Newbie 2082 - Game Over

[catboi]

What makes you say a wagon on me wouldn't be viable?

Because as it is the only one who expressed any sort of interest in voting you is Greeting whereas most others think you're town, not really hard to read the room. No sense kicking and screaming about a read on day 1.

Have you given us those more-decent-then-usual townreads, yet?

Dunno if it wasn't clear, I feel reasonably okayish about implo (who was my second early gut townread) and MafMen, pseudoaristotle is probtown, I think Greeting is towny although that one is the shakiest.

Leaves not much room!

[catboi]

I'l be honest I threw out the D1 herosolve, even though I'm generally against those things in principle, because I wanted to see the response it'd get. Not sure if Val is just sick of me dissing his posts but I feel like he got a bit evasive in response, those two questions I just answered were pretty perfunctory.

Thyn's response gives me a little more doubt, anyway, even with his odd wording choice, but the defensiveness over voting Val in 325 feels rather notable. Not sure why he'd assume Val would "become more readable" on later days, and that doesn't really jibe with his earlier insistence that the Val/Greeting interaction was "potentially telling" in 216/321 - it doesn't make a great deal of sense for Thyn to be pointing the finger there and telling people to look at it, but then balk at the idea of acually trying to look into Val on day 1 - does he or does he not think Val is someone who should be looked into?

[Val89]

Because as it is the only one who expressed any sort of interest in voting you is Greeting whereas most others think you're town, not really hard to read the room.

Except that isn't true, is it? That's why I asked the question in the first place. MafMen

has

voted me today, and although he has unvoted he was pretty explicit that wasn't because he started townreading me. In fact, as far as I recall, the only slots that have said they are townreading me are Implosion and Frogsfrogs. That leaves 6 slots who either have explicitly shaded me, or said they are on the fence, or not mentioned me at all. You only need 5 for a lim.

It's pretty suspect, and it makes me wonder if you actually beleive what you are saying. I think you know the people who haven't come out with a read on me yet may indeed end up townreading me, because you know I am town, and acting as such.

I'l be honest I threw out the D1 herosolve, even though I'm generally against those things in principle

I generally try to discourage preflip associations on day 1 in newbie games

Why do you ordinarary discourage this?

[catboi]

Because as it is the only one who expressed any sort of interest in voting you is Greeting whereas most others think you're town, not really hard to read the room.

Except that isn't true, is it? That's why I asked the question in the first place. MafMen

has

voted me today, and although he has unvoted he was pretty explicit that wasn't because he started townreading me. In fact, as far as I recall, the only slots that have said they are townreading me are Implosion and Frogsfrogs. That leaves 6 slots who either have explicitly shaded me, or said they are on the fence, or not mentioned me at all. You only need 5 for a lim.

It's pretty suspect, and it makes me wonder if you actually beleive what you are saying. I think you know the people who haven't come out with a read on me yet may indeed end up townreading me, because you know I am town, and acting as such.

That...makes no sense. If as scum I believe someone is too townread to be a vialable elim, I concede the townread and move on (also, how would I possibly know that someone who isn't me is going to be townreading you in the future?). My motives here are...what, exactly?

I'l be honest I threw out the D1 herosolve, even though I'm generally against those things in principle

I generally try to discourage preflip associations on day 1 in newbie games

Why do you ordinarary discourage this?

Because in general pre-flip associatives are bad, too easy to get caught up in theorizing a team based on entirely incidental interactions, you're much less likely to be right on an exact team than on a single scumread. In general in newbie games it's best to discourage that sort of thinking, but I can't help my brain from working in those terms especially when the game is small-ish and I'm starting to POE things down, I find a suspect and work out who they could plausibly be teamed with. Has worked out okay for me in the past. But it's still mosy important to focus on whether someone, on an individual level, is playing like scum.

[catboi]

While we are on the subject of Thynhith, I have a bit of additional context for that slot.

People have correctly deduced there was a bit of background tension between Thyn and the previous occupant of my slot. I was also in that game they played together, and won as scum.

