Newbie 2082 - Game Over

[catboi]

Because, make no mistake, I

hate

having to play like this and act in such a completely domineering fashion in a game, I don't think it leads to a healthy game, I would much prefer to let people operate at their own pace rather than making myself the protagonist of everything, and this is verifiable from the other newbie games I've played


But the way I've been forced up against things this day phase leaves me no other choice in my view


And my approach has been to try to continually methodically analyze everyone in the game and come to the best conclusions I possibly can, because I believe that is the best way to play to my win condition as town when I am being threatened with a wagon

[implosion]

I feel like this day is unstoppably doomed and whoever we lim is going to flip town no matter who it is right now, tbh.

[implosion]

I agree strongly with catboi that if Val is town he's making this game absolutely impossible to play. And that's like, triply true if Val is correct that catboi is scum.

[frogsfrogs]

Alright. I.. see that. And if, by surprise, someone I don't expect

(basically just Igor)

hammers here that's something to maybe examine. I want to flip catboi tomorrow for sure.

VOTE: Val89

[catboi]

So consider this me trying to have a moment of empathy after I've been lobbing haymakers for something like 3 days straight


This game has been a significant source of frustration for me with regard to having to deal with being cased for very bad reasons and while I think it's likely some of that was driven by scum I know not all of it is


And some of that is just the nature of the game, people are going to make mistakes

But I want to do whatever I can to get things right, it has just been incredibly hard for me to deal with, I'm doing what I can. But rather than just ripping people for misreading me I want to know what they think I should be doing.

[frogsfrogs]

No, wait, duh. Add implosion to the strike text too ob's. He's town and might still think Val here

[catboi]

UNVOTE:

I want Val to answer the question I asked

[catboi]

frogs, I'm going to ask you the same question I asked Val. Assume that I am town and am tunneling you incorrectly. What should I have been doing differently?

[Val89]

Well, just lim me then Implosion, and you can get on with it without me. I really don't see what all this handwringing achieves, frankly.

I figured you were already on to catboi with respect to moving in on an easy mislim as far as frogs goes because of your 397. If you are sure about Greeting being town, then they are going to have a wake-up call to reasses everything on seeing my flip, and it will probably take my flip in order to do that.

[catboi]

Before you go, vote me.

This post does give a bit of the fear


But, like, hypothetically, in a world where you are town here


You have made it essentially impossible for me to find you as town with your tunneling and repeated bad faith arguments



So let's try a thought exercise here: assume that I am town and am tunneling you incorrectly. What should I have been doing differently?

Val, can you answer this?

[Val89]

Listen, if you are looking for an excuse here to make yourself feel better, and you think there is some remote possiblity both me and catboi are town, and both have totally fucked this game up from day one; blame it all on me if you have to.

I would bet the game on catboi being scum here. Lim me, lim catboi when you see the green card, and some scum team we aren't looking take the game that way, you can not count this one towards your win/loss and just say "oh, well we had dickhead Val as town in that game, that one doesn't count."

But for the love of good, just lim me. I thought when Igor was hovering, saying he thought I was scum, putting myself in hammer range would have ended it rigth there. I even claimed without being asked so there was nothing to stop him from doing it, and you go and hop off, and now have the cheek to say I'm making the game hard.

[Val89]

Val, can you answer this?

Kiss my tail. Buzz off. etc.

[catboi]

I know this is not going to be at all convincing but I absolutely do not pause for an attempted come to jesus/hand of grace moment here as scum after I've aggressively bullied my way into the elim I want


I am leaving now and will not be able to see any replies until later but I really do want an answer

[catboi]

Val, can you answer this?

Kiss my tail. Buzz off. etc.

Listen, val, I know I've been really short with you at times this game, and that is probably frustrating to you (but I am going to be dismissive if I feel someone is arguing with me in a scummy way, because otherwise I am playing into what they want to do)


But I really think this is an entirely fair question and I am opening the floor to you because it is very important to me so I would appreciate an answer


If one of your points is that I shouldn't have been a dick to you,

okay

, duly noted, I am sorry. But I'm more interested in why I'm getting you wrong if you're town

[Val89]

(but I am going to be dismissive if I feel someone is arguing with me in a scummy way, because otherwise I am playing into what they want to do)

This.

[catboi]

Okay, I get that you don't like that. I'm looking at my original question and I guess I should be more precise. When I ask what I should be doing, I mean: what is causing me to misread you? Why am I incorrectly tunneled? What is there that I should be seeing as town that I am not?


