Manatee's Pokemon Large Theme | Game Over

[mastina]

So I was thinking about the game last night (by which I mean, I literally was brainstorming this game in my sleep and it continued into this morning; I literally woke up this morning due to a potential breakthrough) and while I second-guessed a lot of my thoughts. "Pooky has to be clear", "Milo might be clear", sometimes the opposites, etc.

But ultimately, while I continue to have second-guessing going on, it led me to overall this:
VOTE: DKKoba

From play-wise it's a mess but mechanically-speaking, the thought I had was that Pooky basically can't be scum mechanically.

Now, granted!

What I really would like is if we had a Pokemon flavor expert around--the scum have fakeclaims. Which means that there are scum pokemon that are, flavor-wise, scumclaims and cannot be truthfully claimed. In other words, the pokemon are definitely scum pokemon.

...But the inverse should be true as well. If there are pokemon that are definitely 100% scum pokemon, then it figures that there are pokemon that are definitely 100% town pokemon. And while scum have safeclaims so it's hard to tell if a claimed pokemon is real, in the case of Pooky, there really is only one pokemon he realistically could be.

I should probably double-check any/all scum's isos to see how many of them claimed and what they claimed to see how closely their fakeclaims match their real role, but I'm fairly certain that Pooky, mechanically, is basically a mason here.

In terms of certainty, I'd say ~75% here is what I mean by "fairly certain". It's not a surefire thing, because I've not done the research to confirm it. But if it is, then that'd narrow the pool down to Milobird and DKKoba.

Milobird's role is possible to be scum or a scum fakeclaim, especially if the mod error was "you're not multitasking so you shouldn't have gotten a result while killing", but the nature of the mod error makes it slightly more likely to be town in my opinion. It's not as surefire of a thing, but there was more that tipped me in the scales here; small inconsistencies in DKKoba's claim.

Now, granted. Said inconsistencies are really really small, probably nitpicking, and I can think of reasonable justifications for them. But I've been giving those justifications for them without giving any thought to the other explanation (that the inconsistencies are due to the claim not being from town).

DKKoba allegedly thought that they stopped the scum kill N3 from the scum targeting them N2--but how would DKKoba have thought that? DKKoba wasn't targeted by the scum kill, and even if they were, they'd have died from the scum nightkill on N2 right then and there.
Keep in mind also that scum are not multitasking by default--so what scum would target DKKoba N2 and then forgo their night action N3 to do a nightkill? I can't really think of any aside from knowing one it cannot be; a scum rolecop would know not to make the attempt.

Then there's the decision to self-target N2 anyway. At the time of N2, we had Firebringer claimed as an investigative, SirCakez as a claimed innocent, and Dwlee as basically a hard-claimed protective role (now granted, Dwlee was scum, but if DKKoba was town, they wouldn't have known DKKoba was scum).

Not wanting to roleblock a protective role is maybe excusable, but ironically, not protecting Dwlee actually feels like scum knowledge. (Granted, this is perhaps biased by my thought process. *I* protected the claimed protective role for basically the reason I am outlining; I didn't want to double-up on protecting a slot.) Why the self-target when DKKoba already discarded their self-protect in order to evolve in the first place? If DKKoba wanted to eat up scum night actions, they didn't need to evolve and do so with their new role.

The other inconsistency has to do with their view on protecting players. Yesterday, they said they couldn't stop kills anymore, but there was in fact a way for that to happen. Today, they said they CAN, but while it's theoretically possible, it'd require the scum to basically gamethrow. Per DKKoba's claim of being unable to target the same player twice in a row, and per DKKoba's last protection having been SirCakez, SirCakez is wide open for the scum. (I didn't want to say this while not wanting to eliminate DKKoba because obviously, spelling out the route scum take to get the best nightkills isn't a good idea because if the scum didn't figure it out, they could still be caught by it.)

The route for us getting another killstop was actually the scum killing SirCakez last night, as that'd mean DKKoba could protect either Malakittens or MathBlade tonight, but that didn't happen. The scum took the route that would guarantee the kill could succeed. Now, that doesn't hard-implicate DKKoba as it could be scum respecting the chance for a stopped kill, but...

