Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[VP Baltar]

i think the other 2 are worse than dunn

This isn't really an answer though. How are they worse? or rather, what is good about Dunn?

[Bingle]

Can we not speedlim b4 we get a replacement pls

Yeah. If we're gonna eliminate someone before they have a chance to post, it should be enchant so that Penguin can endgame me before I get back to the thread again.

Explode: Penguin

[Bingle]

can i get a simple explanation of why gamma is scum that's more than "not solvey" because i am not in the mood to be rereading a full iso to be trying to figure that out

Mountain out of molehills tell from A50. Gamma rebutted, but I don't really buy the explanation of "I thought that VP complaining about the postrate was actually a big deal" even if it had been what he was doing and more importantly I don't think Gamma thinks that as town.

WRT to the not solving, the couple of things that stand out to me are his jump at Ico's readslist for having people who were probably not aligned in his D1 PoE after it had already been brought up and defended against as a way to dogpile on Ico while the wagon was popular and the thing that literally just happened where he called you town and then shaded you for not putting in enough effort.

Overall, he hasn't really seemed interested in finding scum, just with going with the flow. Also, he spewed himself not PR and so if the options are close I greatly prefer that.

[Fun and Games]

i think the other 2 are worse than dunn

This isn't really an answer though. How are they worse? or rather, what is good about Dunn?

Dunn has done like literally nada as both mafia and town before.

the meta comparison with Gamma is more striking in that I can usually see what Gamma is trying to do.

Ico was actively more scummy when he was here.


~Pooks

[Bingle]

I dont know how to explain it further, the way he worded it felt very townie to me

I don't think you're struggling to explain it. I understand why you might think the wording was towny and if that is the explanation that's fine. The question I have is why when I asked what you thought was a towny recall of things you backtracked into a very different reason to townread him. It makes me think the original reason you gave for townreading him was bullshit, which is even worse coming from a hydra who should be talking about reads internally than from a normal player.

[Bingle]

i'm p sure that gamma is viable today

Me too!

[Fun and Games]

I think you greatly overestimate how much time we spend discussing reads outside of the people we want to kill

[Fun and Games]

probably my fault cuz i'm a lazy bear lol

[Fun and Games]

can i get a simple explanation of why gamma is scum that's more than "not solvey" because i am not in the mood to be rereading a full iso to be trying to figure that out

it's basically 'not solve-y' but a few points/nuances within that include:
- basically not scumhunting
- having little content and resorting to ate when he got wagoned
- his readslist/poe is very simplistic and i'm not sure he actually thought about it very much (you're on the same tier as his scumreads, voting darby/ico while saying he kinda liked him, and so on)

+ i think his slot is partner-y with ico's slo

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

i think the other 2 are worse than dunn

This isn't really an answer though. How are they worse? or rather, what is good about Dunn?

as much as i hate to admit it, i have seen town-dunn behave like this before

so he's being like ~bad~ but i'm not sure how much of it is actually scum-indicative for him

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I dont know how to explain it further, the way he worded it felt very townie to me

I don't think you're struggling to explain it. I understand why you might think the wording was towny and if that is the explanation that's fine. The question I have is why when I asked what you thought was a towny recall of things you backtracked into a very different reason to townread him. It makes me think the original reason you gave for townreading him was bullshit, which is even worse coming from a hydra who should be talking about reads internally than from a normal player.

a) we're not talking about reads all that much
b) the way it was worded made me think that, it's not a 'very different reason' for me. i don't know how else to explain 'those words' made me have 'that thought'

~ skitter

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm p sure that gamma is viable today

Me too!

[Gamma Emerald]

Fun & Games

, is there any actual meat to your SR on me besides “not being solvy”?

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay it’s literally a couple posts down lol

[Gamma Emerald]

can i get a simple explanation of why gamma is scum that's more than "not solvey" because i am not in the mood to be rereading a full iso to be trying to figure that out

it's basically 'not solve-y' but a few points/nuances within that include:
- basically not scumhunting
- having little content and resorting to ate when he got wagoned
- his readslist/poe is very simplistic and i'm not sure he actually thought about it very much (you're on the same tier as his scumreads, voting darby/ico while saying he kinda liked him, and so on)

+ i think his slot is partner-y with ico's slo

~ skitter

-I think you might regret this line in a minute.
-how is that even scummy
-uhhh Datisi is kinda sus for me rn? And me not keeping track of where I’m voting is nowhere near a novel event, and also nowhere near a scumtell for me

[Fun and Games]

I think I’ll be more proactive once I can work from a flip

I guess I'm just used to seeing more proactive solving from town!you in every completed game I've played with you in my recent memory and here you're just using a rando excuse that I remember using as scum once upon a time.

this one just ended:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88043


also examples:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87498
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=87397
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=87412

I kind of have already said this many times dude.

[Fun and Games]

You feel very reactive to what's going on around you rather than actually proactively trying to push the game towards your viewpoint.

[Gamma Emerald]

Well up until now my basis in this game has felt very weak so I didn’t feel like trying to press based on that was very honest.

[Gamma Emerald]

i'm not sure that meme of a game is the perfect example to be drawing these conclusions from

but i am personally more interested in how you were thinking that enchant is more likely to receive pressure as town, while they were being pressured by two people you put into your townblock

Think of how long it took to actually get the wagon on enchant to be a thing in HoS_S, that’s what I’m basing this on, him getting wagoned early is a towntell and despite it not going very far I saw seed for it starting to happen

I would've liked to see how much further it went

calling it this early makes it feel a lot less AI.

Something about the way this was said bothers me. Reads a bit like proper play scolding.

[Gamma Emerald]

What what do you think I hope to get out of “white knighting” enchant, skitter?

No idea, that's just the vibe i get

~ skitter

Also dislike this.

[Gamma Emerald]

Besides those posts your opinion on me isn’t rlly fleshed out early on >:/
I’m kinda suspicious of your slot’s approach to me, if it wasn’t clear already

[Fun and Games]

-how is that even scummy
-uhhh Datisi is kinda sus for me rn? And me not keeping track of where I’m voting is nowhere near a novel event, and also nowhere near a scumtell for me

- not such a townie way to react to a wagon on you + getting wagoned didn't motivate you to actaully do anything this game. it looks like you ate'd, got the wagon to divert, and continued to do absolutely nothing for another week
- voting someone you're claiming you kinda townread belies a dissonance between how you're actually viewing the game and what you're doing in it, and makes me think your reads aren't really real (cuz if they were, i imagine you'd be cognizant of the fact that you changed reads on the person you're voting, and thus change your vote as well)

- we also dislike your baltar vote and how you were relying on your 'annoyance' of him to keep your vote there, thus allowing you to keep the same vote for 20 pages and not do anything and not have to interact with anybody else or push anything

also r.e. your complaint that my 'opinion on you isn't really fleshed out early on' - you're right, it wasn't. why is that important and/or scummy? i didn't develop a firm scumread on you until much after the posts you're quoting

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

why is dats sus for you rn

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Well up until now my basis in this game has felt very weak so I didn’t feel like trying to press based on that was very honest.

i mean so we should just ... acknowledge that you're not doing anything and not push you for it? what are you expecting here ...

[Gamma Emerald]

I find it a bit outlandish you think I’d see I was doing poorly as scum and decide to go “yeah I don’t feel a need to fix this”,

especially

given you think my partners are also slots that have pretty bad positioning in this game? The only time I’d really opt for complacency as scum currently is if I feel like doing nothing is not going to end up resulting in loss of ability to steer the game in my team’s favor down the line.