I am trying to have empathy here

[catboi]

This is hard for me, especially when I feel as though someone is making reads/pushes that are wildly out of line with my own perceptions, doubly so when I feel they have approached me unfairly. But I am

trying

[catboi]

I have always found it incredibly hard to deal with being tunneled as town, for a very very long time

[Micc]

Votecount 2.11

Val89 (3) -

Greeting, Val89, frogsfrogs

Greeting (1) -

MafMen

frogsfrogs (1) -

igorsprite

Not Voting (3) -

StrangeMatter, implosion, catboi

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2021-11-13 11:05:00).

[Val89]

(I had something more to say here on why I am sure the sort of behavior that has been exhibited towards me in some posts can't be coming from town, but on reflection I think I will leave it until post-game.)

I've been thinking about if now is the right time to explain this, because it explains why I am not buying this olive-branch, or whatever it is supposed to be, as genuine in the slightest. I've concluded it will have to wait, because it skirts far too close to the line regarding outside infulence and another side-wide rule about a taboo discussion subject. I know that is going to be unsatisifying. I'm sorry. We can talking about it post-game if nessacary.

I am not, however, going to engage in this with catboi. I think this is bad faith, and he has an agenda here. If you want to read me saying so as alignment-indicative, so be it. I'm expecting to be flipped today in any case.

[implosion]

I would bet the game on catboi being scum here. Lim me, lim catboi when you see the green card, and some scum team we aren't looking take the game that way, you can not count this one towards your win/loss and just say "oh, well we had dickhead Val as town in that game, that one doesn't count."

So basically, you're saying that no one other than you is allowed to play the game anymore. No one else should have any emotional investment in this game that they've been playing for weeks, because *you* are so confident in this one read that you're "willing to stake the game on it" despite the fact that you won't be in the game anymore to stake the game on it.

Imagine if everyone in the game took this kind of attitude; imagine how deeply unfun the game of mafia would be if no one was ever willing to think twice about anything.

I'm

still willing

to look elsewhere, apart from you and catboi, even for a lim today! At least in principle. But you playing like this makes that literally impossible. If you're taking this tact then I'm going to actively ignore everything you're saying right now after you're eliminated if you flip town, out of a combination of not being convinced, spite, and trying to convince you to actually play the darn game today.

[catboi]

(I had something more to say here on why I am sure the sort of behavior that has been exhibited towards me in some posts can't be coming from town, but on reflection I think I will leave it until post-game.)

I've been thinking about if now is the right time to explain this, because it explains why I am not buying this olive-branch, or whatever it is supposed to be, as genuine in the slightest. I've concluded it will have to wait, because it skirts far too close to the line regarding outside infulence and another side-wide rule about a taboo discussion subject. I know that is going to be unsatisifying. I'm sorry. We can talking about it post-game if nessacary.

I am not, however, going to engage in this with catboi. I think this is bad faith, and he has an agenda here. If you want to read me saying so as alignment-indicative, so be it. I'm expecting to be flipped today in any case.

Val,

please

There's a lot of issues I have with you this game, and this is probably going to lead to a lengthy discussion postgame

But you have to understand that for however flawed my play has been, and there's a lot I wish I could have done better, me being a dick and disagreeing with you is not a scumtell

And I feel like that is possibly an unspoken cause of why you've been so deadset on killing me? But if that's the case, not saying it means I can't respond to it, and instead you're arguing about other stuff


And you have to understand, the way you have come at me at times makes me feel like you are simply trying to paint me in the worst light possible - this was especially the case with you asking me about my read of igorsprite, because it felt like you didn't actually care about what my thoughts were and were just trying to "win" an argument with me so you could make me look bad

I'm making no excuses for myself, I was rude toward you in ways that are inappropriate and I apologize for that. But you need to understand the way you've been playing is terribly frustrating to deal with, and if you are town that is a huge problem (if you are scum, well, it's totally valid and I'll leave it at that)

[catboi]

I'm still willing to look elsewhere, apart from you and catboi, even for a lim today! At least in principle. But you playing like this makes that literally impossible. If you're taking this tact then I'm going to actively ignore everything you're saying right now after you're eliminated if you flip town, out of a combination of not being convinced, spite, and trying to convince you to actually play the darn game today.

I am going to blindly put my trust in you being town here. I have completely and utterly lost all appetite for yeeting Val. I wish I didn't have to push things this far to get there, but what's done is done and I have to pick up the pieces.


Who can we move to as an alternative? Who could I be misreading?

[catboi]

I want to flashwagon somewhere else but I need help

[implosion]

I mean my confidence in anything in this gamestate is nil.

I might be willing to try frogsfrogs but while I agree with the sentiment of "lost all appetite" i just don't know if that's the right attitude to have here.

I think the fact that both of us are willing to go elsewhere changes the gamestate a lot and as a first resort it might be good to see what others think of that occurrence. I feel like it fundamentally has to be extremely hard to play as mafia in this kind of game where things are constantly changing on a dime.