Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[Cape90]

but I don't get the "what" that's faked

in terms of 125 it is more of me accusing Prohawk's thoughts being faked. It is just a weird question to ask so it feels like ProHawk was just throwing it out there just because. I don't think the answer to the question is super relevant at that very early stage of the game. The counterpoint to that could be ProHawk was looking for Greeting to say "yeah I think the wagon on me is scum driven" as I could see that as a scum tell?

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game

[Cape90]

Maybe this thought I just got is based around too many hypotheticals, but I feel like Asu would be coached in mafia chat about how to play, what to say to the thread, etc. But instead from Asu, there is no real content/Asu asking what stuff means in thread, which I would expect a new mafia player ask directly to someone else on their team in private. If this makes sense.

Personally, I've tried doing this exact play as town (I actually learned about it from someone playing scum in Newbie 2076 so right now after failing I'm taking it with a grain of salt since they had already known who was town) where I assumed wrong that they didn't have a partner, just that their partner actually didn't really help them much and they escaped under the radar. Personally, though I still think it's possible that scum can just not help each other, though honestly I don't have enough data to really confirm this or not.

oh yeah this is why I thought my argument was "based on too many hypotheticals" since that is obviously a possibility too, it is also possible that they are faking being new, also possible they got told to ask those questions in the thread regardless.
Which if the ladder is the case, that opens up a whole can of worms like 168 from Meg and 170 from Greeting, they both help out Azu after his post so if Azu is mafia in this scenario, are both of them town? Did one of them plan to answer.
Yeah so I don't think it is really worth wasting time on thinking about.

[MegAzumarill]

Real quick, initial impressions are that Greeting doesn't feel like opportunistic scum for vote hopping to marci who is generally town-read in the thread.

Probably going to take a peek at Prism, getting scum-vibes there ATM.

What makes you scumread prism?

[MegAzumarill]

Also; as soon as the initial push on Greeting started, they and strange have been oddly silent about each other. (As far as I see their last mention was on Greeting.

It feels like intentional distancing to me if I'm right about greeting, because they've interacted with almost every other slot far as I can tell

[StrangeMatter]

Excuse me? I've been focused on trying to read Cape09 at this point, I just gave my opinion there, I just haven't really read the slot over again yet.

[StrangeMatter]

Excuse me? I've been focused on trying to read Cape09 at this point, I just gave my opinion there at the time, I just haven't really read the slot over again yet.

EBWOP.

[MegAzumarill]

You really should have an opinion on Greeting considering the amount oof discussion on that slot

[MegAzumarill]

I would like to hear about Greeting's radio silence on Strange until their last post when they managed to fit "null read" into a bigger paragraph than any of their actual reads

[MegAzumarill]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

[Prism]

I really want to meta Greeting when I have time. I'm not sure how to interpret his reaction to me, but skimming the walls made me want to reconsider.

[Prism]

I would love for Meg to go over the difference he sees and why it is likely scum indicative, though

[MegAzumarill]

(Greeting)

(Another player)
My reads so far:

Town Lean

Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.

Neutral

Most of the players.

Scum Lean

None so far. Will update info soon.

That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?

Rereading Greeting's ISO in Newbie 2081 the above quote stood out. Overall Greeting's play in that game (where we both were town) is a lot more transparent than their play here.

The above quote is essentially Greeting scumreading someone for about the same qualities they exhibit this game (lack of reads)
This matters because players (especially new ones) most often scum read behaviors that they themselves do as scum.

I'm going to read their other game on-site in a minute.

Newbie 2078 - Greeting Town
Greeting primarily talks about mech and strategy here over actual reads. It contrasts with her play in 2081, but I suspect its mostly due to it being their first game on site.
Take a look if you want but it doesn't feel like much can be drawn between that one and this.

I am still yet to see any townlike qualities from greeting's play this game, but I'll turn my attention elsewhere for now.

Here's the links to games/ my previous thoughts on that but I'll do a more in depth explanation later. In general this Greeting seems a lot less proactive and is exhibiting behaviors they scumread others for IIRC

[marcistar]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game

why wouldnt his partner tell him to stop after the first time?

[ProHawk]

I've intentionally avoided commenting on Greeting as I knew that they faced issues with players scumreading their tone and finding their play frustrating in Newbie 2081. I wanted to take the time to work through the substance and progression instead.

