Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!]

[ProHawk]

Good luck to us if we run up a power town finding a plan B....

[Cape90]

GtH there the mafia there is ProHawk and not Prism.

can u tell me what "GtH" means please?

i don't

dislike

prohawks read on strangematter, but imo it felt a bit like i had to ask for it yknow..?

Gun to

the

head?

^

I dislike ProHawk's trying to steer away from Prism (this is specifically onto StrangeMatter)

I would love to hear more about this, specifically why Scum-ProHawk would do such a thing as opposed to tunnel on Prism like she's going to be doing on me the rest of the game...

Considering 469 this seems a bit strange not to just go with Prism. I think why ProHawk scum would do such a thing would be to push on somebody who they think it would be easier to push on, or to appear as town in this situation. I think my read is a little strange because I have suspicion on Prism for almost the opposite reason.

[ProHawk]

I suppose that's understandable logic...

Going after the lower hanging fruit, although I'm mostly just frustrated that we have zero traction on anyone this late in the game

[Cabd]

I'll be finishing my catch-up and such this evening after holiday festivities.

[Greeting]

Greeting, what happened to all of the memes/youtube links/pictures in your posts?

...nothing? They're still there last second I checked.

umm, no I mean like you stopped doing it.

I don't posts memes regularly, but when I feel like it.

[Greeting]

Also why in the world are you also not voting anyone? I could probably also go for a Cape90 elimination at this point.

Unless anyone has any earth-shattering revelations, I'm probably sticking to one of [Cape, SM, or Prism]

Here's my ranking from most town to most scum...

ProHawk
marcistar
Meuh
Greeting
Cabd
MegAzumarill
Cape90
StrangeMatter
Prism Spartan117

Cabd isn't a real read but because of the lack of content he goes smack dab in the middle for now.

What exactly do you find scummy about

Cape90

?

[ProHawk]

Lack of voting, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

[MegAzumarill]

I wanted to wait until after the catchup but I suppose I'll give some thoughts now to allow for enough time in the day phase to decide on a lim.

I'm currently locked on mobile at the moment so don't expect anything fancy.

I think that ProHawk's recent posting has been incredibly townie (a few key points to this but I'll get that when I can use a CPU) and that their interaction with prism (if s/t)points to scum!prism moreover then scum!prohawk)

While I initially townread prism their play since that point has really fallen off and they have moved quite far down my reads list. Their insistence on a prohawk lim and interaction with Greeting over the Pt issue makes me want them as the next lim.

I'll go in depth when able (unknown when but probably in 24 hrs or so)

VOTE: Prism

[Prism]

I've had a few projects I have wanted to do with this game that I have put off but time is ticking. We'll see.

Only town point I saw from ProHawk was the suggestion of himself over marcistar, which is one of the older tricks in the book but generally +town. It's why I immediately questioned it and I wasn't sure about the answer.

I think Cabd not keying into anything other than Cape's post is scum indicative.

[Prism]

People also seem to miss where ProHawk's attempt to consensus vote StrangeMatter comes from, and it (probably?) came from this discussion around him/marcistar is not the split.

We have to vote someone off D1, so my approach is going with someone who I feel like has the greatest probability of flipping RED.

Right, but you're suggesting that you're a better flip than her, and while she does have two votes most of the table townreads her. The chance of you flipping red is supposedly zero, and there are other slots on the table

(ex. StrangeMatter is consensus below-null even if not anyone's top SR)

I think shifting to not-yourself is generally a good play regardless of alignment.

