In post 5962, Milobird wrote:Notty thinks Mastina's role fits another scum player's role. Rather it compliments it. He'll have to explain it himself.
Notty can fuck off when it comes to this.
Role-wise I'm not going to say it's
impossible
for my role to be scum. It's definitely
possible
.
Creating a backup of a town role could be fairly strong if the town role is one scum could use.
But more than that, scum using one of their abilities on me could turn me into a 1x backup of their role.
Now, granted--there's a really damn confusing interaction that basically makes no sense if it were real, and that's Gypyx's role with my role.
In post 1869, May and Brendan wrote: The user uses a move from the field.
◓ Once at night you may use one of your living or dead teammates move.
◓ If their move has a gated amount of uses, you will use one of their shots.
◓ You may not use a move that's uses have been depleted.
◓ You may not use one of your teammates moves the same night they are using the same move.
◓ When taking a passive move, your teammate loses any of its effects for the night of use.
If my role is real, how would Gypyx's interaction work with my role? Using my role would consume my shot, but using my role would be targeting me. Yet Gypyx can't get a copy of a move that's depleted. My role is a passive role, too, so it's a move that is simultaneously used every night, and yet no night. How would my role be classified in relationship to Gypyx's?
And then, even if I am targeted by someone and copy their move, would Mirror Move allow Gypyx to basically steal that move even though it wasn't technically my move? It's a move I copied, not a move I originally had.
These are interactions that the mod could have answers for, and if I was scum, there would be answers for them--but these are things that never got asked/addressed/etc. because there was no need...thanks to me not being scum with Gypyx.
Now, granted. You
could
argue that either scum were just so apathetic/detached/out of the game that they didn't notice, or that they did and the answers are in the scum PT and nobody shared them due to them being from the scum PT, but those add extra layers to require me to be scum, and doesn't cover the far more basic problem;
My role would be redundant with Gypyx's as Gypyx's is a better version of my role. My role requires me to be targeted by the scum player to create the copy of the move. Gypyx's can be done without being targeted and can be done even if the scum player in question is dead.
But there's more to it than that.
In post 6057, mastina wrote: In post 5967, Milobird wrote:what do you think of Mastina using self-meta, I.e., they aren't very blame gamey as scum compared to as town mid game. Because they don't want to offend town and get exasperation voted?
Like, how likely is it that scum them makes that argument? It really doesn't feel very implausible to me. I would make similar arguments if I were pushed as scum. Or at least I think I would. If my scum game didn't suck.
I am not you. I am mastina. I operate by my own principles, rules, standards, thought processes, etc. The way I think, though not standard, is very well documented, and frankly?
Notty should remember the LAST time that I was accused of faking rage.
(Hint: I wasn't. Double hint: I was town. Triple hint, it technically wasn't the latest time I've raged as town, but it IS among the most infamous times I've raged as town. There's damn good reason that I am saying notty can fuck off, because notty SHOULD know fucking better.)
This is a search of all the games I've played in the Micro, Mini Theme, and Large Theme forums.
The last time I was accused of faking rage was
in this game. (As a reminder: I
ate a ban
from that game--not fake. Also not scum. I was town.) It is not actually the game that notty would be familiar with.
Honorable mention:
MBOS 4 I ate a warning. Not a ban but also not fake. And also not scum; I was town. I don't expect notty to be familiar with it tho.
I was also accused of faking rage in
this game as well. I was town. But that's not the game notty should know I don't fucking fake rage from.
The most infamous example of me being accused of raging as scum?
Tales of You.
I refuse to believe that notty has forgotten one of the most infamous fucking games of all time. It's literally one of THE most iconic (in many bad ways) mafia games OF ALL TIME.
Did notty erase the memory of the town's incompetence that notty contributed to by eliminating the players with the highest read accuracy, myself included, that game?
Because I sure as fuck remember it.
The rage very much was there.
And very much was real.
And very much from town.
The closest I've ever gotten to raging as scum I'm pretty sure was
Anything (fucking) Goes, and that was entirely different in tone, nature, etc. and largely with the help of my hydra buddy who was doing the VAST majority of the posting that game. Like, maybe 5% of the hydra's posts were mine? But it was mostly Katsuki.
Do you know what the biggest tell on my bloody flowchart is? The tell that is, above all tells, the tell that has the
absolute highest accuracy rate
of ANY of
the items on the flowchart listed here?
