Mini Normal 2249 | The Fish in the Sea | Game Over

[Almost50]

Why do I feel like we're playing a game of chess with both sides adopting a defensive approach and waiting for the other one to make the first move?

[T3]

because I don't think whoever said az's content was all revolving around andante was wrong

is that supposed to be scummy? and i actually do interact with a lot of people during this process while trying to convince them. i also have an entire readslist. im quite sure you haven't even given a reads list yet.

Spoiler:

VOTE: murdercat

Eliminate all cats!!!

I have changed my avatar to represent our team! Go doggos!!

whaaatttt you must be mistaken!!! I am no enemy....

I love Chara!!!!

I'd say we trust lizards for now... cats are the number 1 enemy

oh wait, is it cause I refuse to fall under your rule?

andante i'm a town dolphin this time what about you

I'm a town doggo!!! WOOF WOOF

Anya I want questions!!!

@andante

can you explain:

why you joined the dog alliance
why you called yourself andante
why you're a wolf
why you voted for nero cain
why you're lurking and not answering my questions

YEESSS

why you joined the dog alliance- WOOF WOOF WOOF BARK WOOF
why you called yourself andante - BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK
why you're a wolf- AWOOOOOOOOOO
why you voted for nero cain- WOOF BARK BARK WOOF WOOF
why you're lurking and not answering my questions- WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF WOOF

@cakez u don't have to worry too much about me hyperposting. I will be alot less active starting tomorrow till weekend. This is day off. I also have interview/final exam and normal working hours this week so yeah...wont be spamming like my usual stuff. I think right now everyone will be posting alot and speed will die down in 24 hours after excitement of game start gets over with.

@chara good. all going according to my plan

im really enjoying all of andante posts and don''t know how much is due to avatar lol

I'm glad you love my posts!!

non doggos rise up

i will be the chameleon shepherd to lead us to greatness and wipe these dogs off the face of this farm

Woah there... we can't have a rebellion happening!!!

VOTE: Anya

im really enjoying all of andante posts and don''t know how much is due to avatar lol

i liked Andante's very first post where i was complimented and the avatar was different, so absolutely no biases here.

You should also be in the high doggo ranks!!

A bear has appeared...

but I like the "death to all cats"

Pooky always looking at the bright side of life! Spoken like a true doggo!!! I think he's actually one of us!

all dogs must be killed to death

such a shame that we outnumber you

andante has a stroke by page 2 but has noticeabely less of a stroke and does not recover from said stroke

i originally did scum read the excitement but now i do not. however, there is one specific thing that i am looking for because every time that showed up strong, i was totally certain andante was town and the opening post reflected that every time. even in the couple posts you quoted here, that thing that i am mentioning is present.

1. Almost50 - town but depends on meta
2. Azaariah - poe
3. Andante - poe
4. geraintm - not limming today
5. Dwlee99 - poe
6. Holiday - lean town
7. osuka - poe
8. T3
9. Free Spirit NorwegianBoyEE - town
10. Hella Jeff - town
11. Gamma Emerald - poe
12. April Ludgate - town
13. Something_Smart - lean town

i dont like this. the poe is really gross. it really looks like you are just placing everyone who took part in the 1v1 between andante and i and put them in poe because we are being discussed right now and most likely to come under pressure. the town reads are also just not good. you townread everyone who basically hasn't done anything (relative to the current "1v1") or have a decent amount of town reads. thats pretty lazy. you're just calling everyone who is partaking in this specific discussion poe which honestly is true, but i really hate that it's written out like this. it's very unsettling to see.

but I kinda want to go in norwee/holiday here, something tells me going in there is good

Seems like an odd choice based on who you've been ranting about these last pages.

Seems like a great choice to me, the 2 of you are acting the exact same, and ganging up against me, one yall could be town, but there is no freaking way you both are.

if there is scum, its norwegian boy. i am confident that holiday is town. but either way this argument just isn't valid. it might be true but it's still not valid because two people pushing you does not even mean one is scum. thats just not true.

Hm, i feel like your posts are pretty townie lately T3.
I reluctantly add you to townread.

