Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[Greeting]

Now, when it comes to

ProHawk

.

Their start in the game was lazy. I felt like their vote and reasoning in 108 was the easy choice at the moment.
Nonetheless, they did finally point to the unanswered questions in 291, the timing of which was late, and by that time the heat of my wagon was wearing off. A scum could have just conveniently forgotten about this exchange. Yet, in spite of them already going after

Prism

, they showed consistency. To me that's a plus.
Post 125 had

some

follow-up in 298. I'm not sure I understand what they mean, though. I've already moved on from that point of the game and

Meuh

with

MegAzumarill

who were voting me at the time have an, albeit soft and weak, townread.
He also correctly points out

Prism

's high reliance on meta in 302.
Their last reactions can be interpreted either as scummy and towny. Basically, annoyed town or annoyed scum (336, 338, 339, 341). So this gives us nothing.
Their spat with

Prism

seems like town/town just like I had one with

Val89

in N2082.

I'm not feeling this slot is very scummy either.

And this is really frustrating to me, because there are obviously two scums in this game and I can spot only one.

I guess if one of the

StrangeMatter

or

ProHawk

wagons pulls through, it will be without me on it. Unless something changes by EOD.

[Greeting]

RVS really.

Maybe I'm just angry and just biasing myself but I'm getting off for right now and getting my head away from this.

UNVOTE:

Well, that's disappointing.

[Prism]

It is extremely typical for people to look into arguments with me, see that they are too complex or specific, and dismiss them as likely TvT.

All 3 of the samples I gave where I had similar arguments with scum had multiple town players drawing the same lazy conclusion and losing two of the games for it.

[Prism]

ie. I don't enjoy getting the substantive parts of my argument dismissed as That with no response to the actual meat of my argument.

[Prism]

dismissed as TvT*, phone autocorrect strikes again

[MegAzumarill]

The prism/prohawk argument I have feelings on but wish not to say until after Asus Replacement comments on the matter

[Greeting]

It is extremely typical for people to look into arguments with me, see that they are too complex or specific, and dismiss them as likely TvT.

All 3 of the samples I gave where I had similar arguments with scum had multiple town players drawing the same lazy conclusion and losing two of the games for it.

I have a rather firm townread on you and a neutral read on

ProHawk

. I’ve read their posts in isolation from your responses and their posts just don’t give me a very scummy feeling. Not a townie feeling either. I honestly just concluded nothing from it.

And the way I see it, I’d rather vote someone out whom I see at least a bit more sus. And, unfortunately, at the moment there is just one player who sticks out.
There are some possibilities:
1)

marcistar

’s scumbuddy is

AsuStuckey

and I can’t deduce that other than by townreading everyone else - for reasons which I think are obvious;
2) my reads are wrong - and this is more likely than 1) and this is really annoying, because I’ve worked on them for a long time and I don’t see them having changed substantially since I posted them. Like, there has been far more posts from both

StrangeMatter

and

ProHawk

and all of them amount to them being neutral reads as they were. I guess I’m very slightly more leaning towards

ProHawk

being scummier than the former, but there isn’t a red flag out there for me (nor a green flag for that matter).

What’s also annoying is that my townreads seem to be going in a completely different direction to myself.

I guess I’ll take another approach (definitely not today, but tomorrow) and try to find a scumbuddy for

marcistar

.

[Meuh]

Excited for the replacement; it’s like getting a whole new player

At this point here’s a little sort of where I’d like to vote today:

Very much down: Strange, ProHawk
Asu’s tier: Asu
Eh, I guess: Greeting, Marci
Meg’s tier: Meg
Nah: Prism, Cape

Meg’s recent posting looks better to me, Marci’s recent posting has been a bit eh, on the other end. Greeting’s private thread stuff and the justification for the recent Marci read doesn’t feel incredible, but the prevailing thought I have about him leans towards town.
I’d slightly prefer a Strange vote over a ProHawk vote, mostly because ProHawk’s providing much better content to actually base reads on.

I think I’ll reread the ProHawk and Prism stuff at some point but I found the whole thing frustrating initially, not really motivated to.

Asu’s spot will fluctuate depending on the replacement, but at the moment that slot sits there.

[MegAzumarill]

I'm honored to have my own tier!

[MegAzumarill]

It makes me want to cry tiers of joy.

[Prism]

Alright, if you're insistent on focusing on tone over substance there's not much I can do on that front. I'll circle back when I get free time today to read marcistar and yourself (Greeting) again.

For anyone looking for a singular concise post from me, I think this post and the immediate next are the clearest summary I have made of the argument. It helps to revisit ProHawk's posts from 302 on afterwards to check what I am saying for yourself. My other posts are mostly just redundant restatements.

[Greeting]

I still haven't gotten over the fact that Azumarill's eyes in Meg's avatar are slightly moving.

[Meuh]

I'm honored to have my own tier!

It makes me want to cry tiers of joy.

You deserve it!

I still haven't gotten over the fact that Azumarill's eyes in Meg's avatar are slightly moving.

Holy shit I never realized that. Will never look at that avatar the same way

[MegAzumarill]

See one of these days I'm going to mirror the eyes and see who notices.
Or maybe slightly zoom in on the face

[Greeting]

None of this points towards a genuine curiosity in my alignment.

That is a statement that I can somewhat see being true. I focused on the fact that he did finish his trains of thoughts (there were two of them regarding myself), but not in the way he did it and it was, in fact, really just tying loose ends. I suppose he could be doing it for the sake of not being accused of abandoning suspicious and being inconsistent.

Like, I did tie my loose ends in 201, but with a (what I think is) logical explanation of what I was actually trying to do at the time. But this from

ProHawk

just felt... lazy.

