Newbie 2082 - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 2.04

catboi (2) -

igorsprite, MafMen

igorsprite (1) -

Greeting

Not Voting (5) -

Val89, frogsfrogs, StrangeMatter, implosion, catboi

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-11-13 11:05:00).

[catboi]

@implosion idk, i said that to instigate catboi because i think that he is scum and his reaction now just confirms that for me.

So, mind telling me why you thought I was scum in the first place?

[StrangeMatter]

@catboi, what's your opinion of Greeting's slot right now?

[StrangeMatter]

And while I'm here before I go to sleep, I might ask the same to @Implosion

[catboi]

@catboi, what's your opinion of Greeting's slot right now?

Mmm, there's some concern that he's just hard buddying me and the townread on me came too easily but I still lean on him being more likely genuine here.

I have some thoughts on the team but want an answer from igorsprite first.

[implosion]

I still see no real reason to scumread greeting; I don't like the igor vote but intrinsic distrust of lying is something that's very common in newbie games (partially because bald-faced lies like igor did are more common in newbie games, perhaps). I vehemently disagree that igor's play makes any play from scum here but I think Greeting scumreading igor for his play is consistent with the general approach to the game I've seen from Greeting. Not the biggest townread I have by any means at this point (that's still igor and then Val).

---

My general thoughts on everything that's happened recently: first of all, igor being blocked (by any means) means we are in exactly setup 2a (assuming igor is town). catboi has a lot of justified outrage. This, however, is a situation where justified outrage/annoyance from knowing that igor was lying is actually not a towntell; if catboi is scum, then catboi would know igor is lying, because (given that igor actually didn't get a result) either they tried to kill igor and they failed because he was jailkept (in which case, they'd probably know he had no result because he was jailkept) or they tried to kill someone else and block him (in which case they know he'd have no result because they blocked him). So if catboi is scum, catboi knew igor was lying. This is all to say that catboi doesn't get any towncred for genuine indignation in response to igor because he'd know he can safely claim that he didn't target anyone and act annoyed at igor, etc. I think in situations where, as scum, you have an opportunity to show something like genuine outrage, it's generally a good idea to do so. Unfortunately again catboi would probably react similarly in that regard as town so it's kind of moot.

This is also to say that yeah, igor's "gambit" is entirely pointless... because catboi-scum would have all the info they'd need to respond to it this way.

With all this said: I think catboi is the best lim for today, for a variety of reasons. They're in my PoE and they've already claimed VT now, for one, even if it was for bad reasons. They said yesterday that they'd be able to prove that they're town eventually but ostensibly each aspect of their play so far (joining me on thynhith, the way they've pushed frogs, the way they've reacted to igor, the way they were talking about val yesterday) has a lot of utility as scum and just like, idk. It just feels like they're doing things they'd do as scum, more or less. They said this about frogs. Everything they've done has a perfectly reasonable justification for them to have done as town but taken as a whole there's just nothing that I wouldn't expect them to have done as scum. They said that they should be "self-evidently" town when they thought they were in a CC with igor and I just don't see why they think they would be self-evidently town there as town when they recently said they haven't really proven it yet.

VOTE: catboi

[catboi]

I should be selfevidently town because I wouldn't have reacted to the tracker guilty that way at all (because I'd either know it's fake or because it'd confirm me), and because the other PR is really, really obvious and I'd have just nightkilled them.

[catboi]

With all this said: I think catboi is the best lim for today, for a variety of reasons. They're in my PoE and they've already claimed VT now, for one, even if it was for bad reasons. They said yesterday that they'd be able to prove that they're town eventually but ostensibly each aspect of their play so far (joining me on thynhith, the way they've pushed frogs, the way they've reacted to igor, the way they were talking about val yesterday) has a lot of utility as scum and just like, idk. It just feels like they're doing things they'd do as scum, more or less. They said this about frogs. Everything they've done has a perfectly reasonable justification for them to have done as town but taken as a whole there's just nothing that I wouldn't expect them to have done as scum. They said that they should be "self-evidently" town when they thought they were in a CC with igor and I just don't see why they think they would be self-evidently town there as town when they recently said they haven't really proven it yet.

