Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.06

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-11-28 00:30:00).

elimination

MegAzumarill [3]:

Cape90, Greeting, Meuh

ProHawk [2]:

Prism, MegAzumarill

Greeting [1]:

ProHawk

marcistar [1]:

StrangeMatter

not voting [2]:

AsuStuckey, marcistar

mod notes

~ one two seven three

flavour

[Greeting]

UNVOTE: MegAzumarill - since I see a wagon forming on them and they're not my choice of wagon right now. But this might change once I read up on what happened since.

Now, to end this experiment of mine.

I've found

marcistar

quite scummy from the very beginning. I disliked almost all of their posts. This is meta, but surprisingly it hasn't failed me yet. Players with a certain posting style from all my previous games (the ones which I can talk about are N2078 and N2081) all turned out to be scum. All three of them. The ones which I can talk about are GrandpaMo in N2078 and Not_Mafia in N2081. They all have the same way in which they formulate thoughts - in a liberal way, without using capital letters etc. You know what I mean. I interpret this as a loose approach to the game, signifying distancing and a relaxed attitude. All that is there for a reason - and the reason is that they want to avoid being seen as stressed, because being scum and having to lie all the time is quite stressful. Check it out yourself and compare.

Obviously, this is not enough for evidence, so I decided to use the situation at the time (virtually nothing was going on) to test to which degree

marcistar

is serious about getting

MegAzumarill

voted out. It was their idea, they formulated it in 49. While I didn't see many valid reasons to vote out

MegAzumarill

at the time, I decided to try something out. I said yes to an obviously flimsy wagon, about which I even openly said that I don't think is very scummy. I wanted to test and see how would

marcistar

behave in this situation.

Their reactions came off as vague and and unwilling to commit to the wagon. Let me just say that it was

marcistar

who suggested this wagon in the first place and now they're chickening out. Which means that they know the wagon is flimsy and will most likely end up with voting out a townie.

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

Let's say I

do

want you to jump on his wagon. What do you say to that?

ill vote it when i wanna unless if u have a good reason
i was og gonna soon after i suggested it and seeing what you thought, but then i got busy and now its not my fave cup of tea.

So basically

marcistar

plants the seed and then avoids responsibility for it.

Unfortunately, I feel like what

Prism

said in 133 very accurately describes what happened. The lack of transparency made other players suspicious of my intentions (even though I feel like I was as transparent as I could in that situation ) which resulted in me being put on E-2. The fact that I was being voted out for flimsy reasons made me want to explain myself more, which unintentionally resulted in me revealing more than I wanted to. Now, I think this could have influenced

marcistar

's play who understood that

MegAzumarill

's wagon (at least I can speak for myself - not

Cape90

nor anyone else who's on that wagon) is not about

MegAzumarill

at all, but about her. Also, in the meantime the game took off, drifted away, leaving my original idea redundant and irrelevant. Plus, the things that happened in-between altered my perception of other players, including

MegAzumarill

.

Because of all that, the experiment did not bring very definite conclusions, but showed me that either

marcistar

is a newbie who just wants to do their best, or a smart scum who knows what's going on around them and tries to avoid incriminating themselves. Their post count pushes me towards the latter.

There are also other things that are a scumread for

marcistar

. For instance, there are a lot of questions asked with no follow-up whatsoever. Posts 42, 47 (question to me) or 89 come to mind. Sure, they've asked people to expand on some issues but they did nothing with the responses. It's a way of getting towncred - seeming like they're trying to get reads, while in fact doing it just for the show.

For reasons stated above, I think I'll VOTE: marcistar.

[Meuh]

Here's a compilation of my readslist posts then, if that's relevant, you can check them out! They all use the same format, with slight alterations (mostly to add more options over time since I wanted more specific ways to signal my read on a player)

2054 (I was VT)

First readslist - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12587452
Second readslist - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12591895

2058 (also VT)

Only readslist - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12644984

2061 (still VT)

Did not make any readslist, but I did make some big posts, here are 2 that I spent a lot of time on, if you're looking for more recent and/or more post-by-post content you can look here
Big post on iN3krO - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12716448
Big post on Marci - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12722846

2063 (mafia goon)

First readslist - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12761181
Second readslist - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12763865

[Meuh]

Your post links don't work, Greeting

[Greeting]

Your post links don't work, Greeting

That's weird. Let me post this again.

