Open 833: Twin Trap [Postgame]

[Noraa]

You actually think this play comes from scum me and that Ydra is town here???????????

[Noraa]

Also can you not make ur decision when I cant be online because I have a concert tonight and lots of procrastinated homework. The scum team is literally Ydra/Fenny and I don't understand why the fuck there is a sudden change of heart here where that actually matters and loses us the game. Ask for a deadline extension I dont fucking know but dont hammer me you lose town the game by doing that when all Ydra has done is say the game is lost very early to get this thought into your head that you were wrong all along. And Fenny being open to all possibilities even when they are clearly impossible if he's town. Like I don't understand why you think Norwee, who you TRed the whole game and myself, who you were certain was town are scum over a duo like that. Obvious scum is still scum is what Pooky bear bear would say if he were here.

[Vulture]

Jazz hands, prod dodging.

[Vulture]

Easier with retrospect to go back over things, reviewing Norwee now.

Looking over it now:

- The jump that Norwee makes opening the day thinking I'm town and siding with me more to then going back and picking at my thoughts and posts is gross. Like, there's not a real... progression? I guess the progression is supposed to be 'I think Noraa sounds very towny' but clearly he saw something he liked in my starting posts, and posts before, and then suddenly he has a new perspective which is like "I hate this, and I hate that, and you had a plan this is gross." But I don't know why he didn't have these thoughts before, I guess? Like if you dislike someone with that much vitriol you should notice before and not after.

- I think their interaction is pretty bare looking over it. Noraa isn't really trying to get Norwee's thoughts on anything that matters, because she's asking him "what would you be doing here if you were scum?" Which... sure, you can meta that question and go back and review his games, but 1) I don't think Noraa would do that, frankly and 2) she's not actually asking him about his thoughts on the game we are playing -now-, or his actions, or why he did this or that. It's a pretty fluffy exchange that doesn't actually implicate any of Norwee's actions but it makes it look like they're trying to do something.

- And then he tries to rush the day to end, I guess assuming that TA hammers me over Noraa given past posts? Idk. This is a dumb point but hey ~whatever I've got~.

Spoiler:

I'm not gonna vote, but i do lean more on the side of Vulture being town here than Noraa.

I could probably get a TR from norwee more easily by SRing him.

Why?

I'm not gonna vote, but i do lean more on the side of Vulture being town here than Noraa.

I feel the same strategically but disagree with the conclusion.

I'd like to hear STD chime in.

You’re gonna have to explain what that means champ.

I already said i'm not voting yet.

Norwee, lets say your holding a red role pm, what would you be doing right now?

Umm.
Idk, that depends on some other factors. Such as who i would be scum with.
But if we're talking standard procedure then i just try to find some good miselim option and push there.

Behavior and vibe wise what do you do

How would i know that? And why do you need to know?

ok lets say its elo and theres a townie who's been waffley on you slot. You could get their vote or you could make them a mislim. What do you do and why?

Again, i think the context matters.
But i guess i'm a bit more pockety as scum so try to get them on my side maybe.

I mean i'm not a frigging genius when it comes to playing as scum, most of the time i'd be happy with myself if i could do just the basics without being seen straight through.
Anyway what was the point in that? Did it help you read me somehow?

Fuck, i’m doubting myself so much now.

STD why did you vote.

Noraa what do you think i should do here.

Idk, i feel like Noraa sounds really townie in these last pages.

STD voting and unvoting is also really strange and i kinda feel like town wouldn't do that? Cus i don't see the point.

So if TA wants to bank on STD/Vulture i might be fine with that i think.

I feel like i wanna vote Vulture because there isn't much point in waiting anymore. If i do and there is no hammer then that should at least confirm that scum cannot be TA and from my POV it has to be Vulture/STD. (and possibly Noraa/me from TA's POV.)

VOTE: Vulture

TA?

If TA was scum with Noraa i’m going to cry.

Why wouldn't I just bus. Zzz.

Whoever's the town btwn Norwee and Tamora, nice throw.

Don't like this Lamist.

Like clearly everyone here wanted/was amicable to kill StD. Why do I go against the grain and force something infinitely harder for myself. Please, tell me.

p-edit: ...I mean, Norwee thought I was townie and aligned with my thoughts, yes? I can go back and quote the posts where he did that. Pocketing is kind of the thing I 'do' as scum. Why wouldn't I try to convince Norwee instead of doing this, exactly?

I mean the answer is pretty obvious? Sure it would be better for you to argue for killing STD, but that assumes he isn't on your team. Which is literally what Noraa has been saying.

Also, regarding the accidental hammer:

1) You pushed Dorsey on some pretty bad reasons.
2) You hammered; I'm asserting that you knew about it and tried to play it off.