[Meuh]

I don't think Prohawk's scum. His posts just don't read like it

I don't really see Prism's tunneling as too scummy though tbh? At this point I probably want a lim somewhere in Strange or Cabd

Sorry for not posting much, I have been reading still but I feel like while I am technically caught up, for the past 2 days almost none of the information has actually absorbed in my brain at all; especially the whole Prism ProHawk stuff which I'll need to read again at some point because I have not been able to get much out of it in terms of the actual arguments being made, but a general overlook looked townie for ProHawk. I did like the wanting to flip over Marci thing, I've made that exact type of comment before as a townie and I don't think it's something scum say much

[Cape90]

Spoiler:

StrangeMatter - I agree with the second part of 68. 78 nervousness is a scum tell I guess, personally, I don't think it is very strong.
87 I can see that, I feel like it is a very easy read to make though.
99 well, shouldn't you consider it a scumtell then?
I didn't realize Strange also responded to Asu but they did in 185.
206 is an interesting thought.
228 feels a bit towny.
I think 257 is a fair response to my concern. I kind of like the defensiveness in 357.
IDK I feel like Strange's tone in some of these posts like 392 and the constant way they seem to correct themselves is town-indicitive.
Yeah I agree with 430 I rarely see town quickhammers unless the town decides to self-vote but even then.

Mueh - 34 I actually like this post, though early on it does seem like an odd read to make. Honestly, I don't really have a lot of feelings on the beginning posts of Meuh that much besides 43 which I have already talked about.
69 is an alright suspicion on Greeting. I like 90 as it is a response to a fairly decent sized post and it is easy to follow along with.
98 the pink part is towny tbh and probably indicates Mueh not w/w with marcistar.
Post 127 is a bit strange and the first sentence feels hedgy in a sort of way. Of course there is the whole readslist thing which I think is fine. I like 233.
268 is a little :/ and I don't know why I feel that way.
I actually kind of agree with 316 here to where I feel like Strange probably has the widest scum possible partnership out of anyone here. I have a slight feeling they are town which makes me wonder about possible distancing going on between the wolves right now.
321

If scum!ProHawk saw this post, this actually might explain why scum ProHawk would distance themselves from trying to attack Prism and go onto StrangeMatter

.
355 yeah I feel like in general, meta is relied on a bit too much, but it can be useful.
I guess 407 is completely possible too.

Greeting - A lot of Greeting's entry posts are NAI. 51 and 54 are both indeed a bit strange, but riddle me this, why would scum even have this paranoia in the first place?
What is up with 91 testing stuff, what do you mean by that?
122 I was about to say this makes no sense, but it actually makes perfect sense, only way I could see it is if mafia decided to bus there, you know what 121 is strange by Meuh.
I like the train of thought on Meg in 126. I don't think I need to reiterate anything on 180 at this point.
201 screams of a town push despite there being the whole PT debacle.
I like 262 as well. Look if the whole Private thread thing was actually a scumslip, they are doing really well wolfing tbh and I will vote them 10/10 times in every game in the future I play with Greeting just out of paranoia.
I like Greeting's efforts on Strange/ProHawk on 371 & 375.
381 is decent.
This is probably my strongest townread.

Cabd - 440 ehhhh. 466 did you read my post? I said I think one of them is mafia and the other isn't.

ProHawk - Why in 40 have we already escaped the random voting scene, there were still some random votes being thrown around.
Nothing really takes me until 125 which I mildly thought was scummy but, eh not really, and it has been already discussed.
291 is fair.
336 classic lol defense.
348 Well you put out a sort of actual readslist later. Insecure?
405 you would flip yourself over Marci???
I will have to do some digging later on about ProHawk's town games, not sure where I could find one but it does seem to be his major point in defense.
Why are you talking about marcistar in 409? Like what is the context there?
I am not really buying a lot of ProHawk's rebuttal against Prism.
422 I could agree with this EXCEPT in cases where it is ELO where town has no wiggle room, then OTT defense is not alignment indicitive.
439 this post is odd but I kinda like the random inclusion of timestamps.
I could see where the suspicion on me is coming from, I have not been really

here

as much as I should have been, I usually am more active especially day 1.