Not sure i necessarily agree with everything you say, but i think it comes from a town mindset now.

what? i want to vote t3 over these posts. and i am okay with compromising on t3 today and i'll reread and try to reevaluate andante over the night if that cannot happen today. chances are that my mind doesn't change but it's hard to say.

You’re shading me without inquiring further even though I’ve explained most of my reads.
Come on.
VOTE: azar[/b]

[NorwegianboyEE]

Omg my mom takes like 20 minutes talking in the phone every single time with me.

[T3]

VOTE: azar

[geraintm]

Also the problem with D1 nihilism is that if everyone buys into it and just treats D1 like it's pointless and random then D2 becomes another D1.

nah, town will have some info from the first night to play 1.
and being a solo nihilist means i do get to look at what everyone else does.

ok. i want t3 at the moment.

naughty point for you. your first push has failed and you are off onto the next one...

Why do I feel like we're playing a game of chess with both sides adopting a defensive approach and waiting for the other one to make the first move?

i think it is the lack of vote counts. only 3 so far means the game feels slow. when they get posted the top of every page a game gets a different vibe to it
{note, this isn't me saying anything bad about how often Mod is posting them}

[Something_Smart]

nah, town will have some info from the first night to play 1.

maybe like 1-2 people will, but they're not really going to want to share that, are they?

your other point is fair though; not everyone plays the same way and it wouldn't be good for the game if they did anyway. But I'm not convinced that D1 nihilism really adds anything of value to the game, especially since it's clearly possible for some people to get valuable reads on D1.

[NorwegianboyEE]

your other point is fair though; not everyone plays the same way and it wouldn't be good for the game if they did anyway. But I'm not convinced that D1 nihilism really adds anything of value to the game, especially since it's clearly possible for some people to get valuable reads on D1.

I agree on this.
I'm not saying it's necesarry for every single player to HAVE good reads, or to share reads they aren't confident in if they think their early reads are usually bad.
But that doesn't mean you have to be debbie downer and be like "lol, why you guys even trying, day 1 sucks. impossible to get good reads. stop trying guys, sigh this sucks ohh day 1 boo hoooo"

[T3]

blegh
no ai stuff

[Something_Smart]

Also, someone who's been on the site 15 years thinking a D1 miller claim isn't serious is frankly ridiculous.

[Hella Jeff]

reduced activity 2day

[Hella Jeff]

i dont like this. the poe is really gross. it really looks like you are just placing everyone who took part in the 1v1 between andante and i and put them in poe because we are being discussed right now and most likely to come under pressure. the town reads are also just not good.

you townread everyone who basically hasn't done anything (relative to the current "1v1") or have a decent amount of town reads.

thats pretty lazy.

ok Azaariah said this, not T3, just yoinked it from his post and formatting 2hard
firstly, where do i fall in bolded?
my townreads are the polar opposite and could be generalized as just as lazy. is this something you've missed or is there a reason why you haven't called it out?

[Hella Jeff]

im interested in this because i that slot hasn't jumped out to me in that way, but it also hasn't jumped out to me as particularly genuine. i have a townlean there, but it's very weak. in what way is his game political?

gut, but feels like legitimate interest in my slot and april's
as in none of it seems forced?

[Azaariah]

i dont like this. the poe is really gross. it really looks like you are just placing everyone who took part in the 1v1 between andante and i and put them in poe because we are being discussed right now and most likely to come under pressure. the town reads are also just not good.

you townread everyone who basically hasn't done anything (relative to the current "1v1") or have a decent amount of town reads.

thats pretty lazy.

ok Azaariah said this, not T3, just yoinked it from his post and formatting 2hard
firstly, where do i fall in bolded?
my townreads are the polar opposite and could be generalized as just as lazy. is this something you've missed or is there a reason why you haven't called it out?

I dont find an issue with one lazy read but a full set? i do have an issue with that.

[Andante]

Aza your giant speech on me made me so freaking sad... it sounded like you were just wanting me dead cause I talk a lot, but like, when I'm not talking, this stuff feels super dead, I bring LIFE!!!!