[Greeting]

I think I might have messed something up with the formatting. I removed the post numbers from the post link tags and it should be working now.

Spoiler: Here's the post again, with working links.

UNVOTE: MegAzumarill - since I see a wagon forming on them and they're not my choice of wagon right now. But this might change once I read up on what happened since.

Now, to end this experiment of mine.

I've found

marcistar

quite scummy from the very beginning. I disliked almost all of their posts. This is meta, but surprisingly it hasn't failed me yet. Players with a certain posting style from all my previous games (the ones which I can talk about are N2078 and N2081) all turned out to be scum. All three of them. The ones which I can talk about are GrandpaMo in N2078 and Not_Mafia in N2081. They all have the same way in which they formulate thoughts - in a liberal way, without using capital letters etc. You know what I mean. I interpret this as a loose approach to the game, signifying distancing and a relaxed attitude. All that is there for a reason - and the reason is that they want to avoid being seen as stressed, because being scum and having to lie all the time is quite stressful. Check it out yourself and compare.

Obviously, this is not enough for evidence, so I decided to use the situation at the time (virtually nothing was going on) to test to which degree

marcistar

is serious about getting

MegAzumarill

voted out. It was their idea, they formulated it in 49. While I didn't see many valid reasons to vote out

MegAzumarill

at the time, I decided to try something out. I said yes to an obviously flimsy wagon, about which I even openly said that I don't think is very scummy. I wanted to test and see how would

marcistar

behave in this situation.

Their reactions came off as vague and and unwilling to commit to the wagon. Let me just say that it was

marcistar

who suggested this wagon in the first place and now they're chickening out. Which means that they know the wagon is flimsy and will most likely end up with voting out a townie.

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

Let's say I

do

want you to jump on his wagon. What do you say to that?

ill vote it when i wanna unless if u have a good reason
i was og gonna soon after i suggested it and seeing what you thought, but then i got busy and now its not my fave cup of tea.

So basically

marcistar

plants the seed and then avoids responsibility for it.

Unfortunately, I feel like what

Prism

said in 133 very accurately describes what happened. The lack of transparency made other players suspicious of my intentions (even though I feel like I was as transparent as I could in that situation ) which resulted in me being put on E-2. The fact that I was being voted out for flimsy reasons made me want to explain myself more, which unintentionally resulted in me revealing more than I wanted to. Now, I think this could have influenced

marcistar

's play who understood that

MegAzumarill

's wagon (at least I can speak for myself - not

Cape90

nor anyone else who's on that wagon) is not about

MegAzumarill

at all, but about her. Also, in the meantime the game took off, drifted away, leaving my original idea redundant and irrelevant. Plus, the things that happened in-between altered my perception of other players, including

MegAzumarill

.

Because of all that, the experiment did not bring very definite conclusions, but showed me that either

marcistar

is a newbie who just wants to do their best, or a smart scum who knows what's going on around them and tries to avoid incriminating themselves. Their post count pushes me towards the latter.

There are also other things that are a scumread for

marcistar

. For instance, there are a lot of questions asked with no follow-up whatsoever. Posts 42, 47 (question to me) or 89 come to mind. Sure, they've asked people to expand on some issues but they did nothing with the responses. It's a way of getting towncred - seeming like they're trying to get reads, while in fact doing it just for the show.

For reasons stated above, I think I'll VOTE: marcistar.

[StrangeMatter]

StrangeMatter, can you give more specific thoughts about that readslist I gave, or maybe what you think of Meuh's conclusions?

Take it whatever direction you want but some ideas might be whether you disagreed with my placements, thought that any were weird on my end, or think any of Meuh's conclusions (which actually track with my own almost exactly) are completely off

Well of those three I feel like the Hawk happy to vote was the one I understood the least about. I still don’t get why lack of engagement makes it feel scummy. Personally though, I feel like it’s not really indicative of an alignment. Last game (Mini Queue game) I had tunneled someone and made zero content and had a rough time engaging into the game.