Prism - Had an okay opener, also explained they had some meta on marcistar and they said marci is a townlean in 92.
97 intuitive? Didn't you link that article that was talking about scum behaviors and you being partial to that? Like you know... THIS POST 171,

you know, from the article that literally says that nervousness

oh nvm the article says nothing about that...
105 hmm.
I kind of like 133 about Greeting here.
197 Okay but this shouldn't be the end all be all.
214 217 220 Oh lord this progression, especially 220... 220 feels too... formal, you know? Oh no I just saw 223

Whether it's a scum PT or a notes PT,

it happens, it's okay and don't beat yourself up over it too much.

It is a mistake to link to either

but any hypothetical wrong conclusions drawn from it are the fault of the voting player, which would be me.

just like, the entire red section here is just... man you aren't making this decision between you/ProHawk for me EZ and fwiw Strange is town sooo.
And then you go back to normal and make decent posts like 229.
235 yeah usually preflip associations more hurt then help, like sometimes I would be like "oh I think x player is paired with y player" but I usually don't like putting a lot of weight into that, I feel like finding non-associatives are important.
265 1. Good
2. What was Strange's vote?
3. Yeah Pro did kinda not give concrete stuff, I don't really think I did either, but my early game was way better then my game right now, sorry about that.
A lot of meta stuff in 312.
314 315, yeah those posts from Pro aren't so great. You know, you might be town Prism. 301 seems like a pretty unassuming post about "hey why haven't you looked at my previous town games" post but it makes you "mald"?
317 ahah okay fine you can be town Prism.
331 IMO you should have voted 326 ago.
379 is a part of the reason I said I didn't think Prism/ProHawk were T/T.
I think Prism is really town despite the way the whole Greeting thing went down. It felt oddly diplomatic, you know.

marcistar - Despite it being about me 22 is still the towniest early post change my mind.
23 would mafia use this argument? IDK.
I like the way marci formats her stuff.

Then there is this post that I am making which is sure to be a complete mess.

In post 45, Greeting wrote:

I love this song!
UNVOTE: AsuStuckey

what do you love so much abt it that made you unvote?

Sorry about the formatting, but does this question matter?
I like the prods on Asu in 182 and 227.
Hmm, marci's posts themselves are fine but they seem to lack... something sometimes, you know. And even with something more lengthy like 347, I had my own issues with the post when it came to the way things were said here.
I like marci's tone most of the time with her posts. My assumption would be if ProHawk is town, then marci is scum. I will have to do a metadive later.

MegAzumarill - Woo! Yeah! I made it! Okay 9
36 I still don't really see this logic here. The game can start.
55 & 88 this is my life now, I have grown too tired to not just emoji this... k fine. I don't like these 2 posts like, right next to each other because like, it appears that MegAzumarill has like, you know, started scumhunting in 85 86. It feels inconsistent.
138 a lot of people have been pointing out 119 without refrencing this post too, that concerns me. With the trajectory that Meg seemed to be going, I was expecting a vote on StrangeMatter.
Kinda like 151 as it shows a thought process.
I like 177 too.
232 239 241 I am not sure how to feel about this progression here.
282 "oof discussion" and Greeting is still scum to you all smh.
Okay I actually have the other 2 games that Greeting was town in and up. Night and day eh? I will be the judge of that, probably after dinner, but you know.
I think, Meg is fine I suppose.

Greeting
Mueh
Prism

StrangeMatter

MegAzumarill
marcistar

Cabd

ProHawk

[Cape90]

VOTE: ProHawk

I have decided, this is the best course of action

editing the obvious vote into a proper format due to the vote counter being weird ~D

[Cape90]

If we're in a setup with a JK, then whoever JK had roleblocked is basically confirmed town, right?

We have two town power roles and a Mafia Goon who now submits the night kill alone.

If we have a JK and they use their powers on Night Two, the possible outcomes are:
1. if they pick a Vanilla Townie, they will receive the info that "x" is Vanilla, which basically confirms that this person is a Vanilla Townie;
2. if they pick the other Power Role, I think that person's role will be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success;
3. if they pick the Mafia Goon, their NK should be blocked and they will receive info that the role block was a success.

