In post 2289, unwnd wrote:This does not feel similar to scum Dunn who is just watching the town undo themselves while making strong observational points that get him townread. It's not a strong read but I'm purely instinctive right now
tbf i actually don't know his meta or particularly what his scumgame looks like
but he's basically sitting on the sidelines making random mechanical observations and i think that's scummy
she shades him as an aside here, sort of positioning herself on the right side of history (but again never votes dunn!)
but doubt it's a conversation that happens as s/s/s
In post 2759, Taly wrote:Unwnd, if you're going to rip into my soul, type quicker.
I got a curfew.
Also sorry but what does this mean wrt how ur reading unwnd?
I took his last post of "but actually" as a "will get to you
Taly
ASAP."
In post 2801, skitter30 wrote:I felt his mortal-kombat reaction just now doesnt come from scum-him
Dunn wouod also be a good vote
VOTE: Dunn
Teamwork makes the dreamwork.
Dunn
, do something.
Ah ok - was willing for a read/ur thoughts on the unwnd/ydra thing. Would u mind sharing that and/or requoting if i missed it
(Tomorrow is fine tho, night!)
And a dunn/unwnd duel would be cool
and again like if you're telling me she's pulling some over the top double bus
in blue room defends skitter, which isn't damning in and of itself, i was skeptical of gammagooey's reasoning as well, but it is notable, only even suggests compromising on skitt when the rest of us end up tunneled on infinity
quoted in that topic is this early reads list:
In post 1965, Gamma Emerald wrote:Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo
I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus
which feels suspiciously accurate? of course unwnd had strong reads too but it felt like with that slot there's been followthrough
whereas with gamma it felt like dunn was getting a light touch? and he had to be practically dragged into killing the saberslot
In post 541, Prism wrote:For your scumplay I highlighted it for you that you had a terrible habit of putting all of your scumteam in your scumreads and you proceeded to keep doing it in your next several games, which I'd have to find later as I don't want to comb through them right now.
In post 1735, Gamma Emerald wrote:In a way it feels like Dunnstral has been playing a different game than the rest of us, his focus and thought process seems so out of line with what's going on. While that's probably scum-indicating, I also feel like it's something I again want to put up for discussion rather than acting on now.
a concerning thing for me is despite voting dunn in the first event he talks himself out of targeting him with the execution here
and the reaction to the sabotage was really flat! ulyana pointed out as much at the time and it's stuck with me! more concerningly, saber pointed it out, and scum hedging on that type of read is typically a byproduct of knowing the person is scum
: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.
In post 1783, Gamma Emerald wrote:@Dunnstral: can you talk about why you've responded to certain things that you did and when you did so? I think that's the greatest bother for me about you currently.
I haven't read the whole game. When I come into thread I try to respond to what I can, but not necessarily everything. I try to focus on the current votes and why things are happening.
Let me be more direct. Why did you respond to me pushing Ulyana? That felt like an odd thing to focus on.
In post 1882, Dunnstral wrote:That's what was current when I was in thread and Ulyana is one of my only townreads in this game. I didn't like the push there.
In post 2223, Gamma Emerald wrote:Actually now that I think about it lurkscum does feel like the “right” choice
So I’d maybe say Dunnstral/Toog/Ydrasse are the best options from an objective POV
unwnd I need to see how he plays but I wouldn’t have advocated putting Galron in under this logic
Btw this isn’t “vote player a in, votes reset, and then we vote player b in”. Once a person gets hammered the second-place wagon gets hammered with them. So beware that probably.
In post 2215, unwnd wrote:I'm reading Cakez' ISO now and about 10-15 posts in I think he's scum
What are the rest of you doing lol
I also think he is scum
To be clear, I voted Gamma to E-1 when that vote was pretty much locked in. Gamma asked to be eliminated within an hour, and two people declared intent right after my vote.
Then we spent an extra 3 days actually doing the thing
In post 2235, Dunnstral wrote:
I'm just preemptively explaining why I wasn't voting cakez at the end of day since unwnd replaced in and was asking about it.