(Also, going "I don't care if andante flips town, it's better for the gamestate" is a terrible motto to live by, also if you're town, there is no freaking reason as to why you should be discussing my possible role here)


And one more thing, how often do scum fake claim miller?
Cause I was thinking about that miller thing, and due to my past experiences, "miller" has me scarred lol, only takes getting yelled at once for not claiming it to have that just set in stone in your mind lol

[Andante]

It's not jeff and gamma. hahahaha there is no way these 2 are partners, Jeff who are you thinking is town?

i'm still definitely content on townreading a50 and holiday, i think a50's play has felt pure and 'individual', as incredibly vague as those two terms are. i don't think it's something i can articulate without actually sitting down for it
i haven't called out every instance of it (but i can if asked) but i've melded with holiday more than once. lots of agreement, same reactions to specific posts its like god damn!

then i get below and it gets super shaky.
{andante, T3, azaariah} are a tier below, but while

all three of them are in wagons

, honestly can't look at them badly right now, i think all of them have shown genuine conviction in game-specific topics
and uh sure i'll take dwlee's claim at face value
that's my top 7

Ooh I really like this post, it's good, like, I think this single post sends you to the top of my TRs, it's just the way you answered my question, I really do like it, and I think I'm gonna look more into your TRs tomorrow, and if I have questions I'll ask, cause if I can figure out town, the scum pool gets smaller, and ultimately that's gonna make life so much easier. But I really do love how you answered "who's town" it's so much better than "well idk" which is how I feel some others would've answered. I also have this feeling with a handful of Holiday posts, like "Holiday has to be town" but like, it scares me, I'd almost bet it's the same posts as you, but there's certain posts that stand out a lot, I think that list and Something_Smart (ss sounds too much like a snake, and no snakes here! only fish) contains most if not all town, possibly norwee too. Then that leaves April, gamma, gerain, osuka, and in that I get good vibes from Gamma, osuka, I think was maf in the game I played, I need to check, but osuka seems to be almost identical to the last normal game I played, looking that up real quick... yes, osuka maf this game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86324 and I think osuka is playing very similar, if not the same way. YOOOO I think we're on to something here!!!

hahaha sorry I just kept going, letting my brain flow, this is something I'm 100% revisiting tomorrow, but I did link the osuka maf game, however, I think a lot of it is just osuka's personality, so mehhh I don't think I ever SRed osuka that game hahaha ok goodnight yall!! I don't need to start going into Complex Mafia Theory tonight, cause let me tell yall... I could go on forever about some stupid thing. ahhhhh ok, agreeing with jeff, turned into a brain dump, and with that. Goodnight friends!!!!

Ignore this, I need it for reference, and no I'm not making a word doc/organizing my thoughts elsewhere, we do it right here on the spot! sorta lol

[Andante]

also, if anyone has any questions for me, lemme know!!!

[Something_Smart]

And one more thing, how often do scum fake claim miller?

I have not seen a true or fake miller claim in a while. The role has become pretty rare.

It used to be... relatively common, I would say, but maybe I'm biased because I've done it (and got away with it, too, though I probably shouldn't have).

Given that miller has become rarer I would say fakeclaiming it would also probably be rare.

[Andante]

And one more thing, how often do scum fake claim miller?

I have not seen a true or fake miller claim in a while. The role has become pretty rare.

It used to be... relatively common, I would say, but maybe I'm biased because I've done it (and got away with it, too, though I probably shouldn't have).

Given that miller has become rarer I would say fakeclaiming it would also probably be rare.

Hmm alright, I was just curious if it was a common thing around here, my "recent" game I was a miller who didn't even know I was miller, so I'm half thinking it's just a joke cause of that game lol but realistically thinking about it, probably town, I just don't like the "I'm miller and plan on doing nothing" attitude, like, that's what also isn't selling it

[Andante]

Oh! Jeff,
if you're around, I would love some explanation on T3, you say you can't look at him badly and that he's shown "genuine conviction in game-specific topics" I would really love some help seeing what makes him towny, A50 I'm not fully certain on, but I can see a Holiday/aza/dwlee town world. T3 is the one I would really love to hear more on though if you have a moment

[Hella Jeff]

I dont find an issue with one lazy read but a full set? i do have an issue with that.

