Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[Datisi]

vote count 1.08

with 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2021-11-28 00:30:00).

elimination

marcistar [2]:

StrangeMatter, Greeting

ProHawk [2]:

Prism, marcistar

StrangeMatter [1]:

Meuh

Greeting [1]:

MegAzumarill

Prism [1]:

ProHawk

not voting [2]:

AsuStuckey, Cape90

mod notes

~ this vc was made using only the vote counter, please let me know if there are any mistakes

flavour

[Greeting]

Also; as soon as the initial push on Greeting started, they and strange have been oddly silent about each other. (As far as I see their last mention was on Greeting.

It feels like intentional distancing to me if I'm right about greeting, because they've interacted with almost every other slot far as I can tell

...I just literally made 262 though?

[Greeting]

I would like to hear about Greeting's radio silence on Strange until their last post when they managed to fit "null read" into a bigger paragraph than any of their actual reads

Because all I had on them was their past behavior in N2082 and I couldn’t talk about it.

[Greeting]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

I... disagree.

While definitely I am not going to

only

look into past behavior of players this whole game, my belief is that it’s a good starting point.

Also, my past play is being extensively looked into, so why wouldn’t I do that when it comes to other players?

[Cape90]

Did you see Prisms reaction to my post? Rofl

i think prisms frustrated

and i think its reasonable here for her to be

(when shes kinda explained the meta stuff before).
even if her "trajectory on you is odd", odd doesn't always mean scummy. > i don't even find her progression on you odd, you haven't been giving as much content as some of the other people, and for what you said in the bottom of this post, its not wrong to "vote park" if you're not getting what you want,

i know sometimes i tunnel people if im not satisfied with what they give me.

and then im not quite too sure what that thing in ur post was abt the quickshifting.

302 as a whole felt icky from you.
and i think you haven't been helpful for town.

and i think ur too focused on urself, instead of scumhunting.

i really do think it would be easier to read you if you at least tried to give reads, like i know ur capable of doing it.

I can't necessarily explain it well, but for some reason I don't really like this post all too well. Like it seems you are commentating/sidelining on all of this. And the tone in all of the parts of the post I quoted, something feels off here.

[Meuh]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

I... disagree.

While definitely I am not going to

only

look into past behavior of players this whole game, my belief is that it’s a good starting point.

Also, my past play is being extensively looked into, so why wouldn’t I do that when it comes to other players?

That’s not the same thing. People looking for patterns within other players’ gameplay is fine, but you’re saying that certain archetypes of players tend to be town or scum based on just seeing some players who don’t like capitalizing or who act as mentors. If you wanna meta read players, just meta read them on their own past games, or at the very least show that what you’re pointing out in these past players was actually scummy. Like for example, you could’ve looked at another one of N_M’s games where he was town and seen whether or not he capitalizes more as town. Meta reads are fine, I just think you’re leaning into archetypes and playstyles a lot when while they can fluctuate to an extent, you haven’t proven your point that they warrant a town or a scumread over it. It just seems like a massive reach.

[Meuh]

@Marci what are your thoughts on StrangeMatter?

[StrangeMatter]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

Seriously, have you even read my posts? I’ve been reading elsewhere and yet it’s just distancing to you? Do you not understand that people have ACTUAL places they want to focus on at this moment?

[Prism]

It is the morning. I have calmed down. I see no reason to change my vote.

ProHawk did not, and cannot, satisfactorily answer my question. His criticism/vote on me was for not giving any reasoning on his slot at the time of 111/137, "seems to be more but not actually having given more." When confronted about intentionally cutting out the reasoning given in 111, and ignoring the two followup explanations I gave on 137, he shifted the goalpost to not having given more reasoning in my first vote.

He has not interacted substantively with any of my commentary on other slots, such as marcistar or Meuh. He retreated to "overly defensive" then immediately ran the opposite direction with no acknowledgement when I pulled out the receipts of having this same conversation with scum repeatedly. He has no reason to, because acknowledging actual reasoning and that my defensiveness is NAI is inconvenient for him and the push he wants to make.