Seriously, this is ass. Do better.

[implosion]

Why isn't this exactly how you'd react as scum to a tracker guilty that you know is fake?

How does "I'd have just nightkilled the other PR" imply you're town when no one died last night?

[catboi]

We're 20 pages into the game and on day 2 and the best you have on me is "IDK, hasn't done anything town". Maybe because you haven't put any effort into trying to sort me even once. Are you even trying to scumhunt?

[implosion]

That's a drastic misrepresentation of what I said and you know it.

[catboi]

Why isn't this exactly how you'd react as scum to a tracker guilty that you know is fake?

How does "I'd have just nightkilled the other PR" imply you're town when no one died last night?

...Because I'D KNOW HE WAS BLUFFING?

And because I'd have nightkilled the other PR, rather than having a kill blocked???

[catboi]

That's a drastic misrepresentation of what I said and you know it.

That's an exact representation of the lazy-ass reasoning behind your vote. It doesn't purport any actual reasoning to why what I'm doing is scum motivated just bullshit shrug POE reasons while taking advantage of the momentum against me because of igorsprite's horseshit claim. You're not really investigating my posts, you're not questioning me at all, you're not trying to solve me

[catboi]

So I ask you: are you scum, or are you just playing like shit?

[implosion]

Why isn't this exactly how you'd react as scum to a tracker guilty that you know is fake?

How does "I'd have just nightkilled the other PR" imply you're town when no one died last night?

...Because I'D KNOW HE WAS BLUFFING?

And because I'd have nightkilled the other PR, rather than having a kill blocked???

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at here. What would have been different about your reaction given that you'd know he was bluffing (which I've made clear I understand)?

If the other PR is a jailkeeper (if we're in 2a) why can't it be the case that you tried to do this but the kill was blocked by the jailkeeper blocking whichever scum committed the kill?

[implosion]

you're not questioning me at all,

I mean, apart from the fact that I am literally doing that right now...

[implosion]

That's an exact representation of the lazy-ass reasoning behind your vote. It doesn't purport any actual reasoning to why what I'm doing is scum motivated just bullshit shrug POE reasons while taking advantage of the momentum against me because of igorsprite's horseshit claim. You're not really investigating my posts, you're not questioning me at all, you're not trying to solve me

But to answer the whole of this post: you giving a broad "your reasoning is shit" doesn't dissuade me, astonishingly.

I think you've had plenty of time to show that you're town. Lots of people have had that time, and lots of them, in my view (val, and mafmen, and igor, and to a lesser extent Greeting and to a lesser extent but still more than you IMO frogs and psueodaristotle) have done this. When the entire rest of the player list has done this and I've looked at your posts and found a whole lot of things that, sure, could make sense as town, but also completely make sense as scum, well, i mean.

[frogsfrogs]

Why isn't this exactly how you'd react as scum to a tracker guilty that you know is fake?

How does "I'd have just nightkilled the other PR" imply you're town when no one died last night?

...Because I'D KNOW HE WAS BLUFFING?

And because I'd have nightkilled the other PR, rather than having a kill blocked???

We aren't in your head, we need another layer of explanation. What are you saying would have been different / better about your reaction if you were hypothetically scum and Igor claims to have seen you visit?

Edit after seeing new posts pop up: Sorry yes, exactly what Implosion said. We just don't know what your full argument is. Also, I think trying to reverse card onto implosion for "not having scum hunted at all' is a rough sell for making yourself look townie D: Maybe you don't consider this pushes to be correct but they haven't

not

existed??

[catboi]

Why isn't this exactly how you'd react as scum to a tracker guilty that you know is fake?

How does "I'd have just nightkilled the other PR" imply you're town when no one died last night?