Overall I think this is the correct move.

There IS an asterisks to this, obviously. Which I intend to investigate. (That being, interactions. Such as with Dwlee actually.)

So I'm not going to push through a DKKoba elimination yet.
But I'll move my vote there.

[mastina]

Everyone in the PoE please tell me who you’d elim if your top choice is wrong
Something like first I would elim X but if they’re town I would elim Y

24 hours ago, it was Milobird->Pooky.
Now it's DKKoba->Milobird.

Although I do admit I am second-guessing my logic here again.

I do really need to do the flavor-research as well as the interaction research I want to.

[mastina]

My flavor is cotton guard if that matters, I'm swablu

Altaria / チルタリス / Tyltalis

COTTON GUARD:

The user protects by wrapping a body in soft cotton
◓ Once at night, you may target another player with your cotton, disallowing any non- actions from affecting that player

PERISH SONG:

Both user and foe faint in 3 turns.
◓ Once, during any phase you may sing to another player, you and that player will both faint three day/night phases later.

Not sure if this is proof of scum having fakeclaims because Dwlee realclaimed the move and apparently Altaria is an evolved Swablu.

However,

I'm Girafarig. My power is Psybeam.

Sableye / ヤミラミ / Yamirami

MEAN LOOK:

The user pins the target with a dark, arresting look.
◓ Twice, at night you may look at another player, scaring them, and receiving an exact copy of their current Rolecard.

CONFUSE RAY:

The target is exposed to a sinister ray that triggers confusion.
◓ Twice at night, you may confuse another player.
◓ The start of the night following your action, your target will be informed they were confused, and if they have an action that targets other players they must submit two targets that will be randomly decided on.
◓ Your target will not be informed which player they targetted.

CALM MIND:

The user quietly focuses its mind and calms its spirit.
◓ Your calm mind means that investigative roles will interact with you as if you were a member of the

Town

...But this seems reasonable proof that scum do in fact have fakeclaims.

Still though. While Pooky

could

be any pokemon with the move Wonder Room from the list here, there's not the clear flavor link between them as there is between Solrock and Lunatone.

It's hard for me to really figure out a reliable source of flavor for the team rocket pokemon tho--I'm kinda at a loss for what to search for, here, in terms of "this is a team rocket pokemon" vs. "this is not a team rocket pokemon".

[MathBlade]

Whelp Mastina’s town and my VCA is flawed somewhere.

Scum Mastina doesn’t let a typo as big as that go through.

[MathBlade]

So it’s Koba or Milo gg?

Titus and Cakez thoughts?

[DkKoba]

when math is 0/2

[DkKoba]

So I was thinking about the game last night (by which I mean, I literally was brainstorming this game in my sleep and it continued into this morning; I literally woke up this morning due to a potential breakthrough) and while I second-guessed a lot of my thoughts. "Pooky has to be clear", "Milo might be clear", sometimes the opposites, etc.

But ultimately, while I continue to have second-guessing going on, it led me to overall this:
VOTE: DKKoba

From play-wise it's a mess but mechanically-speaking, the thought I had was that Pooky basically can't be scum mechanically.

Now, granted!

What I really would like is if we had a Pokemon flavor expert around--the scum have fakeclaims. Which means that there are scum pokemon that are, flavor-wise, scumclaims and cannot be truthfully claimed. In other words, the pokemon are definitely scum pokemon.

...But the inverse should be true as well. If there are pokemon that are definitely 100% scum pokemon, then it figures that there are pokemon that are definitely 100% town pokemon. And while scum have safeclaims so it's hard to tell if a claimed pokemon is real, in the case of Pooky, there really is only one pokemon he realistically could be.

I should probably double-check any/all scum's isos to see how many of them claimed and what they claimed to see how closely their fakeclaims match their real role, but I'm fairly certain that Pooky, mechanically, is basically a mason here.

In terms of certainty, I'd say ~75% here is what I mean by "fairly certain". It's not a surefire thing, because I've not done the research to confirm it. But if it is, then that'd narrow the pool down to Milobird and DKKoba.