Post 50 is interesting, because the justification that was given, that another slot had given a TMI read on the basis of exactly 3 posts, was precisely the same fake-justification, albeit more verbosely, I gave for scumreading his Mason partner. You may want to have a look at the exchange I had (link) on the issue, and in fact, Thyn's approach to that game more widely, because I am getting a very different vibe to his play this time around. That also applies to the "be careful not to hammer yet unless you mean to" concern at 82, another post Greeting describes as "very towny", which again, was an interaction scum!me had with Thyns slot in that game.

Thyn couldn't predict, of course, that I would end up replacing into this game, and it seems faily plausable to me that, having just lost a game to scum, he may well attempt to replicate that scum game he had seen work so well when he rolled scum himself. My read on greeting is stronger presently, but these are all reason I'm not townreading Thyn on the basis of those posts. In fact, given the vibe is markedly different to that last town!Thyn game, I am scumleaning that slot.

And I'm against voting out Val, at least D1, because his align will be much more obvious in later days.
In fact it seems you're avoiding voting Val, despite declaring him to be disingenuous, thin and repetitive.

Thyn, what has made you decide that catboi is avoiding voting me for different reasons that you have elected to do so yourself?

I mean, look at the read Val outed on Thyn earlier in the game, and then look at this incredibly weak engagement with Thyn on his return to the game, at a time when Thyn is getting pressured by several players. Does it look like Val is trying to actually solve Thyn here?

[Val89]

That...makes no sense. If as scum I believe someone is too townread to be a vialable elim, I concede the townread and move on (also, how would I possibly know that someone who isn't me is going to be townreading you in the future?). My motives here are...what, exactly?

Wrong. Conceeding the townread reduces your pool of available mislims. Better to keep the shade flowing early so you have options for later days once you've got a couple of NKs. This is scum motivation 101.

Wasn't the main thrust of implosions argument against Thyn, the one you said you found compelling, was because he was keeping his options open in that regard? You can't have it both ways.

[catboi]

Okay, but I just told you my townreads, so do you really think I'm "keeping my options open" there? I've ruled myself out of multiple votes That's not at all akin to what Thynhith was doing and it's not really hard to tell them apart.

Every response you give is just convincing me further that I'm right and the game's already wrapped up, all over but the shouting.

[Val89]

I feel reasonably okayish about implo (who was my second early gut townread) and MafMen, pseudoaristotle is probtown, I think Greeting is towny although that one is the shakiest.

The strongest read there is "reasonably okayish". One probtown, another shaky.

You don't mention MafMen as a townread either; and whenever you have spoken about them, you've taken great pains to explain you don't know why you feel anything about them, giving you scope to swing on that one, too.

Yeah, "keeping your options open" is EXACTLY what I would say you are doing.

[Thynhith]

Atp we have just under 2 days left, and I'm only comfortable limming Val or Maf. Val doesn't look like he's actively trying to lim someone, and is likely waiting as long as he can before hammering me, or best of all for someone else to do it. For me his behavior this game is just too similar to what he pulled in our last game - gets locked into arguments with people, refuses to stop yammering about a single post. Tries his best to discredit someone. I'm a little disheartened no one took a look at the previous game. Frogs says he's convinced Val can't be town, which seems incredible. If Val flips red he's definitely a potential partner.
VOTE: Val
I'd be alright getting behind a Maf wagon as well, but Val is first choice

[frogsfrogs]

I don't think using the remaining daytime to continue to interrogate motivations is a bad thing. Val did specifically say he wanted catboi to answer his question, shrug. I think catboi, greeting??, mafmen are who I'd want to look at in following days if we lim Thyn now. No clue where pseudoAristotle will stand/is standing now, but they've been town-y, so not of worry to me.

[Val89]

Well, like I said in my previous, I have been holding off hammering because I wanted to get a handle on catboi, and try and firm up my read on pseudo before day end.

But no, you are perfectly correct, Thyn. I do have a read on catboi now, and it doesn't look like like pseudo will be around much, so...

intent to hammer

[Thynhith]

Well, like I said in my previous, I have been holding off hammering because I wanted to get a handle on catboi, and try and firm up my read on pseudo before day end.

But no, you are perfectly correct, Thyn. I do have a read on catboi now, and it doesn't look like like pseudo will be around much, so...

intent to hammer

When, I wonder?
I claim VT in the meantime

[Val89]

VOTE: Thynhith

[Thynhith]

Well, like I said in my previous, I have been holding off hammering because I wanted to get a handle on catboi, and try and firm up my read on pseudo before day end.