Admittedly, I didn't address 291, but that's because I felt like this was already answered with that phase of the game being long over in my head.

Reading more deeply into 298, I could see this being a scumlean by trying to exploit something I indeed had said, but long ago, and have since gone elsewhere. Then again, this is quite a weak thing to say and point out, in my opinion. So it could also be a townie, who hasn't been catching up fully with the thread and had something stuck in their head from earlier on. Especially since it was them who asked the question regarding my first wagon (125).

My first wagon, when I was put at E-3, to me seemed like something that had some chance of success (and I was really annoyed about it, because of how flimsy it was). He moved on from it very late, long after the whole Greeting is us before accidental PT reveal ended. They also said nothing about my PT links and tbf, it seems like an important event in this game. It's something I definitely would comment on, if it happened to someone else other than myself. And I've seen most players address this one way or another, except

StrangeMatter

,

ProHawk

and

AsuStuckey

.

Any thoughts about this?

[Greeting]

See one of these days I'm going to mirror the eyes and see who notices.
Or maybe slightly zoom in on the face

Taking inspiration from this?

Spoiler: Big image

[Cape90]

I can't necessarily explain it well, but for some reason I don't really like this post all too well. Like it seems you are commentating/sidelining on all of this. And the tone in all of the parts of the post I quoted, something feels off here.

how am i sidelineing when i voted..? isn't that taking a clear stance on the situation..?
tone feels off in a scummy way..? or just off..?

1. Sidelining isn't the right wording, sorry it was midnight after work. I would describe it as more randomly interjecting yourself into a situation that I felt was slightly awkward.
-Never said I disagreed with what you were saying/your stance though.
-Not sure if it was like, in a scummy way as I am usually just kind of bad at reading things like that. I put it out there to see if I got more opinions on my post and the only other response I got sided with you so

[StrangeMatter]

By high demand I guess. Maximum effort.

Alright I took a short break, and read the ProHawk and Prism argument. I see where Prism is coming from with saying it reads like really bad faith. ProHawk looking through just doesn’t give anything good just feeling like they’re lashing back in certain posts. However I personally am stumped to what to really think about Prism’s #343. For one what I like is that it gives kind of an idea of something that has a good track record of working. However, I feel like it’s just a whole stroking your own ego post. It’s a little odd as well to me how they don’t show cases of not necessarily being right.

Ego puts me off is how often it’s screwed me, especially from other players. I can name quite a few people who have either disregarded everything because of it, and or added to their own conf bias into believing something, such as the multiple cases of people saying “StrangeMatter is 100% scum, we win here” and never actually being right.

Idk how to really end posts like this.

[Greeting]

I'm honored to have my own tier!

It makes me want to cry tiers of joy.

I can't believe I missed this pun! English isn't my native language.

I guess I should be heading to sleep now, though.

[StrangeMatter]

In short terms though, ego in general is just…weird to me. I’ve only seen it come from town, but it always feels like something that steers people into the wrong place almost every time.

[Prism]

It’s a little odd as well to me how they don’t show cases of not necessarily being right.

My reads in general are very average to below average. If you're looking for something I'm usually more wrong on, I am often skeptical of players

townreading

me for something I think inadequate, where I powertunnel them in response and only realize I'm wrong like a gameday or two later. My townreads are also often wrong and complete garbage.

However, my reads in discerning how genuine a push on me is is the singular area where I shine. It is responsible for virtually nearly every scumflip I have ever driven.

There are at least another 3/4 examples scattered around of it netting scumflips, and plenty more of getting townreads out of it. I did it

with both scum

in the last Newbie game I played, Open House, with a third false flag coming when a town player (catboi) admitted to lying about having scumread on me.

There are only two reads where I can think that it went wrong, and in both I backed off when I cooled down. The first is Happy Face Mafia as willow1, where I got into it with VFP Day 1 before eventually deciding it was null. The second is Warehouse-13, where I went back and forth on MathBlade but generally thought they were town all game up until the last scum mechanically threw the game which caused me to doubt my PoE.

Could I be wrong this game? Absolutely, but this is the most reliable tool I have in my kit and I will use it aggressively. I am willing to admit I am wrong on ProHawk, but he has to give me reason to think so first.

[Prism]

I'm actually going to take the evening to do non-mafia things since I've spent a bit too much time on this and spectating a few other games lately.

I'm hoping we get a replacement soon that revitalizes the AsuStuckey slot, and I'm eager to let other slots dialogue without me dominating the discussion spamming about ProHawk and why I approach the push the way I do

My point with ProHawk isn't "Fuck you, sheep me, I'm right and foolproof" but to engage with the meat of the case rather than just dismiss it as a niche slapfight definitionally TvT. I'm grateful that several players (such as StrangeMatter and marcistar) have done so, even if in limited ways, and respect that others will read it but from an angle I am less enthusiastic about (Greeting's focus on tone over substance)

[Cape90]

I feel like it’s a weird paranoia to be worrying about both scum hammering on day 1 and outing themselves. Kind of want to know where you base this paranoia Greeting.

I am a little confused here.
Wouldn't this be a good thing that we shouldn't be paranoid about? Is that what you are saying?

[Cape90]

The prism/prohawk argument I have feelings on but wish not to say until after Asus Replacement comments on the matter

Why is this exactly? What is the use of holding thoughts?

[Cape90]

Meuh is an interesting case, I don't think they are S/S (scum partners) with greeting. I could see town!meuh and scum!greeting or vice versa. I'd like to hear more from the slot and don't want to lim them today.



This leaves a pool of AzuStuckey, greeting, Prohawk lims for today.

So Mueh was not in your pool here why exactly?