[Prism]

I don't think this is just bad play. I think this is bad faith engagement. He wanted to know why things were missing. I highlighted that they existed, and in one case cut it out of a quote. There was no evaluation of that content even upon learning it was there, and he changed his argument out of convenience. There was and is no evaluation of any of the substantive reasoning I have given elsewhere.

None of this points towards a genuine curiosity in my alignment.

[StrangeMatter]

but I don't get the "what" that's faked

in terms of 125 it is more of me accusing Prohawk's thoughts being faked. It is just a weird question to ask so it feels like ProHawk was just throwing it out there just because. I don't think the answer to the question is super relevant at that very early stage of the game. The counterpoint to that could be ProHawk was looking for Greeting to say "yeah I think the wagon on me is scum driven" as I could see that as a scum tell?

I disagree with it being weird. I don't think it's a particularly weird thing to say (I've heard something similar to it many, many times), but I do feel like it's kind of an easy question to ask.

[Greeting]

The tone of

ProHawk

's posts feels... towny. But I'll analyse them later.

[Greeting]

I kinda feel like I've already made up my mind as to whom I'd like to be voted out today.

Marcistar

is the only moderate scumread I have at the moment. We do have quite some time until EOD though, and I don't see a majority building on her, so I guess I have to look into alternatives. I'm not sure if I'll do it today, maybe tomorrow tbf.

[Greeting]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

Prefer my vote here.

May be wrong on this idea but I feel like Strange's in a position a lot of mafia members are: widely null or slightly scumread with not much radical takes, and without much pressure on them. I think this kind of null or slight scumread is what a lot of mafia members like to read each other, I could see many players be doing this regarding Strange.

You're correct on this, and that is exactly why I scumread

StrangeMatter

in N2082, even just right before my self-hammer and subsequent elimination from the game. Thing is, they turned out to be town. And that's why I'm reluctant to join the wagon. But truth is, I've never seen scum

StrangeMatter

either.

[Greeting]

VOTE: StrangeMatter

Prefer my vote here.

May be wrong on this idea but I feel like Strange's in a position a lot of mafia members are: widely null or slightly scumread with not much radical takes, and without much pressure on them. I think this kind of null or slight scumread is what a lot of mafia members like to read each other, I could see many players be doing this regarding Strange.

You're correct on this, and that is exactly why I scumread

StrangeMatter

in N2082, even just right before my self-hammer and subsequent elimination from the game. Thing is, they turned out to be town. And that's why I'm reluctant to join the wagon. But truth is, I've never seen scum

StrangeMatter

either.

Here's my read on SM from that game:

Moderate scumlean

(two players in this category are of equal suspicion to me)

StrangeMatter

- Ever since entering the game they seem to be comfortably sitting on the fence, questioning and judging around, but without going into any concrete direction. Sure, it's okay if one doesn't like my self-hammer play (374, 385) I respect that. Sure, it's okay if one thinks I'm harming town (673). It feels to me like commenting on whatever I'm doing at the moment and questioning me is an easy way to get towncred without actually doing anything themselves. It is notable to me that they haven't really shared any strong read on anyone or even voted for anyone.

While StrangeMatter isn't exactly my first choice for an elimination vote, I can join that wagon.

[Greeting]

Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.

I... disagree.

While definitely I am not going to

only

look into past behavior of players this whole game, my belief is that it’s a good starting point.

Also, my past play is being extensively looked into, so why wouldn’t I do that when it comes to other players?

That’s not the same thing. People looking for patterns within other players’ gameplay is fine, but you’re saying that certain archetypes of players tend to be town or scum based on just seeing some players who don’t like capitalizing or who act as mentors. If you wanna meta read players, just meta read them on their own past games, or at the very least show that what you’re pointing out in these past players was actually scummy. Like for example, you could’ve looked at another one of N_M’s games where he was town and seen whether or not he capitalizes more as town. Meta reads are fine, I just think you’re leaning into archetypes and playstyles a lot when while they can fluctuate to an extent, you haven’t proven your point that they warrant a town or a scumread over it. It just seems like a massive reach.

