Newbie 2082 - Game Over

[MafMen]

sorry for not posting i completely forgot about this game lol
ill work on a pbpa of everyone so i keep a foothold in this game

[MafMen]

I'd still like greeting to explain their catboi read as well as talk more about igor. He's been favorable towards them all game and only explained, once, that they think they're acting within meta from a previous town game they were in together. Is it really that strong of a read on just that basis??

When it comes to catboi, I must admit I wasn’t very interested in them from the very start of the game. My assumption was that, knowing them from N2081, I will figure out if something is wrong eventually. I cannot say that he’s a full townread in my eyes, but he’s in the lower half of my to eliminate list for sure.

My reasoning may come off as simplistic here and it kinda is. But to be fair, I never felt the need to go in deeper.

1. Getting emotional in mafia games happens all the time. I used to look down on this, but to be fair, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s just human nature. It is a sign of frustration and a pretty natural response to being wrongly accused. In my experience as a mafia player I’ve virtually never seen a scum do that. And you would need to be very convincing to fake it well. Catboi did visibly get frustrated and annoyed at the game, as evidenced in 306, 429 (I did the exact same thing, and also not willingly) and the posts that followed from then towards what was so far the peak of his wagon. Note borderline abusive posts like 488 lol. I’ve wanted to write posts like that, but held back - looks like catboi has slightly less self-control.

1a. Spat with implosion - similar to what I had with Val. This just doesn’t really feel like a mafia thing to do. Scum getting in spats with townies - almost always discussed in games, almost never happens in reality.

2. Their analyses are unusually deep for a scum. Reading mine was admittedly quite interesting. They actually took the effort to audit all my posts in this forum. That’s a quite desperate thing to do to get a read on someone, and scums don’t really have the reason to do that. I’ve intentionally made myself quite an easy target to eliminate and yet instead of saying „screw that, he’s annoying”, let’s go for it, catboi goes out of their way to test me to the best of their possibilities.

3. Thinking out loud - another towntell. Scums want to seem consistent to avoid getting called out on it. Some townies avoid it as well in order to not draw too much attention to themselves. In my experience, I have only had very experienced scums doing that thing. Catboi has been longer on this site than I’ve played mafia overall, so I imagine that they’d have the ability to pull this off, but in combination with 1, 1a and 2, it doesn’t ring any alarm bells in my mind.

There are, however, some things which concern me. I felt like there happened a spike in his activity when his wagon built up. Getting too defensive while being VT (they hardclaimed it) without any explanation seems odd. I find the ability to take risks with one’s own life as the peak of VT potential and I would expect an experienced player to know and understand that.

Nonetheless, we have a lying „newbie” and a polarising despot in the game which definitely managed to pick my attention and this is the direction that I’m facing.

lots of fluff only to say catboi is emotional and makes deep posts lol

[MafMen]

yknow what i cba to catchup so if i have anything to say about certain posts itll be in the pbpa wall

[Micc]

Votecount 2.08

catboi (2) -

Val89, frogsfrogs

igorsprite (1) -

Greeting

Greeting (1) -

igorsprite

frogsfrogs (1) -

catboi

Not Voting (3) -

StrangeMatter, MafMen, implosion

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-11-13 11:05:00).

[MafMen]

someone end my suffering
i have no idea how you serious players do this

[MafMen]

Spoiler: big wall

pseudoAristotle/StrangeMatter:

17 22
plus townie points, seems genuine enough and looks like a townie who didnt know wtf they were doing and thought that was genuinely what they should do. scum acting is always an option but typically in newbie games its safe to read these kinds of posts as townie

32 54
the goofy behavior here plus their actual reasoning behind it (only scum should know who scum was at that point) is pretty green, shows a lot of the thought process that went into it

55
probably one of, if not the towniest vote on my past wagon, they didnt sheep thynhith and had their own unique reasoning behind it which i think towntells them pretty heavily not to mention the carefulness in 94 is also townie

onto strange. a side note on their overall behavior is that the crux of their content seems to be them trying to steer town onto the right track and they seem genuinely frustrated at some points. youll see it later in this post, but im flip flopping on how i should read it as it could just be scum taking advantage of easy content however on the other hand it's a lot more rewarding for mafia to let town implode rather than using the easy content farm as we only have 3 eliminations, not to mention them consistently behaving this way being townie as well