It's quite literally, scumastina cannot rage, but town mastina can and does, to a dangerous, I-never-know-if-I-might-eat-a-game-ban levels of vitriol.
the flowchart wrote:she insults people more as town (increasing the strength of related towntells), and she rages more as town (increasing the strength of that towntell)
I've explained the reasons for this across multiple games. I can track it down both as scum and town and in Mafia Discussion, but it's more than just
my philosophy on playing scum involves "don't make enemies. You need the town to like you, because push come to shove if the choices are to eliminate a player people like versus eliminate a player people have issues with, they'll usually take the latter". It's more than that being the optimal play. It's more than just thinking that scum need to manipulate the town into being their allies, rather than antagonize them and make them enemies.
While that's all true, there's a bigger reason I cannot rage as scum.
Fuck theory.
I can subvert theory all I want.
The reason I can't rage as scum is because
I fundamentally cannot think that way as scum
.
How can I be angry at the town being correct on me?
I can, and do, get mad at players being "Right, For the Wrong Reasons".
It'd take some time to find, but I can track down being angry at players being right in their read but wrong in the reason and me being scum in that game.
Because that's genuine anger at a very real cause: an attack on the very principles I operate on.
For instance, saying I'd lie about real life circumstances to gain an advantage as scum (which people have done to me) is tantamount to outright accusing me of cheating, of lying, of being a rl scumbag, of going against the very things I stand for as a person and a player. It is questioning my integrity as an individual, it is doubting my principles and accusing me of being in violation of them.
Because I have VERY strong principles I operate on. These are not trust tells because they apply regardless of alignment. These are things that I fundamentally operate on as beyond just being a player, but being a person. A core aspect of my character. I have my own set of rules and regulations and principles. They largely align with the site, but I have some rules the site does not. (And at times, have violated rules that aren't violations to me but which the site considers to be.)
That
I can do.
But being accused of being scum for reasons that I know are more right than wrong or outright correct?
I literally
cannot
manage to be angry at that. After all--it's an accusation I know is right. It's an accusation that I see where they're coming from, know why they are seeing it, and while it can be frustrating that they are right, they're still RIGHT, I KNOW they're right, and
cannot
get angry at them.
I also cannot really get mad at the town for mislimming a townread of mine when I am scum--unless said town goes on to violate my principles, at least. Showing disrespect to the dead, blaming the dead exclusively and saying it's entirely their fault, etc. Things like that, I can get mad at the town for because it's genuinely honestly fucking disgusting.
But if the town
isn't
violating my principles with a mislim.
I can't get angry at it.
Because, again, as scum, I am genuinely more in the mindset of, "Girls Giggles Genocide". (Again, don't expect any living player to get that reference, but Gamma Emerald should.)
Which is, to say: I laugh my ass off as scum.
I might loathe drawing scum, but I still have a blast in it. I HATE being scum, but I still make the most out of being scum by basically hamming it up and loving the grandiose nature of having all the info and watching the town eat itself alive because they don't. Like the Among Us players the term originates from, as scum, I love playing the part of the villain, watching the town accuse each other, and laughing at the events going on with my extra knowledge.
So how can I get angry at the town furthering my own wincon? Town eliminating town is literally helping me.
I fundamentally
cannot
be genuinely angry, nor can I fake rage.
But I can go even further in showing why I am not scum.
If I am scum, there's two optimal usages of my role.
1: Not announcing it at all, and then having a scumbuddy silently target me with an ability to make me a backup of the scum with that ability, so that it catches the town off-guard.
2: Announcing it deliberately, and then avoiding having scum target me at all, hoping to pick up a useful town ability.
Neither strategy is necessarily more optimal than the other, but the two above are mutually exclusive. If you do one, you cannot do the other and have it be optimal; mixing the two is literally the
worst
thing you can do.
That said, option #1 is imo slightly stronger and more optimal.
You can argue that, me being mastina, I opted for option #2. I either didn't think of option #1 until after the fact, or considered option #2 to be better for towncred.
But then that runs into a problem: Dwlee targeted me N1.
Mixing town and scum targeting me is the exact worst possible combo, because it means I don't get a guaranteed copy of the scum role and the scum role that
should
be used elsewhere is being wasted on me instead of on others. Especially with certain town/scum role combos.
At this stage, for me to be scum, you need a lot of Coulds already to add up:
I COULD be a redundant scum role, when Gypyx's is a better version of mine.
I COULD have a role that has the really weird interactions with Gypyx's role while on the same team as Gypyx.
I COULD have the answers to these interactions in the scum PT and/or I COULD have been apathetic enough to have never asked about the interaction (in spite of it being mandatory for the mod, unless you want to argue that the mod COULD have not thought about the interaction and thus needed to improvise).
I COULD have not realized the optimal strategy was not claiming and/or I COULD have decided that the second strategy was overall more worth it.