But no, you are perfectly correct, Thyn. I do have a read on catboi now, and it doesn't look like like pseudo will be around much, so...

intent to hammer

Well, I should be surprised if you or frogs don't flip red. Happy scumhunting, town

[Greeting]

Is that a hammer? I'm sorry, I was at V/La for the last few days for health reasons. But it looks like I'm late to the party anyway.

[Greeting]

Atp we have just under 2 days left, and I'm only comfortable limming Val or Maf. Val doesn't look like he's actively trying to lim someone, and is likely waiting as long as he can before hammering me, or best of all for someone else to do it.

For me his behavior this game is just too similar to what he pulled in our last game - gets locked into arguments with people, refuses to stop yammering about a single post.

Tries his best to discredit someone. I'm a little disheartened no one took a look at the previous game. Frogs says he's convinced Val can't be town, which seems incredible. If Val flips red he's definitely a potential partner.
VOTE: Val
I'd be alright getting behind a Maf wagon as well, but Val is first choice

So he's done this before?

[catboi]

I'm fine with this ┐( ˘_˘)┌

If town, would advise looking into frogs for their vote here

If scum, remember what I said about Val (don't think a townflip is great for Val but a scumflip is really bad)

[Greeting]

Before the thread is locked for end of day:

Setup 1

Mafia Roleblocker, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker.

Now, if we have this setup, the way I see it, the Jailkeeper has a choice:
1. save igorsprite but his role becames basically obsolete
2. leave igorsprite to die and utilise their role the best to their own abilities.

If I were the Jailkeeper, I’d probably opt for the second option. The choice is up to you, of course, but I suggest that you visit players whom you find suspicious (other than igorsprite) and hope that you hit the Roleblocker or the Goon. The Tracker is lost and that’s it.

Setup 2

Mafia Rolecop, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor.

If we have this setup, then our situation is objectively worst. Friendly Neighbor is a relatively weak PR, nonetheless can still be useful for narrowing the suspect pool later on in the game.

I also considered the option of suggesting that the Friendly Neighbor outs themselves now and we vote out someone from outside the pool of igorsprite and the FN

, but I think that with a bit of luck, the role could be used to town’s benefit on Day Two. So don't claim and do your thing.

Setup 3

Mafia Rolecop, Town Tracker, Town Doctor.

Not all hope is lost if we’re lucky to have this setup. Doctor, please save igorsprite. Igorsprite, please investigate a player of your choice and report the result to us the following Day, regardless of whomever will that be. The Rolecop is a weaker role than the Roleblocker and so I think we don’t have to worry too much about it early in the game.

In any case, the other town PR claiming at this stage of the other game would be nothing but ranging from bad to absolutely disastrous for town so please don’t try it.

[Micc]

Votecount 1.08

Thynhith (5) -

implosion, frogsfrogs, catboi, igorsprite, Val89

Val89 (2) -

Greeting, Thynhith

Not Voting (2) -

pseudoAristotle, MafMen

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

An elimination has been achieved.

[Micc]

Thynhith has been eliminated Day 1. He was a

Vanilla Townie

.

It is now Night 1. The deadline for Night 1 is in (expired on 2021-11-06 10:05:00).

Prodding pseudoAristotle.

[Micc]

Replacing pseudoAristotle.

[Micc]

StrangeMatter replaces pseudoAristotle.

[Micc]

There were no deaths Night 1.

It is now Day 2.

Votecount 2.00

Not Voting (8) -

Val89, frogsfrogs, StrangeMatter, igorsprite, Greeting, MafMen, implosion, catboi

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-11-13 11:05:00).

[igorsprite]

Hi

[StrangeMatter]

Hey hey.

So I looked through the game and, Greeting you really shouldn't hammer yourself just to eliminate Val89. If you ask me, it's putting the absolute worst risk imaginable Day 1 with post #204. Ok so if theoretically both of you flip town and everyone follows that, you would've given scum two different attempts at catching PR, and puts us in MELO.

It might not be something scum does (though I have almost no evidence of scum actually doing that I wouldn't think people wouldn't and couldn't) but it's absolutely anti-town to do that if you ask me.