Slaughter Hour: The Grand Debut! | Fin

[Taly]

Peta, what do you think is more likely?

Gamma-scum wanted to kill off potential mislim Galron and scum stopped this to protect themselves. It could be inferred that Galron was a framing, if Gamma is scum here, but why wasn't that a point of discussion in the duel?

Or

Gamma-town was right in the ballpark of susaing a lot of slots that scum both wanted to kingmake, but they felt a sabotage would be the most effective way at protecting them?

[Taly]

Since I'm certain Gamma/Galron truly was a T/S relationship, we can definitively say that scum was on both wagons.

I recall Skittwe being on Galron, and Saber on Gamma.

[Taly]

Gamma's wagon was also much stronger and likeliest to succeed over any other at the end of Event 1.

So scum either voted Galron with the desire to avoid backlash (since they aren't distancing from Gamma-scum in this reality) or they're wanting Galron-scum to be a safe runner-up kingmaker so they control the shot. This assumes they knew what kingmaker does though.

[Gamma Emerald]

I feel like the best things I can point to in defense of myself are the fact I was pretty instrumental in putting through the duel pair that went through for e3, and my attempt to change up the order of crossing in e5. Yeah I did kinda suggest something that could have sent skitter across but I mentioned that as a side concept, I wasn't actively pushing for that to happen. It was also like, really weird for me to do that just to kill dwlee if I'm scum? I feel like ulyana would have been a better kill for the fact that I could have then rode the narrative that "oh I can trust our mindmelding that was going on from before"

[Taly]

The exempt: Taly, Ydrasse, skitter30, Infinity 324, ulyana, Gypyx
The tbd: Saber, PookyTheMagicalBear, SirCakez, Toogeloo, Galron, Dunnstral
The watchlist: Dwlee99, Cephrir, petapan

Anyone in the top row I will not shoot. The bottom row is where I’d feel best shooting. Middle row is folks I need to suss out, or at least don’t want to kill yet but not enough to take them off the table. Names might move around the bottom two tiers a bit, but if a name is in the top tier expect it to stay there. These also aren’t in direct correlation with my reads because like, I’d rate ulya as in the next-to-bottom tier using my existing method, but desire to hash stuff out with her puts her squarely outside the realm of ever being someone I execute here.

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

I think maybe we should give the throne to someone who

doesn't

want it

because scumbags know if this thing is good or not.

if it's good, scumbags will want it.

if it's bad, scumbags won't want it.

So if we give it to someone who wants it, it's more likely we give it to a scumbag if it's good, and a non-scumbag if it's bad.

Yeah it seems like Pooky is on my wavelength that I expressed in response to 126 about how scum would’ve approached this.

Also I think I can pinpoint the page this post was on as where everything went to shit for me.

its almost like he knows something we dont

More like I just dgaf
I’ve already basically checked out because I tried playing serious and it felt like everyone had a problem with that. So instead I’m just being Captain Capricious and doing whatever the fuck I want. And rn I want to fuck with people.

Looking back it’s clear what the catalyst for me going “fuck this game” was: it was Prism and peta barking at me for responses and answers. I basically had the reaction of “going with this is just going to make this game infinitely more exhausting than I’d like, so I’m going to defy it”. Turns out this game ended up being exhausting but not because of a million questions.

Also, another very random note that Pooky evoked: if a dance event comes up and we’re both alive for it, I want to pair with Cakez.

I’m shifting into ISO reading for probably the rest of my deliberation because just reading the game regularly is starting to feel like the well of info has dried
Saber’s early progression through the game seems pretty alright, I just feel like there was a lot of flowery content in the way of that and we also had the square-off about my TRs that set me against her. I’d like a chance to actually have a heart-to-heart, so she’s exempted from the kill.

I think I’m also good with exempting Cakez for a couple of reasons. Let’s get this out of the way first, yes I want to dance with him eventually. He also just, hasn’t felt scummy at all? I feel like I’m normally really good at picking out when his vibes are off. I managed to ID CL!Cakez off of a very loose grasp of his play in 3d20. Times where I’ve been off-track are probably mostly attributable to other factors.