Milobird's role is possible to be scum or a scum fakeclaim, especially if the mod error was "you're not multitasking so you shouldn't have gotten a result while killing", but the nature of the mod error makes it slightly more likely to be town in my opinion. It's not as surefire of a thing, but there was more that tipped me in the scales here; small inconsistencies in DKKoba's claim.

Now, granted. Said inconsistencies are really really small, probably nitpicking, and I can think of reasonable justifications for them. But I've been giving those justifications for them without giving any thought to the other explanation (that the inconsistencies are due to the claim not being from town).

DKKoba allegedly thought that they stopped the scum kill N3 from the scum targeting them N2--but how would DKKoba have thought that? DKKoba wasn't targeted by the scum kill, and even if they were, they'd have died from the scum nightkill on N2 right then and there.
Keep in mind also that scum are not multitasking by default--so what scum would target DKKoba N2 and then forgo their night action N3 to do a nightkill? I can't really think of any aside from knowing one it cannot be; a scum rolecop would know not to make the attempt.

Then there's the decision to self-target N2 anyway. At the time of N2, we had Firebringer claimed as an investigative, SirCakez as a claimed innocent, and Dwlee as basically a hard-claimed protective role (now granted, Dwlee was scum, but if DKKoba was town, they wouldn't have known DKKoba was scum).

Not wanting to roleblock a protective role is maybe excusable, but ironically, not protecting Dwlee actually feels like scum knowledge. (Granted, this is perhaps biased by my thought process. *I* protected the claimed protective role for basically the reason I am outlining; I didn't want to double-up on protecting a slot.) Why the self-target when DKKoba already discarded their self-protect in order to evolve in the first place? If DKKoba wanted to eat up scum night actions, they didn't need to evolve and do so with their new role.

The other inconsistency has to do with their view on protecting players. Yesterday, they said they couldn't stop kills anymore, but there was in fact a way for that to happen. Today, they said they CAN, but while it's theoretically possible, it'd require the scum to basically gamethrow. Per DKKoba's claim of being unable to target the same player twice in a row, and per DKKoba's last protection having been SirCakez, SirCakez is wide open for the scum. (I didn't want to say this while not wanting to eliminate DKKoba because obviously, spelling out the route scum take to get the best nightkills isn't a good idea because if the scum didn't figure it out, they could still be caught by it.)

The route for us getting another killstop was actually the scum killing SirCakez last night, as that'd mean DKKoba could protect either Malakittens or MathBlade tonight, but that didn't happen. The scum took the route that would guarantee the kill could succeed. Now, that doesn't hard-implicate DKKoba as it could be scum respecting the chance for a stopped kill, but...

Overall I think this is the correct move.

There IS an asterisks to this, obviously. Which I intend to investigate. (That being, interactions. Such as with Dwlee actually.)

So I'm not going to push through a DKKoba elimination yet.
But I'll move my vote there.

why dont you ask me the answers to the questions you have here towards me huh?

[DkKoba]

now i fully understand why chow self voted tbh

[DkKoba]

mastina fucking promise me you dont fucking vote milo

i swear to fucking god


vote pooky


i dont RFUCKING give a fuck if you think milo is scum


vote fucking pooky


cakez maths and mastina's case for pooky being town all suck ass


sorry

it has to be said

"hurr durr pooky chose to shoot scum"

ok and what fucking else did he do


nothing


but happily sheep every wagon


Firebringer thought he was scum tho

guess what happened to firebringer


died next night


i said i wasnt going on firebringer btw

very explicitly


so if you wanna blame me f u

[DkKoba]

i thought i stopped scum kill because i thought scum roleblocked me



if any of you have any ounce of respect you'd honor my fucking milo townread.

[DkKoba]

also yes i can fucking stop a scum kill mastina


maybe read my fucking role claim better

you didnt read it correctly


which also corroborates the fact you didnt read anything i said correctly so lmfao

[DkKoba]

im so done with people.