Not really a bad reason, honestly, to call someone scum.

Not a bad reason, no.
Which explains why they were the likely designated mislim for today.

Vulture voted Noraa pretty early into the day, which i don't like for several reasons:

- It shows that they already had an plan in motion.
- There was very little assessing done before placing their vote, which i don't feel like is a town mindset to have for ElO.

Not to rush you, but this game does have a deadline.

[Vulture]

STD and Vulture make the most sense.

Noraa feels tonally town.
EE is probably town but if he's not we've imploded too far to catch him.

Can you explain why you think it's STD/Vulture?

If ur town, it is STD/Vulture. I'm assuming Tamara is town here because I've believed and had a straight up and very strong obvtown VT read on them since the beginning of time. I think I wavered on it for a hot sec yesterday but I'm still pretty sure that if there is only one read I have that is and has been right, it's this one.

Since all the prs are dead I might as well just say what my thoughts on the game were regarding the setup. VT more likely to be more out there and not give too shits about seeming obvtown. Prs more likely to feel more reserved and scummy. Scum in this game I would think wouldn't play like VT which is why my TR on Tamara is very strong. Playing like VT is just a pure game that is hard to replicate as scum who know what's going on and is rarely the case. Now that I think I know who Tamara is, I'm not as sure but I still am willing to bet on it. If we lose the game because of this, I'll feel shit but my heart is telling me this is right and my brain seems to agree.

Like basically I think scum could be playing a pr game. Like sounds like a pr but I dont think scum ever sounds like VT unless it's like their personality which I don't believe it is Tamara's personality especially in a plist like this one.

Also in retrospect this post is even worse; I was thinking it was STD/Noraa with Noraa distancing from Dragons, but now I'm reading it as something that's solely for pocketing TA.

I've griped about it before but I still think it's fucking insane that the very reasons that are being used to 'clear' TA here based on her play or what have you are the ones that Noraa associated with redtea to the point of casing them earlier in the game. Like, Noraa admits to having these setup thoughts, admits to thinking that PRs would act a certain way... and then pushes someone, who was in fact the PR, with a case that accuses them of being floaty and scummy. Like, what? And then it's used /here/ to call TA town instead without recognizing the dissonance of before.

[Tamora's Angel]

Vulture, how do you feel emotionally?

[Vulture]

Vulture, how do you feel emotionally?

Best word's probably 'meh'. I'll be annoyed if it's a loss but it's one of those where I've tried my best to lay out my thoughts and I'll have caught scum, loss won't be on me which makes me feel better about it.

[Noraa]

I dont believe vulture hasn't read up. but I mean vulture you're about to win the game either way.

[Vulture]

I have read up?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Going to vote Noraa in a few hours.

Why?

[NorwegianboyEE]

You haven’t said anything.

What are you basing your vote on?

[NorwegianboyEE]

If you hammer with that and lose us the game then i don’t know what to say.

[NorwegianboyEE]

And then he tries to rush the day to end

No. I was trying to rush for TA to actually open his mouth and say literally anything.

[Tamora's Angel]

I was reaction fishing. I didn't get the reaction I was hoping for. That would have made this easier.

[Tamora's Angel]

VOTE: Noraa

Came down to why was I alive in elo

[Tamora's Angel]

Sorry in advance if wrong

[catboi]

Vote Count 3.05

Noraa (3):	Vulture, Save The Dragons, Tamora's Angel
Vulture (2):	NorwegianboyEE, Noraa

With 5 alive, it took 3 to eliminate.

[catboi]

Noraa

was eliminated Day 3.

She was a...

Spoiler:

Watch-Immune Mafia Goon

[catboi]

It is now Night 3.

The deadline for Night 3 is November 10 at 3 AM EST, in (expired on 2021-11-10 04:00:00)

Fast night is available by request, if all living players PM me with a request I will end the night early.

[catboi]

Flip and daystart are going to have to wait until the morning as I want to actually get some sleep tonight, apologies for the wait

[catboi]

Tamora's Angel

,

Vanilla Townie

, was killed Night 3.

Day 4 begins now.

Vote Count 4.00

Not Voting (3):	NorwegianboyEE, Save The Dragons, Vulture

With 3 alive, it's 2 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 4 is November 17 at 10:30 AM EST. Deadline timer:

(expired on 2021-11-17 11:30:00)

[Vulture]

VOTE: NorwegianBoyEE

[Vulture]

I feel like I should say something but I don’t have a lot to say.

Dragons didn’t hammer me so Dragons town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

What makes the most sense here is that Vulture bussed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

They voted early yesterday, way before anyone else. They probably had that planned and just stuck with it.