Open 835: D6 | Songs About Ronald Reagan | Day 5

[RH9]

RH9, you came in and mis-labeled Taly as scum in a meta dive, and then said Taly feels different this game when Taly had made just two posts, one asking the best way to catch up and the other a solvey-type post. Then you figure out that Taly wasn't scum in the game you quoted but you don't change direction on Taly.

To be fair, Taly's current posting feels different to that of when he's Mafia.

How can you get a feel for Taly with him posting just twice. Shouldn't you be reading Gamma Emerald, the player that Taly subbed for? Wouldn't that produce better data? And if Taly's posting this game feels different that Slaughter Hour, are you saying that he's mafia this game? And how was Taly's posting to the point where you said he was different when he was mafia different this game anyway?

Didn't Taly replace redtea? But then, looking back, I think that it is just Taly's playstyle and I mislabbeled it. No, I thought that before, but Taly feels quite Town to me. And I thought that Taly would be writing longer but wrote quite less before.

[RH9]

How do you feel about eliminating Galron, then? I feel better about Roden then Galron.
VOTE: Galron for coordinating the 'miselimination'.

Just jump on in Taly. You'll fall asleep reading.

How do you feel about eliminating Galron, then? I feel better about Roden then Galron.
VOTE: Galron for coordinating the 'miselimination'.

Assuming Galron is Scum; why do you think he voted numberQ over Egix?

I'd like to hear RH9's answer to this.

Actually good question. VOTE: Egix96 for today. I guess that maybe it will make more sense if Galron, is Town.

To be fair, if Egix96 is Mafia, we can vote Roden next.

The conversation right now is mostly about the wagons that are currently happening, so probably necessary to at least read the current day. Beyond that, this game has honestly been pretty slow.

pedit: Well I'm voting Egix and have been SRing him since day 1. I think his lim will help build associations on Roden and/or Galron. Maaaybe RH9, though at the moment I think that's a flimsier connection. I've talked about this in previous posts this day.

Hmm. I don't know, I still like Egix for the lim. Their play has been scummier than Roden and Galron imo. Plus, them flipping scum will give us a lot more info than one of the other two flipping scum, at least in terms of lending validity to my theory. Maybe there are other associations that a Roden or Galron flip would shed light on that I'm not thinking of.

Well, if Egix96 is Mafia, then are you suggesting that Roden and Galron aren't Town. Honestly, Galron feels more Towny now.

Walk me through this. Explain to me like I haven't been born yet what changed your mind from voting Galron in 831 to get to a "more towny feel" in 844

Galron's posting. It felt not overdefensive. Mafia would be overdefensive and immediately try to vote anybody who dares to vote them. Galron unvoting instead of crossvoting made me feel better.

[RH9]

I am curious though,

RH9

, are you an alt I'm familiar with? Because I otherwise do not recall playing with you before.

No, I played with Prism and that was how I caught onto Sluaghter Hour. I played with CheekyTeeky and that was how I caight onto Micro 1031. I know Wisdom because he was in Open 324 which numberQ modded. I know Almost50 from Open 833. I know Not_Mafia from Newbie 2081. I know that Galron and Roden were in Newbie 2080 because Thynhith and Val89 mentioned that game in Newbie 2082.

[RH9]

And hopefully, Mafia realises their mistake.

What are you getting at here?

I hope that I caught or catch the Mafia before I get NKed or eliminated.

[Galron]

And hopefully, Mafia realises their mistake.

What are you getting at here?

I hope that I caught or catch the Mafia before I get NKed or eliminated.

I'm not following your thoughts here. Please explain this answer to me.

[Galron]

VOTE: RH9

Those answers are terrible.