374
speaking like greeting has to be town with val in this situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth as if strange knows theyre both town here and uses advising them as easy content not to mention they took a very neutral stance on the potential alignment of both of them in 385 which i find strange, however i dont think this is enough to snuff my prior townread on them, just something to keep an eye on in the future maybe

400
i really like the tone here, thats all, just seems genuine and i like the progression

419
actively trying to prevent not so useful discussion, a good look

626 feels kind of rough with the weird shade, sussing implosion is perfectly normal but the problem i have with their post is when they end it with "its gut and completely unfounded," it makes the entire section of that post feel redundant and unnecessary thus coming across faked to me

672 its the subtle things in this post that matter, the statement "if i think they are town" implies stranges reads are very much malleable and up to change, it seems they subconsciously said this too which makes this come across as all the more genuine

707 big mindmeld, which gives me the inclinations to just gutread this post as town
----------------------------------------------

Val89:

132 143 150 156
looking through this argument again with a more critical eye makes me like this a lot less
val comes out swinging from replacing an inactive slot (as if he had to compensate for his old slots inactivity), and takes a very holier-than-thou approach towards combatting me and greeting in his argument as if he was the antithesis of town play. a personal tell of mine that i use is that unfounded arrogance is more than likely a wolf, as it inflates the players argument and portrays the illusion that they're more confident in their argument than they are in reality, in general this just doesnt look good

as a side note i find it incredibly strange they just sort of stop focusing on their greeting sus and just shift onto other players

i attempted at many occasions (161, 261, 281, 288, 301) to reach across the aisle and convey my opinions in a potentially better way but it took a while for them to actually meet me in the middle and discuss this normally which makes me believe their goal was not solving but chaos

157
disagreements not allowed

i mentioned this at the beginning of the day but 221 looked like val was just setting himself up for failure, thynhith flips town and then he can absolve himself of all sin and guilt by acting like it was an accident and then immediately pushing me. later on down the line he still scumreads me but puts me on the backburner

220 232
when other people start weighing in on val's motive to do what he did as town or scum, i believe his reactions to them are townie
his habit to attack those who disagree with him on his greeting read portrays himself to be an arrogant townie rather than scum, conflicting with what i said earlier
nevertheless i like the tone and attitude

236
even though this posts goal was to call out greetings analysis on inactivity for being wrong it feels a bit in-your-face, "you think that guy is scum? yeah? well what about

these

guys?"

298 314
while these posts sort of annoy me for how condescending they are LOL i think it looks townie, for someone i said to have looked like he was pursuing this argument with the goal of chaos in mind, the frustration looks especially genuine

319
this is when val starts to have a genuine mindset towards solving, while i dont have a read to gleam out this post in specific i think its worth noting that prior to this he was generally combative and his reads on all players seemed centered on the greeting/me/him fiasco

546
(off topic) unlike you ive learned from the advice of my betters not to treat my reads like they are absolute fact, at the time i was thinking that if catboi could actually be town these votes are doing more harm than good, and i didnt want to give scum!catboi too much freedom so i clarified i still scumread him

557 564
mafia when they see a town member imploding generally want to stir the fire rather than solve them, this is what val is doing by making these concise posts to incite catboi, he isnt putting an effort in to actually solve catboi and he looks pretty opportunistic here
----------------------------------------------

frogsfrogs:

frog is a bit of a tough nut to crack, many of their posts are hard to gleam something alignment indicative out of so at times i almost force something ai out of them. some people would argue that it makes them scummy but im just gonna take it at face value and call it like it is, nai. their day 1 as a whole is pretty awful but i think they picked it up a lot today. im not the type of player to omgus but their scumread on me just seems forced, they keep shoehorning in the fact that they scumread me and yet they exert no effort into pushing me which is pretty whack