I’m starting to feel weary, so I’ll finish this up after sleepy time

alright back to the grind
pooky is still about where I last had him, he's towny pretty consistently but I'm kinda just wary because he's swindled me a good few times in the past, and none of his posting rises up as pure town posting like his vibe check thing from Radio Buzz. But it's enough to not go there.

In a way it feels like Dunnstral has been playing a different game than the rest of us, his focus and thought process seems so out of line with what's going on. While that's probably scum-indicating, I also feel like it's something I again want to put up for discussion rather than acting on now.

I feel like Toog’s contributions up to now feel very hit-or-miss. The middle of his ISO kinda feels the worst. I’m not sure how much I think it needs litigating, hrrrrm. I’ll skip a final determination for now.

Galron’s posting looks pretty not-okay looking at it with fresh eyes. I feel like from the beginning he was hoping to pocket me. I’ve had talks with a friend from this site that have led me to realize that it’s honestly very rare to see scum all against me. When I’m in the hot seat, it seems more often scum will take a broad set of stances on me. His play around my slot just feels very engineered to make a good impression on me overall.

So my list of names atp is down to (Cephrir, Dwlee, peta, Galron), with Toog as a maybe.

Deciding to do ISOs on the non-Galron shot options as well
I really feel like Cephrir’s push on me doesn’t feel right. It feels like he’s stuck in a spot of

having

to push me, which kinda builds on the idea that scum were stancing up around me in different planned-out ways.

On second thought I actually don’t want to shoot peta here because I feel like there’s things I want to discuss with him. I feel like my bad reaction to being questioned by him and Prism is partly caused by my plurality situation that I’ve mentioned before in other places (which I still need to work on my big document about).
When my parents are grilling me for answers I either don’t want to give or straight-up don’t have, one of my alters starts to come out, one that is currently known as Z (it has an actual name, as do most of the others, but until I find a name for the last one I need it for, that being M, I’m not going to use the full names in public content until the whole system is covered). Z is on record as not really having much access to my memories, and is prone to irritability under pressure. My thought process going fuzzy and me refusing to engage are clear indication that Z was at the wheel att. While on this subject, when I lashed out at Prism the last time, that was a different alter, known as D. D sometimes feels combined with M but is notably more aggressive while M is assertive.
I’m not trying to dodge any connection to my actions, Z and D are part of me and so I wrote those posts. But I feel like given how my interactions with peta have basically been off from what I think they should from the beginning, I want to try to change my approach, be more sympathetic towards the people I’ve been short with in the past. Obviously I can’t do anything wrt Prism now but I can give peta a fair shake.

Not much to say about Dwlee’s ISO, still think the dumbtelling was bad, still not a fan of how he feels bent against my view of the game. The big thing on my mind wrt the second thing is he and Saber have felt very similar in that regard, and for a couple of reasons I think that makes Dwlee/Saber likely not S/S.

After having given myself a framework, Toog!scum feels more within the realm of possibility. His play feels at least a little in line with what I’m expecting scum to have done here.

Gonna watch the anniversary screening of Evil Dead soon. Once I finish with that, I think it’s time to give someone the boot.

Also, had the thought that things might get switched over after my shot where I don’t get to post during the vote to execute or spare me. So I’m glad I’ve already decided to put down just about everything I’m thinking if that ends up being the case.

I reread the post describing the event and this isn’t the case, thank goodness.

I think I have my choice. The player I have in mind to execute seems like scum on a number of metrics, and I think should be somewhat well-received.
It’s Galron. I feel like the people who feel scummy based on positioning are probably sketchier than those that I just dislike how they’ve interfaced with my reads. And out of those who’ve seemed to have scummy positioning, Galron just keeps cropping up as the one that feels the most errant. From the word go it seems he wanted to act like he was in my corner, most likely because he’d seen how ferocious I’d been in Radio Buzz and in 2234. And since he was the other wagon that took off yesterday, I think it’s best we nix him here.
VOTE: Galron
I see no reason to put this off any further.