It will take some deduction to differentiate between 2 and 3.

If they successfully role blocked the Mafia Goon, there will be no NK. If they role block the other town PR, there (most likely) will be a NK.

I don't know what the JK receives if they target a player who does have a power role but didn't utilise it on that Night. Technically there is also a possibility that a Mafia Goon skips a NK even though that's clearly in not their interest. In my last game, N2078, the power roles weren't used every night.

Also, I still don't follow what advantage town gets from knowing the setup. Right now scum can't know the setup yet, while the PRs would have more information on the setup, even exactly in the event that said PR is a JK or a doctor. I'm not sure why we'd want to nullify that.

Since Not_Mafia was a Rolecop, we have the following possibilities:

1. Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor
2. Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor
3. Town Tracker and Town Doctor

Each of the players who have one of these four roles can narrow this down.

If there is a Doctor in the game, they will know that the other power role is a Tracker.
If there is a JK in the game, they will know that the other power role is a FN.
The Tracker will know that there is either a FN or a Doctor, and so there is no JK in the game.
The FN will know that there is either a Tracker or a JK, and so there is no Doctor in the game.

That is, of course, discounting the potential usage of power roles during the Night Phase. It's likely that at least one clever player already knows the setup of the game, but it's not 100% certain.

Hmm... have not seen posts like this from Greeting this game, I am not sold on them being scum, but there certainly are noticeable differences like this + the lack of GIFs this game.

[Cape90]

What I find a bit odd is how Greeting in his previous games seemed to be so cautious about the whole E-2 E-1 thing although in their prior town games, they acknowledge it and don't seem all that fazed by the concept.

I wonder what the reactions will be when I flip town, which I am.

Comes off a little strange. Why the comment so far from elimination?

Five votes are needed to vote someone out. I am at four atm.

Is TL at E-1 now? You’d better elaborate fast then.

[ProHawk]

Greeting absolutely has a meta shift, unsure if that's AI though....

Finally you voted, geez.

[ProHawk]

I'll go in depth when able (unknown when but probably in 24 hrs or so)

VOTE: Prism

While I appreciate the vote, I don't think there is enough support for a Prism Elimination, you really should be looking between myself and StrangeMatter unless people get on and start swinging a certain direction.

I have a feeling that the lack of traction on anything indicates that scum is likely stalling.

[StrangeMatter]

Lack of voting

, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

Okay I know this is about Cape09, but why is a lack of voting scummy?

[MegAzumarill]

I don't think I've ever seen these sort of consensus scum read lims nearing deadline ever result in eliminating scum, especially D1, and DEFINITELY not with wagons this stagnant.
If there isn't traction for the wagon we need to make it.
All aboard the Prism bus!

[ProHawk]

Lack of voting

, lots of opinions, essentially fence-sitting behavior

Okay I know this is about Cape09, but why is a lack of voting scummy?

Voting pisses people off. Scum need to stay out of the limelight to survive. Not to mention, they are forcing a rushed elimination which will force us to make quick decisions.

[StrangeMatter]

In fact, that's exactly what someone said about my slot, and was completely wrong on eliminating me (which was Town). I've said this before (very very poorly worded I think) that voting is not worth looking into without the reason behind it.

Also, you just vote to piss people off? And how does that even tie into "scum need to stay out of the limelight"? I've seen plenty of people who bring attention to themselves, and push themselves as deep wolves as well.

[StrangeMatter]

I'm not really going to judge on that first part btw.

[StrangeMatter]

I mean the first question I asked.

[ProHawk]

There's no 100% secret sauce playbook on how to catch scum, just letting you know my viewpoints on it.

Vote count analysis is huge towards endgame on figuring out motives. If you just plain never vote, it makes it a lot harder to be sussed out.

[ProHawk]

No, I don't vote to piss people off, people just take offence in general to being voted has been my general experience. You voting for someone calls attention to yourself, versus being a "neutral" party and staying out of fights, etc.