I’m gonna come back to this second part since I’m stuck on a phone and will switch over shortly.

[StrangeMatter]

Of course is it justifiable? No. It makes reading them incredibly difficult.

[StrangeMatter]

And by justifiable I mean it shouldn’t be an excuse to not be active if you ask me.

[Cape90]

Quoting isn't working good on mobile

This post is a response to Mueh's wall.
-My bad on 152 you are right. Not sure where I previously misrepresented events, but yeah you are right.
-I thought it was pretty clear the difference my criticism of 149 and what I was criticizing ProHawk for. I literally ask all of the possible answers that I feel like Meg could answer my answer with while it feels like Pro didn't put much thought into his question.
-Maybe "faking content" was the wrong wording but idk what else to call it.

[Prism]

That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.

VOTE: Greeting

I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.

[Greeting]

116 is weird, but probably is some sort of way Greeting is trying to get more information out of his wagon on Meg.
The tone of 122 feels bad, although I could see it come from an annoyed townie not really sure why they're being pushed in the first place (which is supported by 120 and 123)
161 and 164 are posts I could see come from either alignment, Greeting could be maf here trying to just make Meg look dumb, or it could just once again be an extension of annoyance at the wagon on him.

The purpose of 116 was intentionally unclear, but I think it will make sense with 205.
I made 122 in order to expose what I considered illogical behavior on your part.
161 and 164 are just me being snarky towards

MegAzumarill

. We both played a game where they tunnelled me incessantly even though all the signs in the sky pointed to me being town. I even hammered a mafia Day One, but that wasn't enough for them. They had to use an investigative role in order to affirm that I am, in fact, town.

[Greeting]

That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.

VOTE: Greeting

I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.

Oh darn, I guess I've been exposed. I have a private thread where I drafted this.

[Greeting]

Yeah, I requested a private thread from Datisi where I can draft my posts and I think that's where it came from. I had no idea that when you use the post tags in the thread they change into something else completely.

[Prism]

I really hate to make this centerstage. It is unfortunate.

Did you draw this inspiration for a notes PT from a specific player? Why were you copying a link

towards

your Notes PT to begin with?

[Greeting]

I really hate to make this centerstage. It is unfortunate.

Did you draw this inspiration for a notes PT from a specific player? Why were you copying a link

towards

your Notes PT to begin with?

It’s cool, it’s my fault anyways.

I knew this was possible from my first game (N2078) where one of the players had one. Plus, I just read the rules where it was stated that you can ask for one. I tend to be chaotic so I thought I could use one too.

[Cape90]

That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.

VOTE: Greeting

I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.

That explains why I was so confused when I tried checking Greetings' link to something like 113 or 111 or whatever it was and it said I was not authorized to go there .

If Greeting wasn't town for what I pointed out (actually that was mostly for reactions, which I never ended up getting besides a townread by Mueh), I think greeting is town based on their case on marcistar even if I'm not exactly on board. They handled getting off Meg in a towny way IMO.
I think I believe him on the PT to take notes thing.

[Prism]

I am still curious as to what it links to within the thread and why you needed it copied, though it makes little sense to copy the scum PT either except to point a partner somewhere.

[Cape90]

That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.

VOTE: Greeting

I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.

That explains why I was so confused when I tried checking Greetings' link to something like 113 or 111 or whatever it was and it said I was not authorized to go there .

If Greeting wasn't town for what I pointed out (actually that was mostly for reactions, which I never ended up getting besides a townread by Mueh), I think greeting is town based on their case on marcistar even if I'm not exactly on board. They handled getting off Meg in a towny way IMO.
I think I believe him on the PT to take notes thing.

EBWOP: it was post 133 I tried to check from Greeting, but I couldn't

[Greeting]

I am still curious as to what it links to within the thread and why you needed it copied, though it makes little sense to copy the scum PT either except to point a partner somewhere.

It links to the thread only. Since my PT doesn’t have 49 posts (and post 49 is the first one I’m linking to), there isn’t a post 49 from my PT to be linked to.