62
the general opinion at the time was that me calling greeting/pseudo/igor town was wolfy however frogs took a more unique approach towards the subject, agreeing that the pseudo/igor interaction could be interpreted as AI but agreed that what i said on greeting is questionable and premature
the takeaway i have here is that frogs wasnt afraid to stick their neck out and go against the town with what they believed. its a pretty brave stance in my opinion for newb scum to have, of course theres a world where scum!frogs sees me as a bad SE and easy pocket attempt but their stance on me has progressed into a more negative read so i doubt that's it

106 is a bunch of fluff to make it

seem

like they're explaining their igor vote but nothing there really justifies their stance on him and it makes this post come across weird, the follow up in 154 is okay i guess but it doesnt clear away any of the sketchy shit that could be drawn from the earlier post which still leaves a bad taste in my mouth

I don't know how to comment on this argument,

nor should I

, but I think I'm reading both Val and Greeting as very town from it.

bolded makes me think guttown, admittedly a lot of the nonsense that me/val/greeting went through was something that shouldnt be enlarged more than it already had been, and directly avoiding commenting on it but still giving the reads they got from it is townie

359
another player that looks like they were almost expecting a mislim even though they were on of the main supporters of thyns wagon, as if they were setting themselves up to easily hunt in the ones who were on his wagon, could be my own misinterpretation though

403 and 405 look very genuine, them criticizing greeting for borderline pr hunting seems to be coming from a townies perspective and i like the attitude

421
ill see whether or not they do so later on in their iso but id really love a more in-depth readslist from them here as i feel itd do wonders to help sort them, as a side note there is nothing wrong with the aforementioned post as they gave implosion the 'general overview' that they asked for.

looking at the progression between 424 and 444, it seems theyre genuinely confused and frustrated over how igors claim has completely spiraled the towns discussion, avoiding getting their hands dirty and making premature reads (looking at you catboi) before the whole igor nonsense finished is a townie mindset

458
id argue that in a newbie game this could be seen as a derpclear, scum!frogs knows that an alive igor is likely roleblocked no matter what, unless the hypothetical jailkeeper roleblocks mafia and i think this towntells them to some degree

492
scum here would try and rile up catboi further and have him dig a deeper hole, frogs does the opposite of that and genuinely sits down with him to try and rationalize what hes saying

578
weird e-1 shenanigans, blegh

630
response to catboi looks decent, nothing incredible but still decent
find it a bit weird to actively defend yourself (to this extent) to the one you sus but w/e
----------------------------------------------

Greeting:

65
meh reaction
gives the attitude of "hey guys look im suspecting this just like you are, im townie right? haha"

96
the beginning of their 2 day long push on igor is absolutely horrid, they lock igor as scum and as you can see on their section for me they even sort players based on that read
all around their push on igor is bizarre and i think he put it best himself
"I think it’s scumplay and its goal is to be brushed off as incompetence."

119
looks very bad considering he still tunnels igor

120 123 127
in hindsight this looks like iioa (information instead of analysis), which is when mafia will make random posts about mechanics in order to look like theyre doing something because they struggle with faking reads, and the fact that val pushed this for its apparent antitownieness rather than this still doesnt sit right with me

204
i said it earlier but this just looks like a bluff to keep pressure from building on himself and it seemingly worked, considering people started townreading greeting mainly after this to my recollection.
in no way would we ever test him and he knew this

234
i might be getting myself wrapped up in confbias but the way this appears to me is greeting trying to dial down the theatre with val and look for a reason to agree with him

399 416 430 434
greeting, like val, seemingly forgot he ever pushed and scumread val and officially got started on his nonsensical igorsprite push
i dont know if ive said it before but its as if igor was meant to die at night and was saved, so scum!greeting uses the opportunity that arose from igor digging himself a hole to try and get a lucky igor elimination
i dont buy the whole townie stubborn tunneling bs either, and i think thats just a ruse
remember, "I think it’s scumplay and its goal is to be brushed off as incompetence."