[Almost50]

@RH: You've got some explaining to do.. Let me run down the problems I'm having with you (and I won't even try to bring up Gamma. Just your own posts since you replaced in):

1- You started with a TR on Galron & a "shade" on Roden., then you immediately retracted the Roden shade and decided to sheep him unto numberQ.
2 (a)- You liked my 801 but it took you 4 hours to unvote numberQ. Keeping someone @E-1 is way too risky if you're not sure, unless you knew something or was hoping for something.
2 (b)- Now this is how my brain works: If you are scum you knew none of your mates was going to hammer, but you were hoping a townie does.
3- (This one may be just "dislike of playstyle") I dunno what you were doing with all this quoting posts from other games. You could've just said meta from [link], so I find it sus on the grounds you needed to look like you're doing something and posting a LOT. Many players assume if someone is wallposting they're likely Town. I don't.
4- 30 minutes after you had unvoted numberQ you revoted him again. In my book that was your scum buddies telling you to keep the vote in case a townie did decide to cast a vote there.
5- After almost 2 more hours you unvoted, and hoped "Mafia realises their mistake" (I didn't know Aussies used the English spelling)
6- Regarding your vote on Galron, it didn't make sense because -as you guessed- if you SR'd Galron then him picking numberQ over Egix should have lead you to believe Egix was his partner, and there was a wagon already there, so you voting Galron over Egix looked pretty weird to me.
7- Soon after you switched to Egix, which I had no problem with at the time. My problem is you went back to stating a TR on Galron, the guy you had been voting, and without him having done anything AI between the points where you voted him and when you switched. To me this says you were dancing around before you voted Egix because you thought it looks bad for you to switch from Roden to Egix directly.
8- In your very next post; you decided to shade Roden again, but this time it's in a way that Scum you knows you won't have to pursue. "If Egix is Mafia" is a condition I am assuming isn't true, so you won't have to vote Roden after the flip.
9- When you unvote Egix you say you have "nothing against him". What Town players puts someone at E-1 with "nothing against them"??
10- Your response in 876 is "surface level" at best. You assume Mafia will always OMGUS?
11- How does "Mafia realizing their mistake" = you "catching scum before you get NK'd"?? In fact, what bloody mistake did they do when you had replaced in during this day phase?

Based on all above I can't in good conscience vote elsewhere, and I think it would take something BIG for me to unvote you.

VOTE: RH9

[RH9]

Here's Galron as Mafia in Mini Normal 2234.

Roden

, marci and hockeyfan will be

easiest pushes

imo.

See bolded. Galron likes easy pushes as Mafia. Galron is doing a easy push on everybody who messed up.

If I get hammered, don't forget this. At least, Almost50 actually has reasoning. Galron's only reason was the following.

Those answers are terrible.

To be honest, if it can keep Egix96 alive, then I don't mind being the target.

(Sorry, numberQ, for the overaggression. I want to say this before I get hammered.)

[Galron]

You have two votes and you're talking about getting hammered.

[RH9]

Actually, I changed my mind on Egix96. Egix96 mentioned that Roden had a strong scumgame when I confused his scumgame with Prism's and Wisdom's.
VOTE: Egix96

I get a feeling that Egix96 wouldn't have mentioned Roden's scumgame at all if he was Town. (I'm talking about if Egix96 was Town.) I feel like Egix96 seems awfully pockety. And I apologise for realising this earlier. That being said, Roden's lack of posting is giving me Town vibes because Roden is usually very active as Mafia.

[RH9]

You can still eliminate me after Egix96. Remember, always eliminate the pocketers.

[Almost50]

That brings us back to the question of "why didn't Egix lol!hammer numberQ to save himself?". It's 6 v 3 now, and a lol!hammer on the counterwagon would have been a step forward even if it did resolve the "1st Elo" dilemma for us, because Scum have 2 more shots at getting their win anyway.

[Egix96]

Actually, I changed my mind on Egix96. Egix96 mentioned that Roden had a strong scumgame when I confused his scumgame with Prism's and Wisdom's.
VOTE: Egix96

I get a feeling that Egix96 wouldn't have mentioned Roden's scumgame at all if he was Town. (I'm talking about if Egix96 was Town.) I feel like Egix96 seems awfully pockety. And I apologise for realising this earlier. That being said, Roden's lack of posting is giving me Town vibes because Roden is usually very active as Mafia.

