pirate mollie

.

Most of our slot right now isn't me. I'm the mouthpiece for pirate mollie. I'm

submitting

the posts, sure! But while I'm writing the posts and submitting them, make no mistake: a good 80% of what is being said is not MY beliefs. Not MY input. It's ~80% PIRATE MOLLIE.

And don't you fucking DARE disrespect pirate mollie by pretending pirate mollie is me and that mollie's reads suck as much as mine do when pirate mollie is this active, this invested. mollie's literally been quoting posts as they happen with commentary as if playing live. They are VERY much in the game, playing it, more than I am, so you DON'T disrespect their reads like that

Hi there, this is mastina.

I am at work, but I believe that I might have the game solved, or damn near close to it.

I have half of it written up (the post that I wanted to post yesterday), but the remaining half, I need to type up once I get home.

In the mean time, I just wanted our N1/2 posts directly in our iso. (Sorry, I know that it's long.)

Will explain my solve once I get home, and also respond to everything on D3.