597
still shoving this belief that he absolutely would have hammered there down our throats like its a confirmed fact

616
after looking through his iso i realize greeting sort of shifted bases here. at first he, not catboi, was the one who brought up the fact that there are setups where a tracker fakeclaim could be "confirmed," yet here he completely forgot that line of thought and went with some nonsense about pr listening to what he said and not ccing

701

lots of fluff only to say catboi is emotional and makes deep posts lol

----------------------------------------------

catboi:

no
literally no
----------------------------------------------

implosion:

tl;dr on early day 1 implosion is he takes a sort of third party stance on a lot of this
69 75 130
i think this portrays a real solving intent and it definitely looks green to me, this read sort of tanks a

little

when their reads 131 are a little mediocre but the point still stands

181
implosion has consistently made his thought process clear and i like that about his posts

post 182 sort of narrows down potential targets for scum!implosion and it would make it really hard for him to create another scumread in the future when he nonchalantly clears multiple players like this and since he hasn't reneged on these very much it makes me think this is townie

335 336 344
eod seemed very fixated on thyn but never committed to the wagon which looks really fuckin weird as if he saw the wagon was going bad

the progression in 438, 439, and 465 looks very artificial.

argument with catboi

this seems like tvt from both sides, while it was rough at times they both seemed like they were genuinely trying to work out how the other thought.
----------------------------------------------

igorsprite:

im gonna be lazy and not make igor analysis by saying i trust the uncc'ed tracker claim, sue me

i used to quote the posts when i made these on other sites and halfway in i realized i could just use

Code: Select all

[post][/post]

to not clutter as much looool

(StrangeMatter, igorsprite)
(frogsfrogs)
(implosion)
(Val89)
(Greeting)

not currently sorted:
(catboi)

hot take, greeting v val was svs
VOTE: Greeting

whats that? i did a pbpa on every player except catboi? he has 170 posts and i stayed up until 6 am to do this, give me a break
ill do him later, i am mentally drained
good morning and good night

[catboi]

I also want to say right now: I think

frogsfrogs

has been

super

selective in the things they are choosing to post and respond to in-thread, generally relegating themselves to a very narrow band of arguments about igorsprite's claim and avoiding all the other stuff, and I think it's highly mafia-indicative, hat they just don't know how to make a rebuttal to what I'm putting out and so are just willfully ignoring it

Yeah, I've admitted before already to sometimes reading through the thread, having my own reactions and taking stuff in, but then blanking on what to actually say. :/ Definitely a lot of what I've posted today has been related to the Igor case, but it's been about pursuing a thread on greeting that's been totally confusing me and I still think looks not town. I've realized so far that they're... firm in stating the belief and not active enough right now to hash it out. Fine. I keep reading through your big greeting analysis to try and digest it and I think it makes me waiver my read on you more than it does him.

Okay.
You realize that you only coming in to say this now, after implosion unvotes me and removes the momentum on me, makes it look like you're playing to an agenda? Like you're trying to just shift people's focus to a different wagon now that you can't get me flipped.

[catboi]

hot take, greeting v val was svs

I don't think that ever, ever happens in a 9p game

[catboi]

@MafMen:

I went deep on Greeting in 647 650 and 652, I'll give a look to what you have to say but I don't think he's scum here at all, please give it a look (I wrote stuff about you in 715 if you crave validation or want to know how I'm reading you right now)

Would much, much prefer if your vote was on Val over Greeting

[Val89]

Like, Val's singlemindedness toward catboi right now is really offputting.
(snip).
I don't understand how someone can be so unwaveringly confident that catboi is scum in the face of the past several pages. I can understand scumreading them in spite of that but I can't understand an unwavering scumread on them.

Admittedly, knowing the balance to strike here has been a little difficult for me, because a lot of what makes me so sure catboi should be the flip today was predicated around discussion of PRs, something I have been very clear I've wanted to advoid. Given that the cat is out of the bag now, I think now is the time to be a little more clear about this. I am not 100% sure catboi is scum, although I am very sure; lets call it 90%, but regardless, I think the gamestate to be such that catboi absolutely should be the flip today.