Really? I recently played a Newbie game with Roden where he had me fooled pretty much the whole way through.

VOTE: RH9

Not gonna die to this bs.

[Roden]

I don't even know why numberQ is being wagoned. I also notice that Roden and Galron moved there after having been on me. What's the deal with this? And why is N_M already voting (rather than the usual "wait for the lol!hammer")?

Can I do literally anything this game without somebody complaining about it

Like A50 do you think we have any leads whatsoever? Can we genuinely scum read anyone when less than half the players are even posting and literally every single person under pressure just chooses to roll over and die instead of pushing their scum reads? RH9 just got here yet they've added more content than some players who've been here since Day 1.

All I can do is vote and see how people react because literally nothing else is working. I can't even question people without them shutting down or acting like scum hunting is inherently toxic and that I need to stop talking. It took me almost two entire weeks to figure out what the fuck Gamma's read on me was, and even then he just replaced out afterwards anyway so it didn't even matter.

First: I wasn't complaining. I was asking for an explanation, which you seem to have provided in your third paragraph. Maybe you could have typed that one first, but I understand sometimes one feels like letting out some of the mental pressure.

Second: I agree we don't have many leads. However, I still don't know WHY numberQ in particular. Why get the guy to E-1 "just to see what happens"?

Third: Based on #2, why won't you switch your vote to Egix at this time?

NumberQ just got picked because Kyo pushed a scum read there and I wanted to get people talking. I consider it a good move because it got Q talking quite a bit and gave us more to work with in order to read him. His accusation against me that I coordinated a wagon on him in a PT was so reactionary and paranoid that it basically made him town tell.

I didn't switch my vote yet because honestly I kinda just didn't want to play the past couple days. And everyone else was talking a lot so I wanted to see how it would go.

[Roden]

I don't think RH9 is scum just due to the sheer amount of effort he's put in already + Gamma was finally beginning to give me town vibes before he replaced out.

I think I want to boot NM at this point. Egix brought up a good point earlier:

I tried re-reading the game, but it's just bleh. I don't see any reason to vote Egix other than he was the Counterwagon.

I did find one post where A50 was solving.

I'm not understanding why numberQ listed himself as scum in his reads list but I don't know that scum actually does that.

I wasn't real hip on Roden's post about having to force conversation, but

I don't see much reason to scum read him

and I think he came out townie at EOD2.

Redtea I thought might be scum, but I don't think scum loses track of the votes on Gamma Emerald.

I need to figure out where that leaves my POE.

I think the only way we figure this out is if we run some people up, and that's one of the reasons I voted A50.

2. Yeah I think I saw it too.
3. I always thought that was just a joke tbf.
4. Agreed with bolded. Also I think I might be able to clear him for top-posting, since although he did post a lot as scum in my recent Newbie game, he was 5th overall.
5. You don't think they could've just lied about that?
7. Yeah, I'm feeling like this might be one of those situations where we need to yeet a low-content slot in order to prepare for Elo.
Starting with:
VOTE: NotMafia

I'm actually very surprised that he has managed to last this long without being scrutinised despite having so little content.

It's really is weird that he's gone this far with so little attention, plus the weird play of actually trying to push out Q instead of going for the quick hammer. He's playing to elim whoever he can and seeing how long he can get away it.

VOTE: NotMafia

[Taly]

RH9, you came in and mis-labeled Taly as scum in a meta dive, and then said Taly feels different this game when Taly had made just two posts, one asking the best way to catch up and the other a solvey-type post. Then you figure out that Taly wasn't scum in the game you quoted but you don't change direction on Taly.

To be fair, Taly's current posting feels different to that of when he's Mafia.