...Because I'D KNOW HE WAS BLUFFING?

And because I'd have nightkilled the other PR, rather than having a kill blocked???

I genuinely don't know what you're getting at here. What would have been different about your reaction given that you'd know he was bluffing (which I've made clear I understand)?

If the other PR is a jailkeeper (if we're in 2a) why can't it be the case that you tried to do this but the kill was blocked by the jailkeeper blocking whichever scum committed the kill?

Because I don't put myself into a fight with the tracker and flip out (which, always, always makes people conf-bias the shit out of the reaction) when it's clear their result isn't real? I'd just go "I ddidn't go anywhere, retract", etc. Being informed means there's no pressure from a test result and I think it's very clear I actually felt pressured there.

If the jailkeeper blocked the kill they'd have a soft guilty. Which also

clearly

hasn't happened. (actually, I probably roleblock the PR read and shoot igorsprite in that world, thinking of it, but regardless, the other PR is extremely obvious and it's clear mafia failed to take advantage of this)

[catboi]

you're not questioning me at all,

I mean, apart from the fact that I am literally doing that right now...

That's an exact representation of the lazy-ass reasoning behind your vote. It doesn't purport any actual reasoning to why what I'm doing is scum motivated just bullshit shrug POE reasons while taking advantage of the momentum against me because of igorsprite's horseshit claim. You're not really investigating my posts, you're not questioning me at all, you're not trying to solve me

But to answer the whole of this post: you giving a broad "your reasoning is shit" doesn't dissuade me, astonishingly.

I think you've had plenty of time to show that you're town. Lots of people have had that time, and lots of them, in my view (val, and mafmen, and igor, and to a lesser extent Greeting and to a lesser extent but still more than you IMO frogs and psueodaristotle) have done this. When the entire rest of the player list has done this and I've looked at your posts and found a whole lot of things that, sure, could make sense as town, but also completely make sense as scum, well, i mean.

VOTE: implosion

Cool, you're just scum bullshitting then. Die.

[catboi]

"derp i'm questioning you" while asking loaded questions that you clearly don't have any real care about what I answer, because you're not trying to sort me, because you just want to elim me for lazy tossed-off reasoning.

[catboi]

FWIW, I looked at igorsprite's games offsite, and I think there's a fair chance still he's fakeclaiming here - as scum, he leaned heavily into the noob "idk what i'm doing, help me out guys" act he's doing here, and also faked a dumbtell to win a game as mafia. I get a similar sense of that here. The only thing I hesitate at is that him egging on the votes and claiming early day 1 feels relatively townish. But as town he seems to be a bit more bluntly assertive with his opinions rather than aimlessly following the crowd.

I know people are huge cowards when it comes to voting out an Un-CC'ed PR claim, but it's worth keeping in mind down the line, because I don't really trust him at all with the way he's been playing. I was hoping to wait for him to respond before I talked about this, but implo's shitpush on me has me feeling like I need to get this out in the open ASAP.

[implosion]

Die.

lotta bravado while you're sitting vanity voting at e-2.

[catboi]

For reference, this is the igorsprite scum game in question, with a link to the post where he fakes a dumbtell about not knowing how many mafia are in the game: https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/top ... 0750?n=186

The setup was NewD3, which is of course the same as this one. That's notable to me because he made this post in this game:

we have 2 scums, right?

Which could have been an attempt to replicate the cred he got for that game.

Other games I referenced:

scum:
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1387366?n=1
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1414162?n=1 (subbed out after day 1)

town:
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1358016?n=1
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1366830?n=1


I wouldn't say it's a definite thing because in general he seems low-content regardless of alignment, but he's also keenly aware of how he's perceived and I can't help but think the "im a noob idk what to do please help me uwu" act may be manufactured to garner sympathy.

[catboi]

Die.

lotta bravado while you're sitting vanity voting at e-2.

I don't care, I'm flipping town, and you should absolutely be the next elimination when I do.