[Prism]

Thanks for answer. Unfortunately I think we've reached the end of the road on discussing this one.

I don't believe it and it's a matter of votes and whether the other players have questions and agree/disagree.

[Greeting]

Thanks for answer. Unfortunately I think we've reached the end of the road on discussing this one.

I don't believe it and it's a matter of votes and whether the other players have questions and agree/disagree.

Fair enough, I guess one could believe that this was scumplay. I suppose the scum threads work the same as private threads. I’m obviously at fault here anyways.

[Greeting]

Anyways, I’ll go and draft my reads on the other players. This time maybe without copying them straight from my PT.

But so far, my strongest scumlean is marcistar.

[Prism]

Whether it's a scum PT or a notes PT, it happens, it's okay and don't beat yourself up over it too much.

It is a mistake to link to either but any hypothetical wrong conclusions drawn from it are the fault of the voting player, which would be me.

[Greeting]

Townleans:

Cape90

This player has been my first, and strongest townlean in the whole game.

I've liked posts such as 27, 37, 38. It shows legit town newbie to me.
MegAzumarill has a very specific game style, from what I've gathered, and I can imagine that having a scumread on them independently from my mind games is justified (post 53).
I also had the same thoughts about Meuh at the time (53). I find the fact that someone is saying the same things that I'm thinking without being prompted a very good sign.
I don't know why it's a fact that at least one scum has spoken by 82. It's the only off thing in their posts, but it's not a red or even a yellow flag yet.
Post 155 indicates independent thinking and it pretty much sealed the fact that I'm not looking into this slot.

Soft townleans:

In order from strongest to weakest.

Prism

Firstly, I wonder if you were spectating N2081 and knew my play from there? Just curious. (133)

Prism

has been playing tutor and uh, auntie, to all players which is kinda cute. And I prefer to look at it as a townlean.
I don't really understand what she sees as townie in

marcistar

's play in 92.

I would really appreciate it if they expanded on that.

Putting pressure on

ProHawk

isn't really indicative of anything to me. Could be scum play or town play. (94)
I like the fact that they did a U-turn on

Meuh

after they posted their exhaustive reads. It's something I feel similarly about and, just like with

Cape90

, I find players who think similarly to me without being prodded by me, a townlean. (197)
They noticing weird stuff with my post links, using their experience, is an indicator of town play. Her meta that I'm scum and the links lead to a scum thread is wrong, but it's fully justified. (210)

I am being very paranoid about a potential

Prism

/

AsuStuckey

teacher/student play. (135, 137, 171) This is something that an experienced player like her could

easily

pull off and I am keeping this in the back of my mind at all times. If

AsuStuckey

is ever voted out and flip scum, I will immediately get more suspicious of

Prism

.

MegAzumarill

I've known MegAzumarill from N2081. Their self-description of his playing style (64) when it comes to tunnelling is accurate.
Their first posts were, and are neutral to me.
The fact that they jumped to questioning me immediately after I spoke of starting the wagon is a townlean. (64, 70)
Posts 83, 84, 85 and 86 are a neutral read. I can very well see an annoyed townie or an annoyed scum make these.

Posts 96 and 119 feel very inconsistent to me.

If one wanted to give me a chance, then why would they suddenly jump to E-2 me? It just doesn't sit right in my mind.
Although their vote on me in 119 seemed super opportunistic to me at first, his later attempt at tunnelling (139, 140, 142, 144, 151) is consistent with his play from N2081.
Reading into my game history is something a scum has no need to do in order to easily vote me down. Like I said before, it's easy to build a wagon on someone because their play is not fully transparent. But they decided to take the time to analyse my past games. (157, 160)
Which is why this is a soft townlean, but there is a possibility that this will be downgraded.