How can you get a feel for Taly with him posting just twice. Shouldn't you be reading Gamma Emerald, the player that Taly subbed for? Wouldn't that produce better data? And if Taly's posting this game feels different that Slaughter Hour, are you saying that he's mafia this game? And how was Taly's posting to the point where you said he was different when he was mafia different this game anyway?

Didn't Taly replace redtea? But then, looking back, I think that it is just Taly's playstyle and I mislabbeled it. No, I thought that before, but Taly feels quite Town to me. And I thought that Taly would be writing longer but wrote quite less before.

I don't follow what you're saying here doll

I don't think RH9 is scum just due to the sheer amount of effort he's put in already + Gamma was finally beginning to give me town vibes before he replaced out.

I think I want to boot NM at this point. Egix brought up a good point earlier:

I tried re-reading the game, but it's just bleh. I don't see any reason to vote Egix other than he was the Counterwagon.

I did find one post where A50 was solving.

I'm not understanding why numberQ listed himself as scum in his reads list but I don't know that scum actually does that.

I wasn't real hip on Roden's post about having to force conversation, but

I don't see much reason to scum read him

and I think he came out townie at EOD2.

Redtea I thought might be scum, but I don't think scum loses track of the votes on Gamma Emerald.

I need to figure out where that leaves my POE.

I think the only way we figure this out is if we run some people up, and that's one of the reasons I voted A50.

2. Yeah I think I saw it too.
3. I always thought that was just a joke tbf.
4. Agreed with bolded. Also I think I might be able to clear him for top-posting, since although he did post a lot as scum in my recent Newbie game, he was 5th overall.
5. You don't think they could've just lied about that?
7. Yeah, I'm feeling like this might be one of those situations where we need to yeet a low-content slot in order to prepare for Elo.
Starting with:
VOTE: NotMafia

I'm actually very surprised that he has managed to last this long without being scrutinised despite having so little content.

It's really is weird that he's gone this far with so little attention, plus the weird play of actually trying to push out Q instead of going for the quick hammer. He's playing to elim whoever he can and seeing how long he can get away it.

VOTE: NotMafia

I want you to justify 807

[T3]

Votecount:

• Egix96 (3): numberQ, ssbm_Kyouko, RH9
  RH9 (3): Almost50, Galron, Egix96
  Not_Mafia (1): Roden
  numberQ (1): Not_Mafia

I'm doing VC's by hand, please tell me if there are any errors.
Day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-11-28 18:35:01).
With 9 alive it takes 5 to eliminate.

[numberQ]

[snip]

NumberQ just got picked because Kyo pushed a scum read there and I wanted to get people talking. I consider it a good move because it got Q talking quite a bit and gave us more to work with in order to read him. His accusation against me that I coordinated a wagon on him in a PT was so reactionary and paranoid that it basically made him town tell.

I didn't switch my vote yet because honestly I kinda just didn't want to play the past couple days. And everyone else was talking a lot so I wanted to see how it would go.

I don't think it was just paranoia/reaction. Imo the theory is quite sound. Buuuuut it is contingent on Egix being scum, and I'm starting to be convinced that he's not.

UNVOTE: Egix

---

RH9, have you played in many games before? I was looking through your post history and it looks like you've spectated a lot, but I didn't see one where you actually played except for the Newbie on your wiki page. I didn't look through your entire posting history though.

[Taly]

i sleepy

RH9

, why does 885 cross your mind when you're confident

Egix

is scum?

[Taly]

I've yet to feel compelled to vote, but I don't think passivity works this late in the day phase.

My mind goes toward players that were on both mislim wagons but that is a bit void in regard to reading

RH9

. Aside from

Galron

and

A50

pointing out inconsistencies, the initial impression I have felt solid.

I liked what I've skimmed of

Egix

earlier game for not hopping onto two wagons that got close to a lim. They don't feel opportunistic because their doubt in reads is not followed with any clear push on another slot. I do want to hear about the

NM

vote.

NM

is historically difficult for me to read confidently.

Number

has been honest in more than one instance I'd consider scum to have backtracked or reframed their behavior.