No one was really voting Cakez at EoD, although it was brought up which is kinda why I think he hammered
The hammer is like, the one thing I could see as suspicious in his play, and I’m pretty sure he’s got a track record of making scummy moves as town. I think Betrayal mafia is one of the key moments where I got misled by him doing something like that.
In post 2244, Dunnstral wrote:I think it will be more clear whether we've received a benefit when we know more about the event.
I don’t think the mod fool enough to make it something that would even be apparent with that info. Her emphasis seems to be on not retroactively modspewing the alignment of the person in the chair. I think you’re right it’ll be less nebulous when the event is known but not to the degree of certainty your post seems to convey.
This thought has crossed my mind, though I feel like at least one would be trying to shake that label, which might fit Cakez
I think I may want Cakez as the second in the duel because I’m starting to see reasons to SR him but also don’t feel like I’m seeing stuff that contradicts what I had seen in him
How does that even relate
You seem consistently tone-deaf this game and I have no idea what that means for you
here's these gamma emerald interactions with dunn post-chair and...none of them are very good? half of them are mechanical discussion, gamma never at any point really looks like he's trying to solve dunn or put pressure on him, that last quote in particular is pretty back, it's so awkward and in-between
In post 3257, Dunnstral wrote:How is voting out me different than voting out toog for the game state?
it's not
I think you're both fine to be in the duel for that exact reason
the most you get is this which is
fine
but considering skitter was soft bussing dunn while not voting him i don't think it gives any cred whatsoever, and it basically comes with not much in the way of progression after "idk what to make of you" to dunn
In post 1731, Gamma Emerald wrote:I’m shifting into ISO reading for probably the rest of my deliberation because just reading the game regularly is starting to feel like the well of info has dried
Saber’s early progression through the game seems pretty alright, I just feel like there was a lot of flowery content in the way of that and we also had the square-off about my TRs that set me against her. I’d like a chance to actually have a heart-to-heart, so she’s exempted from the kill.
: I get how you thought my play was erratic in a way that felt tactical, but I can probably point to a few games where I've made sharp turns at critical moments as town. What I think I'm most interested in is your reads in general, because aside from your reads on me and Galron, those don't feel exactly clear rn. I've at least sussed out from your ISO that you TR Taly and ulyana.
In post 1965, Gamma Emerald wrote:Trust these people until the end of time: Taly, Infinity, Skitter, Ydrasse, Sircakez
Good folks to keep around: Gypyx, Petapan
Could do with a touching-up: Dunnstral, Dwlee, Ulyana
Remove them from the premises: Saber, Galron, Toogeloo
I think I’m sitting somewhere around here?
FYI I kinda felt like Saber’s response to my question about the progression on me felt a little sus
In post 2441, petapan wrote:reread the last 40ish posts from infinity's iso as a check and think she's fine. i don't find it, like, whelmingly towny and she's maybe faded a bit in terms of actively doing things but nothing particularly looks bad in there.
similarly took a look at saber because she was a blind spot for me and wanted to check that. posting styl is very formal which i'm always going to struggle with, on the one had she looks the part of a townie and on the other i just always find posts that are more carefully constructed to be suspicious. has mostly focused attention on the popular targets in gamma and galron but her reasons there have made sense they haven't been, like, scummy pushing necessarily. maybe a bit narrow focused but like i said earlier, looks the part. probably wouldn't be able to read without flips, wouldn't want to flip today
In post 2443, petapan wrote:cakez's early game is bad but i think he gets better later. there is some stuff from him i think is maybe towny that i don't feel like going into. i don't think the reasons for suspecting him (lack of nuance, being behind on the game) are really alignment indicative. do want to see more from him but wouldn't really fade at this point in time
I like these reads rn
the cakez read also kinda lines up with my thoughts
there's no progression on this from gamma: he says saber is sus and she's in his scumreads, but then suddenly when i say that i wouldn't flip saber but am scumreading cakez, he likes that?
In post 1918, Saber wrote:It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.
My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.
In post 1918, Saber wrote:It was less about it being tactical, and more about it feeling unnatural.