If Gamma is scum, then the only teammate he protected was Skitter, and he did so without needing to justify why.

However, Saber, Dunn, and Galron were all in his PoE. That's an alarming 3 out of 4 scum if Galron is scum here.

It's also notable to look at Gamma's progression. I feel like his reasons for shooting Dunn/Galron outweighed Dwlee/Toog in terms of what was likelier sxunplay here. Not to say that Galron is scum, but I I saying that if Galrob is scum, the scumteam was privy to a very high possibility to having one of their own shot and couldn't even clearly tell who by Gamma's posting alone.

So a sabotage makes sense for Gamma-town if you believe Galron could've been scum.

And the only reason I could consider Gamma-scum being possible here is if the team just wanted to distance from Gamma.... because they used up a sabotage when a towny was most likely getting shot.

[Taly]

And if you believe that the scumteam didn't have the time to adjust their sabotage to protecting a teammate?

Then why did scum sabotage to begin with?

[Taly]

It could be because Pooky was the biggest town threat, and I think that's the best theory.

But of Gamma-scum is just thestre, why have Pooky in the PoE if Gamma knew he was going to die and flip town?

I just can't answer a Gamma-scum POV as easily as town-Gamma off this information.

[Taly]

To pressure Gemerald is scum is such a mindfuck because I've played with him on/off for years and I don't think he can fake his own thoughts process as scum.

IE, I don't think Gamma can pretend to be uninformed to this level of play or most players given how much he began this game with Tv?'ing Prism

[Taly]

To presume*

[Ydrasse]

did he... choose to 1v1 prism tho

[Taly]

He didn't but do you think Gamma will have a perspective difference in how he approaches Prism that is AI?

I think so, and while I can't verbalize it so well, I don't think that spat determined Gamma's readslist or progression I the game whereas I feel like he would show a bigger agenda as scum.

Why doesn't Gamma target Gypyx over such a reversal in thoughts between the two players and predecessor?

Scum don't want to admit to a fallacious argument against any entity that challenges them.

[Ydrasse]

i think the fighting had more to do with gamma and prism as individuals than it did than gamma and prism/gypyx as slots

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

[Taly]

i think the fighting had more to do with gamma and prism as individuals than it did than gamma and prism/gypyx as slots

Exactly

That's why I lean it being a TvT more than not

[Ydrasse]

eh

i don't think that it's tvt because of that honestly, it's separate to their alignments in game, and it did stem (?) from prism actually calling out gamma after having caught gamma a few times so

not gleaning alignment stuff from that

[Ydrasse]

eh

i don't think that it's tvt because of that honestly, it's separate to their alignments in game, and it did stem (?) from prism actually calling out gamma after having caught gamma a few times so

not gleaning alignment stuff from that

[Taly]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

I mean, why does Gamma scum get pissy when hr fails to defend Infinity? An Infinity townflips vindicates him. So why doesn't he take advantage if he were scum as opposed to just voicing frustration?

Why does he 1v1 with Dwlee if Dwlee is town that could die in the crossing and shade him?

[Ydrasse]

also i'm being a little nonchalant about this game atp because it's like

you are probably going to die, i thin,k, which makes me sad bcause i think we're both town but i feel that's how it ends

and then it's in one of the two gammas and assuming this game doesn't default to "play normal mafia" and there's some gimmick where we can have another chance then i'm at peace with killing both gammas and ending the game

[petapan]

I rlly hope this last event is just standard nightless because I think peta has good points but it’s just not me here, I just had a really shit game in the end.

i mean, it's interesting you say i have good points, because earlier you said your play in the perfect balance event should make you obvious town, i believe. so i dunno what changed


but regardless, it is not about who has played a good game or a bad game - qualitatively, i wouldn't even say you have played a bad game - you were right on dunn early, right on infinity when most of the blue room was terribly wrong, and you made the call to send cakez as the last one across, leaving two of the scum behind. sure, you waffled on the read after the crossing, but so did all of us.