With these reads plus

A50

-town being correct, that's 5 of 6 town with both major wagons on them. Since i don't have strong scumreads, I don't know how solid this is as a solve.

Jury is out with

Roden

, and I'm pending with

Galron

, I don't know if tone is a strong method to read them because it feels consistent across the games I've played with him outside experiences with alts.

I read someone mentioning that

Kyouko

was low info and I wonder how honest the WIM is there.

Kyouko

, what are your reads?

Perhaps others prompting me would get my mind active.

[Galron]

What redeeems RH9 Taly?

[RH9]

RH9, have you played in many games before? I was looking through your post history and it looks like you've spectated a lot, but I didn't see one where you actually played except for the Newbie on your wiki page. I didn't look through your entire posting history though.

I only played in one before my Limited Access period begun which was Newbie 2079. Then I spectated Newbie 2081, Open 834, Open 833, and Newbie 2082.

And actually, Egix96's response here feels genuine. Egix96 was just trying to warn me. My bad. I misread his intentions. UNVOTE: Egix96

Really? I recently played a Newbie game with Roden where he had me fooled pretty much the whole way through.

Not gonna die to this bs.

[RH9]

i sleepy

RH9

, why does 885 cross your mind when you're confident

Egix

is scum?

It felt like pocketing but not anymore. I'm not confident anymore.

[Roden]

I don't think RH9 is scum just due to the sheer amount of effort he's put in already + Gamma was finally beginning to give me town vibes before he replaced out.

I think I want to boot NM at this point. Egix brought up a good point earlier:

I tried re-reading the game, but it's just bleh. I don't see any reason to vote Egix other than he was the Counterwagon.

I did find one post where A50 was solving.

I'm not understanding why numberQ listed himself as scum in his reads list but I don't know that scum actually does that.

I wasn't real hip on Roden's post about having to force conversation, but

I don't see much reason to scum read him

and I think he came out townie at EOD2.

Redtea I thought might be scum, but I don't think scum loses track of the votes on Gamma Emerald.

I need to figure out where that leaves my POE.

I think the only way we figure this out is if we run some people up, and that's one of the reasons I voted A50.

2. Yeah I think I saw it too.
3. I always thought that was just a joke tbf.
4. Agreed with bolded. Also I think I might be able to clear him for top-posting, since although he did post a lot as scum in my recent Newbie game, he was 5th overall.
5. You don't think they could've just lied about that?
7. Yeah, I'm feeling like this might be one of those situations where we need to yeet a low-content slot in order to prepare for Elo.
Starting with:
VOTE: NotMafia

I'm actually very surprised that he has managed to last this long without being scrutinised despite having so little content.

It's really is weird that he's gone this far with so little attention, plus the weird play of actually trying to push out Q instead of going for the quick hammer. He's playing to elim whoever he can and seeing how long he can get away it.

VOTE: NotMafia

I want you to justify 807

I did. It was the post right before the one you quoted.

[Roden]

[snip]

NumberQ just got picked because Kyo pushed a scum read there and I wanted to get people talking. I consider it a good move because it got Q talking quite a bit and gave us more to work with in order to read him. His accusation against me that I coordinated a wagon on him in a PT was so reactionary and paranoid that it basically made him town tell.

I didn't switch my vote yet because honestly I kinda just didn't want to play the past couple days. And everyone else was talking a lot so I wanted to see how it would go.

I don't think it was just paranoia/reaction. Imo the theory is quite sound. Buuuuut it is contingent on Egix being scum, and I'm starting to be convinced that he's not.

UNVOTE: Egix

---

RH9, have you played in many games before? I was looking through your post history and it looks like you've spectated a lot, but I didn't see one where you actually played except for the Newbie on your wiki page. I didn't look through your entire posting history though.

Maybe it's just my perspective, but I just don't see the alleged coordination. We both just voted, I don't think discussing that in a PT beforehand is really required for that.