My issue rn kinda lies with this comment. I feel like it’s a bit revisionist history given pushing me is no longer the in mode thing to do. Before this I distinctly recall you saying when I was switching things up it felt to you like I was scum seeing my current approach wasn’t working and trying something new. That is essentially being tactical about switching up my play. And yet you nitpick my word choice like this, it feels incredibly concerning, like you’re trying to detach yourself from the push on me you had before.
Yes, it was both. My point was that your shifts in attitude seemed unnatural, which is the main way to tell whether they're from a stagehand or contestant. It can only be theorised whether they're actually tactical because they didn't even go well for you. For example, your acting like a jester and then turning on Prism only seemed to attract more heat on you, so saying it's a stagehand tactic is iffy since you'd be actively pursuing bad tactics. I'd prefer to look at whether it was actually natural for you start acting those ways when you did.
In post 6760, Ydrasse wrote:remember when i said gamma was looking wild? couldn’t be me
p sure it’s just gamma taly is probably town and it makes me sad mr. gooey did this to us
yes i will try to back this up when i am not sick. yes i have been sick for two weeks and sleep a ton after work.
yeah it's just super frustrating taly is being so erratic?
mostly i feel as though the actual reasons being given for townreading gamma emerald are not all that good
also gosh i hope everything is all right, being sick for that long seems pretty bad
(weak nya and a thumbs up where you see my pale lifeless flesh barely holding on) maybe so but i’m just gonna keep taking medicine until i simply become healthy
warrior cats mafia is now in a queue near you!
- ☆ - ☆ - ☆ -
kill me and live with the memory — then tell the stars that you
also maybe i shouldn’t risk it all again on ate but saying you need to foe someone etc specifically would be a little fucked to say in a game to a scum partner so here’s hoping you haven’t decided to retire this account with a sharp scumgame
warrior cats mafia is now in a queue near you!
- ☆ - ☆ - ☆ -
kill me and live with the memory — then tell the stars that you
In post 6765, Ydrasse wrote:also maybe i shouldn’t risk it all again on ate but saying you need to foe someone etc specifically would be a little fucked to say in a game to a scum partner so here’s hoping you haven’t decided to retire this account with a sharp scumgame
i'm not a goddamn sociopath who is so compelled to bus (a slot that MOST OF THE TOWN WAS OKAY WITH) that i push them to the point where they complain it's harming their mental health. or stage that as an argument. just. holy hell.
In post 3547, Gamma Emerald wrote:Thinking about it very much makes sense things went the way they did if Saber is scum
In post 3561, Gamma Emerald wrote:I feel like it’s possible 2 scum were in the pink room and since the wagon was landing on Infinity, who is sussing Saber, the scum in the pink room just wanted an opponent that wouldn’t get votes over infinity.
In post 3729, Ydrasse wrote:gamma, genuine question here: why not do the inverse of what you’re doing (towncasing infinity) by scum casing peta if you’re that certain infinity is town? i guess that makes sense to me because you’re treating them as preflipped town so why not go to the other option to save them?
Because I’m not sure peta is scum. By play I think he’s obvtown (knock on wood), the main way I could see him as scum is based on the gamestate
Thinking about it I feel like exactly one of peta/Saber is scum here, so that’s like, the lone argument I can come up with there. Because like, there’s an alternative reaction to having a scumbuddy flip besides deflating, and that’s to overcompensate. Peta outposted everyone in the blue room by a mile.
How did everyone in the pink room act when they started posting?
In post 3932, Dwlee99 wrote:Another inconsistency with Skitter's "infinity is town because Dunn vote!" Thing when I voted Dunn way before that and was pushing him to be part of the duel very hard
Actually yeah
You and I WERE the strongest pushers on
Dunn
Event 2.
I’m pretty sure most of the time I was pushing Dunn as well
I did try to put Saber against Toog at one point but that was because unwnd wanted a saber flip
notably gamma trying to take credit for the dunn pelt here
meanwhile a bunch of posts talking about saber as scum
In post 4058, Gamma Emerald wrote:What if it was Toog and 2 people in blue team? There was an early sentiment that the duel wasn’t really clearing for Toog, but they never gained traction. Maybe that’s why they didn’t feel pressured? And with Infinity getting nominated and how many people were sussing them, Toog could basically do whatever in the pink room with the knowledge that it was basically going to be a landslide. As for the duel, I just looked at the votes and Peta and Saber were the last two.