no, mine's a full set as it can be generalized that way is what i'm saying

Oh! Jeff,
if you're around, I would love some explanation on T3, you say you can't look at him badly and that he's shown "genuine conviction in game-specific topics" I would really love some help seeing what makes him towny, A50 I'm not fully certain on, but I can see a Holiday/aza/dwlee town world. T3 is the one I would really love to hear more on though if you have a moment

1 hour and 16 minutes

acknowledging this one, i'll be sure to give out a fleshed out answer when i get back here

[Gamma Emerald]

Andante is town, like cmon

[Andante]

lol Jeff, this started as me going "Ok, Jeff doesn't think T3 is scum, I just need to see enough, and I'll take his word for it" well, turned into a little case on T3, tldr at bottom:

It’s that i had an particular thought about A50, but T3 seemed to just want to agree that it was a weird tone, but nothing scummy. Which begs the question of why he’d agree on something but then tone back on it when asked to elaborate.
Just reads really scummy to me.

his post was weird tone
his post was also nai
logik

^ "T3 seemed to just want to agree that it was a weird tone, but nothing scummy" Only after Norwee talks about how T3 reads scummy, does T3 "explain" the post in question, but like for me, looking at a lot of these other lines I quoted, T3's entire playstyle seems to be "This has this tone, so this person is this" or "this has these vibes, so this is town" why make a point to go "it's weird but nai"?

as both alignments i do spur of the moment posting
town me tends to get burned out after a while and makes less sense
scum me can consistently post and makes more sense

^ Rather than try to read anyone, he's giving "self meta" like, if you're aware of it, you can change how you play, people sharing meta about themselves? what even??? "Hey so scum me does this, notice how I'm not doing that?" idk I hate the entire concept of people trying to rely solely off meta. I understand wanting to look at past game for people, but that's where you go "I read Something_Smart's past few games, he does this as town, and he did that this game, I think both match up" I don't tend to just straight to meta on day 1 though, I like having it in the back of my mind for difficult reads, but ehhh, and self meta? yeah no thanks.

ninjad
dunno
i'll meta her and see ig

^"time to meta someone 300 posts into the game" right, cause there is so much content here for that.

idk andante's meta, I just know T3 reacted to me and andante the same way and I think T3's reaction to me was scum dodging giving a stance, and I feel like the execution of that would be different on a townie vs a scum partner, so the matching execution is town indicative for andante

Ehhh, which posts were these?

the post where gamma says can i just have fun
then you call it towny and try to argue people out of it
if you were koba, which i thought you might be, then that sequence makes you/gamma decent s/s
i decided to pry further into it by asking the question about the alt
you then promptly altslipled

^ " I think T3's reaction to me was scum dodging giving a stance" was initially said by Gamma, and instead of going "I wasn't trying to ignore you, I genuinely didn't see it" and trying to clarify anything, T3 gives a recap of something I was making a deal out of, and tries to change the topic. Doesn't seem like a towny mindset to me, like it wasn't even a challenging question!!!

your play here seems very similar to that so you can get a towered

^ Are we sure T3 is actually trying to find scum here? "ehhh seems similar. town" without sharing anything to try and convince anyone else of this tr.

I just tried to meta ss and got nothing except general just different vibes between scum and town games. This game he’s got the *town vibe* so that’s good I guess?

^ more meta talk

We should flip t3

I took 76 minutes to meta ss

^ Why do any of us genuinely care an hour and 16 minutes were spent on Something_Smart, when I'm pretty sure no one was really pushing him??




~~~ Conclusions ~~~
I don't think T3 is town, and am confused how anyone has him better than null tbh.
EVERY SINGLE line is just "good tone, this person town" or "meta says X is town"
like, T3, if you are town can you please try to actually help show that your TRs are town or something? idk, I know a lot of this is playstyle related, and this playstyle drives me crazy, but unless something happens, I'll be ending the day with a vote on T3 tbh. T3 has so many posts, and none are game advancing at all.

[Andante]

Andante is town, like cmon

I know I am, but are you?

[Andante]

Another thing that doesn't sit too well with me, A50, yes they subbed into a maf slot this game, but I think their play thus far has been super similar to:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=86330

The carefree, "I'm not doing anything" personality. I'm just struggling to see A50 as anything higher than null here as well.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’d always be down to kill a do-nothing A50