the issue is not good or bad but whose play makes sense from a scum perspective. and that is where i am having trouble with you.

ydrasse for instance, has not been particularly accurate this game (no slight intended). but i can still find reasons for her being town that i believe are good. i think there are parts of her play that make more sense coming from an uninformed perspective. i have trouble saying the same for you, because there are so many points where your play around flipped scum players is odd.

of course, town can have good reads that they back off on. town can have unseen progressions. my revelation on dunnstral was pretty abrupt. but on the whole it feels like there's so many points where you've had scum in youer PoE but were hesitant to actually push them, and that your reads have shifted more in accordance with the thread. and i have a hard time seeing that coming from a town perspective.

i could be wrong, of course. maybe this is a next-level troll by taly. then i'll look foolish shortly, but i'm okay with that. but i have reasons to doubt there, i can look at stuff taly did and see it coming from scum but can also see it coming from town. and so i have to look at contingencies

[Ydrasse]

Eh I tried to be impartial as I want to not confbias

But Gamma's consistent vex with about half of the plist st any given event phase in this reads as town struggling to have control.

I feel like scum would be better suited to roll with the punches if they ended Event 1 being as townread as Gamma had been.

I mean, why does Gamma scum get pissy when hr fails to defend Infinity? An Infinity townflips vindicates him. So why doesn't he take advantage if he were scum as opposed to just voicing frustration?

Why does he 1v1 with Dwlee if Dwlee is town that could die in the crossing and shade him?

1) why does any scum whiteknight for town? it's for the credit of it all and infinity is a very reasonable person that gamma would go to bat for so it makes sense, and i don't think scum was ever... really in danger of being nommed from our pt, so.

2) and i mean, he's getting called out for his behavior now but it's... to kill a townie, weaken their position, etc? scum inevitably have to fight town in games, and town inevitably has to die... and being shaded versus killing a townie is a worthwhile trade

[Taly]

eh

i don't think that it's tvt because of that honestly, it's separate to their alignments in game, and it did stem (?) from prism actually calling out gamma after having caught gamma a few times so

not gleaning alignment stuff from that

Then what do you think about Gamma/Galron Event 1 gamestate in retrospect?

Because you were the first person that told me in Event 2 that you trusted town's judgment enough that Gamma/Galron were actually TvS and I foolishly overlooked your potential logic for why.

So if anything is AI for Gamma here specifically, I want to hear.

[Ydrasse]

my intelligence this game is low, but my heart? massive. truly the emotional carry in these trying times

[Gamma Emerald]

I did kinda being up my play in the crossing event when mentioning the things I felt I’d done that didn’t really track as scum-motivated. Also I’m kinda at a REALLY low low rn for my mood

[Taly]

i could be wrong, of course. maybe this is a next-level troll by taly. then i'll look foolish shortly, but i'm okay with that. but i have reasons to doubt there, i can look at stuff taly did and see it coming from scum but can also see it coming from town. and so i have to look at contingencies

For what it's worth, I won't ever get as upset over a game as last page. I know that's probably just more WIFOM right now, but I genuinely would not troll you here if I knew I was rightfully caught.

[Ydrasse]

eh

i don't think that it's tvt because of that honestly, it's separate to their alignments in game, and it did stem (?) from prism actually calling out gamma after having caught gamma a few times so

not gleaning alignment stuff from that

Then what do you think about Gamma/Galron Event 1 gamestate in retrospect?

Because you were the first person that told me in Event 2 that you trusted town's judgment enough that Gamma/Galron were actually TvS and I foolishly overlooked your potential logic for why.

So if anything is AI for Gamma here specifically, I want to hear.

i mean, right before the heaven/hell pts i was pointing out how weird things were regarding gamma emerald so i err towards that being scum, it's harder to call gamma "hey guy skitter posted 17 times to derail this" gooey scum frankly but being saved is a big ! moment. for a long while i wanted to kill that slot but now it feels like... idk. is the accuracy of notcing something like that that no one else did just good play or tmi or what have you?

i think tho that the e1 event makes gamma look a little worse.