Now I’m worried about a Peta/Harley/Toog team tbh
I started this as an attempt to devil’s advocate but this all sounds internally consistent
In post 4187, Gamma Emerald wrote:Hang on: peta, why do you deem Saber's entry into the blue room as less-than-passable?
In post 4189, Gamma Emerald wrote:Okay so my first determination from looking at D1 VCs is that Toog is like almost assuredly scum here. He kinda hangs back early, then makes some weird votes on Prism and peta. He then sheeps me onto Dunn and later Galron. I think the fact he sheeped me like he did there might be the most damning part, as it seems pretty much like he was doing a thing I've noted scum to commonly do where they'll sorta glue themselves to a townie. In Among Us, I noticed Cakez doing this with Battle Mage, and in Mini 2234 T3 did it with StD. It's not a 100% tell but it feels pretty probable that's what Toog's MO was.
In post 4198, Gamma Emerald wrote:Like, it's all room shit, defending himself via the shoot-out, and basically nothing that looks substantive
I can't tell where his mind is at in this duel at all and yet he's voting to start. THAT'S A PROBLEM.
I think that'd kill peta based on the event rules
even if it doesn't do that based on the exact rule I'm thinking of, scum still get a choice of who to kill in the pair, so someone is required to die this phase
In post 4202, Gamma Emerald wrote:I honestly can't tell what the fuck peta sees wrong with saber's posting, actually. idg how it's deflated, I think she had a reasonable post density compared to how much she posted in the main thread before the split decision event came along
In post 3385, petapan wrote:saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus
this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her
this is basically the most in-depth peta has gone on the subject so far
the sudden pivot to saber/HQ defense is super weird because gamma had been suspicious of that slot entirely independent of my case, i thought?
In post 4202, Gamma Emerald wrote:I honestly can't tell what the fuck peta sees wrong with saber's posting, actually. idg how it's deflated, I think she had a reasonable post density compared to how much she posted in the main thread before the split decision event came along
In post 3385, petapan wrote:saber initially called out infinity's vote on dunn as a potential bus
this is partly problematic because i think saber's posts in the topic were absolutely fucking wretched but i wasn't going to talk myself out of a vote because a suspect was leading it. unwnd was actually looking at other people briefly before the sub out because he suspected saber and didn't want to vote with her
this is basically the most in-depth peta has gone on the subject so far
again: gamma was supposedly suspicious of saber before this
In post 4707, Gamma Emerald wrote:Strong TRs: (GE, peta, Taly)
Weak TRs: (skitter, Ggy)
In flux: (ydrasse, ulyana)
Weak SRs: (cakez, HQ)
Strong SRs: (dwlee, gypyx, toog)
This is where my reads are basically at atp. Up until just recently cakez and gypyx were switched, but I'm heeding peta a little bit on cakez and I remembered something gypyx posted in the blue room that pings quite a bit now that infinity has flipped town.
HURT: toog, gypyx, dwlee, (harley/cakez)
my desired order would be something like
(whichever of cakez/HQ isn't left out)
ulyana
ydrasse
(skitter+Ggy in either order)
Taly
(me+Peta in either order)
if we wanna do most to least towny for the crossing, basically just flip this order
In post 4705, Gamma Emerald wrote:there's also a good bit I don't like from cakez rn so he's still in my lower tiers
go into it?
I don't like how he went through events 3 and 4 pretty much at all
I'm also worried about how his reads sound, it's a case of "seems logical but not in a definitively town sense", which I had towards cephrir in Radio Buzz
there's another slot I'm of that opinion towards in this game as well somewhat, but I'm more willing to trust that person than I am cakez
look at this list. look at this fucking list. gamma has HQ toward the bottom of it but 4th, with just enough wiggle room to potentially slip through while leaving an all town group behind
basically every dead town who has flipped town was pushed by gamma (including dwlee) while he only seemingly begrudgingly went along with the scumreads