Meuh

I'm always suspicious of joke play which is exhibited in posts like 12, 13.
But posts like 41 scream genuine newbie on the other hand.
Posts 66 and 69 about me are justified and are a townread in my mind. It's actually the only player who said something somewhat reasonable about me possibly being scum before my accidental PT reveal.
I feel like she's trying to be cute with posts like 81, 90, 98, which is well... cute, but also a bit scummy. Making oneself look cute and vulnerable is a scum strategy I'd personally support and approve if I were scum.
I started seriously questioning her motives in 121 and 127. In retrospect, it seems to me like she was trying to put pressure on me, but I don't see the result exhibited. It's also inconsistent with her later reads (188).
The reads post was good. I think it's a job well done and this landed her a soft townlean for now. (188)

Neutral leans:

All these slots are neutral.

AsuStuckey

Pretty much nothing to go with other than the

Prism

/

AsuStuckey

theory exhibited above.

StrangeMatter

I know them from another game, which is unfinished, therefore I'm not allowed to speak about it.

ProHawk

Their vote on me from 108 seems... lazy.
Their subsequent question in 125 led to... nothing.
Would love to hear more from this slot. I'm not against pressuring them by a vote to speak more.

Scumleans:

marcistar

- reasons stated in 205

Spoiler: Copy/paste of post 205

[...]

Now, to end this experiment of mine.

I've found

marcistar

quite scummy from the very beginning. I disliked almost all of their posts. This is meta, but surprisingly it hasn't failed me yet. Players with a certain posting style from all my previous games (the ones which I can talk about are N2078 and N2081) all turned out to be scum. All three of them. The ones which I can talk about are GrandpaMo in N2078 and Not_Mafia in N2081. They all have the same way in which they formulate thoughts - in a liberal way, without using capital letters etc. You know what I mean. I interpret this as a loose approach to the game, signifying distancing and a relaxed attitude. All that is there for a reason - and the reason is that they want to avoid being seen as stressed, because being scum and having to lie all the time is quite stressful. Check it out yourself and compare.

Obviously, this is not enough for evidence, so I decided to use the situation at the time (virtually nothing was going on) to test to which degree

marcistar

is serious about getting

MegAzumarill

voted out. It was their idea, they formulated it in 49. While I didn't see many valid reasons to vote out

MegAzumarill

at the time, I decided to try something out. I said yes to an obviously flimsy wagon, about which I even openly said that I don't think is very scummy. I wanted to test and see how would

marcistar

behave in this situation.

Their reactions came off as vague and and unwilling to commit to the wagon. Let me just say that it was

marcistar

who suggested this wagon in the first place and now they're chickening out. Which means that they know the wagon is flimsy and will most likely end up with voting out a townie.

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

@

marcistar

are you jumping ship on Meg or not?

do u want me to..?
im still trying to think a lil bit

Let's say I

do

want you to jump on his wagon. What do you say to that?

ill vote it when i wanna unless if u have a good reason
i was og gonna soon after i suggested it and seeing what you thought, but then i got busy and now its not my fave cup of tea.

So basically

marcistar

plants the seed and then avoids responsibility for it.

Unfortunately, I feel like what

Prism

said in 133 very accurately describes what happened. The lack of transparency made other players suspicious of my intentions (even though I feel like I was as transparent as I could in that situation ) which resulted in me being put on E-2. The fact that I was being voted out for flimsy reasons made me want to explain myself more, which unintentionally resulted in me revealing more than I wanted to. Now, I think this could have influenced

marcistar

's play who understood that

MegAzumarill

's wagon (at least I can speak for myself - not

Cape90

nor anyone else who's on that wagon) is not about

MegAzumarill

at all, but about her. Also, in the meantime the game took off, drifted away, leaving my original idea redundant and irrelevant. Plus, the things that happened in-between altered my perception of other players, including

MegAzumarill

.

Because of all that, the experiment did not bring very definite conclusions, but showed me that either

marcistar

is a newbie who just wants to do their best, or a smart scum who knows what's going on around them and tries to avoid incriminating themselves. Their post count pushes me towards the latter.

There are also other things that are a scumread for

marcistar

. For instance, there are a lot of questions asked with no follow-up whatsoever. Posts 42, 47 (question to me) or 89 come to mind. Sure, they've asked people to expand on some issues but they did nothing with the responses. It's a way of getting towncred - seeming like they're trying to get reads, while in fact doing it just for the show.

[...]