There's an instinct to be transparent about trying something new that might backfire. Unfortunately, it is usually counterproductive and results in more scrutiny being put on the thing you're testing. I think this is the confusion Greeting is experiencing.

Reviewing Greeting's ISO, I see some pieces I like and some common themes. It's very obvious, at least to me, that what they're doing involves running people up to high-but-not-elimination wagons. Post 91 makes it clear that they weren't voting Meg out of suspicion. I think the most illuminating line comes at the end of 91 in reply to marci: "Wagons can also be used for other purposes than actually voting someone out and that's what I want to do."

I'm not really inclined to vote this slot yet. I wouldn't call it hardtown but I liked 46's reply to Marcistar. Greeting wasn't enthused by the gamepace, but didn't realize that marcistar was highlighting that

someone

has to push the game forward, and the response is in line with that.

This is important based on how I'm reading you at the moment.

You've apparently read Newbie 2081 from Greeting and his intro here in this game. What conclusions have you come up with between the two?

[MegAzumarill]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game

why wouldnt his partner tell him to stop after the first time?

Which player here would you even think would have both the confidence and means to try and micromanage their partner in such a way?

[ProHawk]

Greeting, In answering your question...

In what way?

Why do you expect scum to be a bit nervous?

Let's say I do. Who is your choice and why?

These questions specifically struck me as.... asking questions to ask questions, I can't detect or see the scum-hunting motivation behind these, which I have generally found are easy for scum to ask and drive conversation without actually scum-hunting.

For those of you trying to follow my thought process.

[Prism]

I skimmed 2081 weeks ago when it was ongoing. I have not worked back over it since.

[Prism]

The takeaway about Greeting from that follow along was very limited and exactly what I described in the opening post-I was reading the game primarily to spectate the play of catboi, who I have been friends with for eleven years.

[Prism]

ProHawk-given that that post develops a Greeting townread as opposed to a scumread, and I did not hesitate to pull out the meta I had on hand for marcistar to justify the townread I developed on her, what are you concerned with here?

[ProHawk]

-_()_- It feels more likely to come from town than scum.

I'd provide example but I don't think we'd get anywhere.

VOTE: ProHawk Let's get some pressure this way.

Can you explain your logic/reasoning here? Have you put Greeting on the not-scum list as of this post?

[ProHawk]

ProHawk-given that that post develops a Greeting townread as opposed to a scumread, and I did not hesitate to pull out the meta I had on hand for marcistar to justify the townread I developed on her, what are you concerned with here?

I'm trying to peek into your brain.

So did you not look at the game as a basis on your read developing a town-read? I know you felt like that game was similar in.... "players scumreading their tone and finding their play frustrating". Is that what you meant was the similarity here?

I ISO'ed Greeting in that game, and felt a difference in play-style here from there, so I'm trying to understand from your POV if that makes sense?

[ProHawk]

That said, the MafiaScum wiki has some great articles that have kind of stood the test of time. I'm partial to this one.

Wow, this article is a real eye-opener as to how players on MafiaScum operate and behave. I guess it explains quite a lot. I’ve obviously played mafia several times before joining this site and I knew the general strategies, which I applied in my own way. I had no idea that people use this as a suggested point system and then act upon it.

Alright locking Greeting as town.

Have a nice day

Is this locking town thing a joke around here? I can't fathom any town-player locking anyone down as town aside from IC, or flipped-seer-confirmed.

Is locktown = conftown?

[ProHawk]

Just seems like you are asking a random question without really thinking or trying to see perspective for yourself. I don't see depth in your content in general this game.

If you're town and care to know, I will try to explain this for you.

Greeting said there was something off about his wagon. My mind goes here... "Is he saying its off to throw shade on the people that are pushing his wagon, or does he really feel like it's off... and if he legitimately feels like it's off, why or what was the purpose of saying that specifically." Me asking him more questions helps me see where his thought process is, instead of just assuming where he was going with that.

[Prism]

I again skimmed that game 3 weeks before the start of this one and only noticed Greeting in passing as my focus was on another player.

It informed my focus on using an analysis of his progression as opposed to tone and surface level when it came to reading the slot. My first post is exactly the result. I do not remember a single post of his, I have more vivid memory of the frustration of other players.

While it may seem like I have infinite time to work over every game played onsite, this is unfortunately not the case. I will reread it if I have time but it should be obvious

from the post you quoted

where my effort was directed and why.