[DkKoba]

why do i even giving a fuck in games when this is what happens half the time lmfao

and any poinst that say im town are all wifom




wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

koba never town koba always wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

always wifom everyone look!! koba wifom!!! koba always does stupid move as scum because koba always wifom!! cant townread koba thats too easy gotta say wifom lolzzzz


none of u should be allowed to use that word after this game btw.

[DkKoba]

i want a colective promise to fucking vote pooky next day phase


yall cant even fucking towncase him without pointing to the vig shot or like some stupid flavor argument

those are the *only* 2 points

[DkKoba]

zomg koba keeps alive all the poeple that scumread them xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD xDDDDDDDDDDDD XXDDDDDDXDXDXDXDXDXDD XDSXDXDXD

[DkKoba]

@mod v/la weekend

i need a break.

if im limmed while im gone

fucking vote pooky

@cakez that is addressed to you, #1 pooky defender who is so deep in pooky's pocket, it echos when you yell into it.

[DkKoba]

all pooky literally has said about me this whole fucking dayphase is "zomg koba scum haha koba has to be scum xDD"

and yall are like *nodding* and not even thinking about "what if pooky is scum here"

and its fucking embarassing like am i the only player here who reevals based on what people say in lategame instead of locking myself in like a bot?

[DkKoba]

btw mastina u can join the hall of fame of people who read into my night action choice that is claimed and think it is a scumclaim club just because u "disagree": https://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewt ... ead#unread

here's an ice game

ISO michelle and tutuu and watch how they throw the ridiculous reasoning around my night actions at me because i said "lol i targeted a 3p read from the clear because i was too busy to reread"

( i had actually ended up targeting scum)

[DkKoba]

these are the types of reads that mastina/cakez/math are making against me btw

[DkKoba]

mostly aimed at mastina bc it matches the way they are confident in their scumcase for shit that isnt even scummy

[DkKoba]

(yeah i was town in that screenshot)

[DkKoba]

am i e-1 i dont want to play in this game and fight anymore i just want to be sheeped on pooky please


im done as fuck

actually fuck it

VOTE: DkKoba

i dont care.

[DkKoba]

if you guys disrespect my legacy you have only yourselves to blame for losing to an obvious fucking trolling scum who did 1 thing and is being easily townread off that.


milo and mastina have put in massive work and put in a lot of effort into how theyre reading the game

im not in the mood to argue anymore with people who think they know better about how i play and how pooky plays when clearly they are proven to not even be fully up to date with what has gone on this game.

[DkKoba]

why do i even giving a fuck in games when this is what happens half the time lmfao

and any poinst that say im town are all wifom




wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

koba never town koba always wifom

wifom

wifom

wifom

always wifom everyone look!! koba wifom!!! koba always does stupid move as scum because koba always wifom!! cant townread koba thats too easy gotta say wifom lolzzzz


none of u should be allowed to use that word after this game btw.

post of the game btw (::

[DkKoba]

rofl

its just koba right

VOTE: koba

big respect to the WIM

its just koba lol

ok good talk

lol what

i asked him if he wanted to die in the scum chat and he was like yea sure

its just koba lol

your read on me is fake af lol

any1 can pull up my iso and see nothing has changed

i stopped trying cuz i thought the game was ovee

u seem to think this means im scum today, but you never mentioned it on d5-7

its not milobird

bell way out of scum range

koba is the last possible baddie

r u going to claim i was jailkept from killing on n3 rofl

if youre clear and youre alive at this point

you were brought here on purpose

just fucking be humble and admit that is a possibility instead of being like HAHA WE ARE MURDERING ALL SCUM WE ARE IMMACULATE AHAHAHA

because no

youre fucking here bc ur reads were worse than the other clears or ur hard pocketed by scum

cakez is alive this whole time because of pooky

and its blatant.


stop assuming wifom or framing

just fucking follow normal NKA

it fucking works

u have like 1 in like 20 games where scum will kill to frame with NKA

like

fuck ?

the game is already fucked if we have clears who genuinely believe i leave them alive for 3 nights straight while they have a hardon for my elim.

seriously.

learn from this game thanks

if i see this same mistake from yall in the future im just gonna not play anymore honestly im sick of it.