Oh, obviously, I wouldn't say X is town just because the

type of their play

reminds me of someone else who flipped town in another game.

But it is an important indicator to me. If I'm townreading someone for different reasons, then this can act as something that strengthens the townread. It also works in the opposite way, this time with

marcistar

.

[marcistar]

I can't necessarily explain it well, but for some reason I don't really like this post all too well. Like it seems you are commentating/sidelining on all of this. And the tone in all of the parts of the post I quoted, something feels off here.

how am i sidelineing when i voted..? isn't that taking a clear stance on the situation..?
tone feels off in a scummy way..? or just off..?

@Marci what are your thoughts on StrangeMatter?

null read, but they aren't top of my worries rn.
i don't really find most of what they've done scummy.

I kinda feel like I've already made up my mind as to whom I'd like to be voted out today.

Marcistar

is the only moderate scumread I have at the moment. We do have quite some time until EOD though, and I don't see a majority building on her, so I guess I have to look into alternatives. I'm not sure if I'll do it today, maybe tomorrow tbf.

never say never bestie!!

[Datisi]

replacing AsuStuckey.

[Prism]

I'm going to try to work back over Greeting's wallreads and my read on marcistar today, so someone poke me if I don't do that by end of today.

Right now, ordered T->S, I'm at:

Meuh -> marcistar -> Cape90 -> Meg -> AsuStuckey -> StrangeMatter -> Greeting -> ProHawk

I also need to revisit why I think Meg's improved, and hoping for more from the Asus replacement

[MegAzumarill]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

Seriously, have you even read my posts? I’ve been reading elsewhere and yet it’s just distancing to you? Do you not understand that people have ACTUAL places they want to focus on at this moment?

Maybe you should try actually giving some info to the game? You just look like lazy newbscum not giving input at this point so speak up if you are town

[StrangeMatter]

I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.

Seriously, have you even read my posts? I’ve been reading elsewhere and yet it’s just distancing to you? Do you not understand that people have ACTUAL places they want to focus on at this moment?

Maybe you should try actually giving some info to the game? You just look like lazy newbscum not giving input at this point so speak up if you are town

Oh FFS.

Seriously if I was lazy like my other game I would've just posted nothing at all, which right now I'm trying to get the reads I need to catch scum right now, something I absolutely struggle with within a lot of the recent games I've played. Granted, I am still reading the discussion but this is so aggravating to read because it's painting a dumb narrative when I have been trying, maybe not in the way others like but still.

[Greeting]

I've read all

StrangeMatter

's posts and nothing really sticks out to me.

Posts like 67, 87, 95, 185 are fairly neutral and consistent with my feel of them from N2082.

StrangeMatter

has a habit of asking a lot of questions with little follow-up. This can be seen in 228, 270. They definitely are sitting on the sidelines of this game, but they've done this in that past game before. I remember their play there being very passive until they decided on my wagon, and my feeling is that that's just the way they're playing, at least early in the game.

I just can't get more out of this slot than I already have (and I'm aware that is quite little). And to be fair, I don't feel any sort of paranoia here, like I slightly did with

Prism

/

AsuStuckey

(described in 224). I would have probably latched onto them for this type of play if I didn't study it closely during N2082, and they seem to exhibit it here as well.

They also are voting

marcistar

. @

StrangeMatter

, could you please expand on why you're on this wagon with me?

[StrangeMatter]

RVS really.

Never really had anywhere I wanted to go on the vote. But I'm kind of leaning towards Meg as one of my votes for today.

[StrangeMatter]

Maybe I'm just angry and just biasing myself but I'm getting off for right now and getting my head away from this.

UNVOTE:

[MegAzumarill]

RVS really.

Never really had anywhere I wanted to go on the vote. But I'm kind of leaning towards Meg as one of my votes for today.

Just because I want to call you out for just coasting by on little actual content isn't a reason to scumread me.

Actually post some of your thoughts because that's how town wins. We need discussion not you sitting around playing the OMGUS card