Firstly, I absolutely 100% beleive Igor's claim. I do NOT beleive that a scum team with Igor in it has Igor make the kill; neither do I beleive the scum team deliberately elected to no-kill - yes, both of those scenarios are

technically

possible, but they make so little sense for any theorectical scumteam, and I've considered them all in my head, that the chances of either are neglibable. I think it's pretty obvious the scumteam targetted Igor for the kill last night, relying on the JK heeding Greetings advice not to protect Igor. That makes Igor town, and it also spews us as being in A2, because otherwise Igor would not have been a threat worth taking the risk in attempting to eliminate N1 in the case the JK took the opposite view to Greeting, as you can see they did.

Catboi's initial defense to the fake guilty was to essentially to say two things - the first was "I wouldn't have reacted this way if I was scum, because I would have known the guilty was fake". I think that is self-evidently rubbish, because how would a scum player act when presented with a guilty they knew had been faked? I think you can do nothing other than act the way catboi did; to act like you don't give a shit would give away the fact you knew it was fake, and thus are scum, if you aren't going to fake claim a PR at that point, so - acting indiginant and suggest the tracker must be scum or otherwise town throwing is all you can do. Catboi himself admitted that town and scum would do the same in 606, so him seeking to rely on it as 'look, I was actually towntelling in my response to this' seemed off.

The second part of the defense was more interesting: "I know who the PR is, and I would have killed them rather than shoot Igor". That part of it did give me pause. I had to go back and evaluate if there was anything that could have reasonably given rise to the beleif they knew who the PR was, and I think it was obvious, even before Igor had said the same, and now catboi said so explicitly, based on how they were interacting with the remaining slots that catboi meant they had read StrangeMatter as the JK, and, reading back, that was mostly likley because they were reading 177 as a PR slip. I am in total agreement, that regardless of if catboi is saying so for towncred, or I am wrong about catboi here, that until this is sorted out, StrangeMatter should say nothing to confirm or deny that belief either way. One thing I

am

sure about, is that catboi genuinely does beleive he has a PR read on StrangeMatter, and thus, whether SM is the JK or not, that absolutely spews SM as town on a scum!Catboi flip, 100%. I don't beleive for a second this here has been faked, and if it has, they deserve the win.

I also strongly beleive frogs and implosion to be town. In any case, even if I am wrong, I also don't beleive that catbois attacks today on either Implosion nor frogsfrogs are SvS; and if anyone else has any suspicion that they are, nobody has said as much. That means on a red catboi flip, we have Igor (regardless), SM, Frogsfrogs and Implosion all spewed town, and only two slots remaining the partner could possibly be - Greeting and MafMen. A red flip today means we have time to flip both; in other words, a guarenteed town victory.

I have, in fact, considered the possibility that I am wrong and that catboi is town. The sudden uptick in the level of effort is notable. I have to ask myself whether that is town-indicative, or if something else could be driving it. I am hoping we enter the night with some doubt in the mind of the scum as to whom the second PR is, but if that second PR is either forced or choses to claim today, then we enter a situation where this game could very well turn on whether or not the scum!Roleblocker is alive or not, and I think scum already know this. Even if both PRs are known, they can't kill both in one night. They CAN shoot the JK and Roleblock Igor, but if they hit the wrong slot, or the RBer is flipped today and thus that option isn't open to them, then with smart PR play, we are guarenteed to go into tomorrow with some mechanically-confirmed information; and at least one cleared PR slot. A scum victory in that scenario is going to be a HUGE ask, and I think they know it. I think that not only is catboi scum, I think he is the roleblocker. (I had something more to say here on why I am sure the sort of behavior that has been exhibited towards me in some posts can't be coming from town, but on reflection I think I will leave it until post-game.)

Given that I believe that catboi honestly belevies he has a PR read on SM, I have asked myself if the fact SM is still alive IS indicative of a town!catboi. I conclude not. SM came into the game during the night phase. We have no idea of the timings as to when things were discussed in the scumthread, and when decisions were made as to the night actions. It is possible, perhaps likley, that the decisions were made at a time when, if catboi or others did read that slot as PR at the start of the nigh, then psuedo was expecting to be occupying the slot, and if they DID take 144 as a PR slip, then I think, with all due respect to psuedo, it was probably decided that there was a PR who wasn't really sure what to do, and would likely take Greetings advice for lack of confidence to depart from what an apparently experianced player was representing was the best action to take. In other words, I think there are too many things we don't know about the discussions the scum team had, and more importantly, who was occupying the PA/SM slot at the time they took place, to draw a conclusion on if catboi would or would not have advocated to shoot at that slot.

We're limming whoever we think is most likely to be scum.

At the end of the day, this. That to me is catboi, and by a large margin. A red catboi flip gives us 4 slots spewed town, and even in the unlikley event of a town!catboi, then that gives me something on the SM slot in particular that I think we need to know today going into tonights night phase rather than the Mis-lim and lose we might find ourselves in if we go another direction today and get it wrong.

[catboi]

VOTE: Val89

[Val89]

I meant 144, not 177, in paragraph four.

[frogsfrogs]

Okay.
You realize that you only coming in to say this now, after implosion unvotes me and removes the momentum on me, makes it look like you're playing to an agenda? Like you're trying to just shift people's focus to a different wagon now that you can't get me flipped.

I have not unvoted you, still scum read you, and have been actively questioning greeting before now. My focus has already been there and hasn't moved from you either. This was an attempt to try and be more forthcoming / generous with my thought process after you specifically pointed out that I've only felt confident in a few trains of thought recently. :/ It's true that I think the depth of your posting is a point for townieness, now that you're still in that mode multiple real days after you were initially voted.

[catboi]

Okay.
You realize that you only coming in to say this now, after implosion unvotes me and removes the momentum on me, makes it look like you're playing to an agenda? Like you're trying to just shift people's focus to a different wagon now that you can't get me flipped.

I have not unvoted you, still scum read you, and have been actively questioning greeting before now. My focus has already been there and hasn't moved from you either. This was an attempt to try and be more forthcoming / generous with my thought process after you specifically pointed out that I've only felt confident in a few trains of thought recently. :/ It's true that I think the depth of your posting is a point for townieness, now that you're still in that mode multiple real days after you were initially voted.

Again, make whatever excuse you want. If you think I am scum, why do you act like you have something to prove when I make a point about how you're engaging with the thread? Why do you only mention being unsure and start posturing toward Greeting when the momentum on me dies down? Why are you scared to engage with any of my actual substance to even state why you disagree?

This is a pattern with you, and it's really incredibly scummy

[catboi]

I think you're scared scum who's been flying under the radar but is struggling to come up with anything to actually say

[catboi]

If you'd like to prove me wrong, then go ahead, give me some free associative thoughts, as best as you can, as to why you don't agree with my analysis of Greeting. Don't have to even respond to specific points of mine, just go off the top of your head.

[catboi]

This is the same thing I questioned you on qith your reads earlier - you'll make statements or put out opinions but there seems to be very little in the way of meaningful reasoning backing it up, and often you'll just copy things others are saying for your pushes

[frogsfrogs]

Okay.
You realize that you only coming in to say this now, after implosion unvotes me and removes the momentum on me, makes it look like you're playing to an agenda? Like you're trying to just shift people's focus to a different wagon now that you can't get me flipped.

I have not unvoted you, still scum read you, and have been actively questioning greeting before now. My focus has already been there and hasn't moved from you either. This was an attempt to try and be more forthcoming / generous with my thought process after you specifically pointed out that I've only felt confident in a few trains of thought recently. :/ It's true that I think the depth of your posting is a point for townieness, now that you're still in that mode multiple real days after you were initially voted.

Again, make whatever excuse you want. If you think I am scum, why do you act like you have something to prove when I make a point about how you're engaging with the thread? Why do you only mention being unsure and start posturing toward Greeting when the momentum on me dies down? Why are you scared to engage with any of my actual substance to even state why you disagree?

This is a pattern with you, and it's really incredibly scummy

Again, what do you mean that I am posturing towards greeting now when much of my posting in the past day-- which you are the one to bring up at the top of this reply chain-- has been about questioning greeting (for his read on Igor)!!
I KNOW I am not great at scumhunting yet. I'm town and I am trying my best to engage. I do not think the way you're characterizing this post is true to reality and need to say so.

If you'd like to prove me wrong, then go ahead, give me some free associative thoughts, as best as you can, as to why you don't agree with my analysis of Greeting. Don't have to even respond to specific points of mine, just go off the top of your head.

Sure. Give me a moment.

[catboi]

Again, what do you mean that I am posturing towards greeting now when much of my posting in the past day-- which you are the one to bring up at the top of this reply chain-- has been about questioning greeting (for his read on Igor)!!
I KNOW I am not great at scumhunting yet. I'm town and I am trying my best to engage. I do not think the way you're characterizing this post is true to reality and need to say so.

I mean your entire movement feels like it's a momentum shift toward a scum agenda because with implo expressing doubt you need to move onto a new target so are faking doubt on me but won't address my actual substance on greeting because you need to get a mis-elim to win

It's the kind of thing that comes where you want to seem like you're taking people's thoughts into consideration, but you're not, you're playing toward a goal and you know you have to target certain people so ultimately you have to ignore what's actually being said and maybe shrug it off with a "sorry gosh i'm just not convinced :/"

That is what I mean by playing to an agenda, you avoid actually addressing anything that's inconvenient to you

[StrangeMatter]

Absolutely not let’s not put Catboi at E-1.

I think this post is the best case for Strange being maybe town. Scum would want to talk it out for a bit and then hammer, really, right?

I have almost no clue what you're even trying to say with the second part of this post. Though, I don't really have a really good read on Implosion or MafMen at this point.

[catboi]

Absolutely not let’s not put Catboi at E-1.

I think this post is the best case for Strange being maybe town. Scum would want to talk it out for a bit and then hammer, really, right?

I have almost no clue what you're even trying to say with the second part of this post. Though, I don't really have a really good read on Implosion or MafMen at this point.

You could read my analysis on MafMen in 715?

(Explaining implo would be a lot harder, it boils down to a veteran experience type of thing)

[StrangeMatter]

Absolutely not let’s not put Catboi at E-1.

I think this post is the best case for Strange being maybe town. Scum would want to talk it out for a bit and then hammer, really, right?

I have almost no clue what you're even trying to say with the second part of this post. Though, I don't really have a really good read on Implosion or MafMen at this point.

You could read my analysis on MafMen in 715?

(Explaining implo would be a lot harder, it boils down to a veteran experience type of thing)

I mean okay, but with your recent string of comments, you're trying way too hard to get buddy buddy with me I think.

[StrangeMatter]

Maybe I'm just paranoid but it really doesn't give me a good vibe.

[catboi]

The emotional appeal element of "I'm trying my best" in frogsfrogs's response to me is a very typical response of newb-scum when confronted, it's an evasive maneuver

There's a bit of a hint of how DaTacoX reacted to me questioning him in my last game although I wasn't nearly as aggressive in that game, the response was a similar "I know I've been underwhelming", newb-scum are self-conscious about not being able to to hit the same level of analysis that town does, but since they can't compensate for it they try to cover it up with apologetics and making people feel bad for them

[catboi]

I mean okay, but with your recent string of comments, you're trying way too hard to get buddy buddy with me I think.

Strange, I need to find the people I believe are town and convince them to vote the people I think are scum. That is part of the town win condition. It is the most basic element of how the game is played.


I'm not sure what you expect me to do otherwise here? If I believe you are town, and I need to convince you, do I just make generalized statements to the entire thread, like I'm giving a speech, and hope people actually read it and pay attention to it?


It's not just you I've been talking to, I've been talking to almost everyone on an individual level to try to discuss with them.

On a basic level,

yes

, I

AM

trying to get on your good side!

I am trying to convince you of my view of the game

. That is a basic fact of how this game is played.

Of course, the mafia are going to try to convince you, too. That is another fact of the game. It is your job to decide whether the person trying to convince you is doing so because they are a part of the mafia team.

But someone trying to convince you does not mean they are scum.