I COULD have then had my entire scumteam not realize mixing the two strategies is the worst possible idea and that we needed to commit to one or the other and not mix-and-match. It COULD happen, in spite of the scumteam having imaginality (mechanics-focused), Gypyx (not a slouch on mechanics), me (very good at mechanics), and Woolax (decent at mechanics).
But then we get into D1.
I COULD have had an abnormal readslist for scumastina. (I have more to say about that, it was something I half-wrote but am probably going to save for a different post on a different day due to how much time this is taking and my tiredness levels.)
I COULD have had no scum north of null at all, and soft-distanced from the scum.
In post 1573, mastina wrote:For the record: I support the Woolax wagon and am incredibly tempted to vote there as I think the slot is scum.
But I kinda just wanna keep my vanity vote on SirCakez right now just as a statement that, no, I'm not joking with my scumread there; yes, I am serious; yes I think he is scum; yes I want to eliminate him.
But while that's all true, Woolax is also probably just scum so isn't a bad vote. In fact is explicitly a good vote that I support.
If the Woolax wagon were to die down in fact, I WOULD switch my vote there just to make sure it DIDN'T because I don't think the Woolax wagon SHOULD die down, I legit think that the Woolax wagon is probably the best wagon we can get today.
I'm just being stubborn and feel like my vote is best used elsewhere right now.
I COULD make this post as scum, as a way of distancing on Woolax without committing to the bus on them.
I should note however that while it'd take me time to locate, I've made this post in many many towngames of mine but absolutely ZERO scumgames of mine.
I COULD have this as my first scumgame where I used this tactic.
In post 3469, mastina wrote:How about we
don't
vote the player who I think is so conftown that if someone claimed a guilty on them I'd vote the person claiming the guilty?
Dwlee's my strongest townread.
I COULD make this post as scum to hard-commit to defending my scumbuddy, in spite of the guilty on them.
I COULD make this statement as scum in spite of it being
another
statement I've said in multiple towngames (again, could track down, but would take some time) yet never have said in any scumgame ever.
I COULD genuinely try to save my scumbuddy there.
I COULD have set up the interactions where I fake soft-picking up on Dwlee's role/actions.
I COULD fake not knowing that Dwlee wasn't the role I got, and/or genuinely make the mistake of not realizing it wasn't Dwlee's action I got.
I COULD retract my defense of Dwlee and hard-commit to the bus after it was clear that Dwlee was in fact guilty.
I COULD have pushed imaginality before there was pressure on imaginality.
I COULD have pushed imaginality on POE instead of more damning aspects.
I COULD have pushed imaginality on the Pooky push from him, instead of the shit roleclaim.
I COULD have faked not noticing his roleclaim. Or I COULD have genuinely not noticed it.
I COULD have then, after seeing things, not tried to save imaginality and backed up the town eliminating there.
And there's another thing:
In post 2089, mastina wrote:Callout:
What the fuck, guys.
Unless the mods failed to notify me (I did ask them about this to be sure), literally nobody targeted me? Like. I literally TOLD y'all that I can duplicate a power if targeted by it. But as far as I can tell, literally nobody did.
Y'all are Dragon Tails / Circle Throwers / Whirlwinds in reverse. (I hope the intended meaning comes through.) I wasn't lying about my role so I do mean it; you SHOULD be targeting me if you have a strong role.
(That said, I suppose it's possible Gypyx targeted me and his role prevents me from using my role but oh well, only the mods know.)
I COULD have genuinely not received the info as scum that I should have received, but more than that, check out the bolded.
Story time: I was skimming the flips. I wasn't on my phone but I think that I was in a rush?
I actually thought Gypyx had flipped town at first.
I initially read Gypyx's flip as being a member of the town.
I didn't realize that Gypyx was a member of Team Rocket, so I read his role and I thought he was town with it when I made this post.
No, seriously.
Nobody noticed this the entire game apparently. I was expecting with us being down to one scum or so for someone to look at this and go "did mastina scumslip here by mentioning Gypyx interacting with her role when Gypyx was scum and his role couldn't interact with town?". But actually it's the opposite; I genuinely townslipped here hard by having initially misread Gypyx's flip as being town. I was confused when people mentioned Gypyx being a good Vig because I legit initially thought that Gypyx was a town modified UB, and it wasn't until some time later that I went back to reread and realized I had misread and that Gypyx was scum, not town, as I had initially mistakenly thought.
So I COULD be scum who is bullshitting this townslip.
I COULD be scum who genuinely scumslipped there.
And beyond that.
I COULD have
executed on my "when everyone looks town, SOMEONE needs to not be town" philosophy--but I will say that I've had dozens of towngames where I have pushed that philosophy and pushed eliminations based off of it (including on big town players like Battle Mage and Lady Lambdadelta--probably most infamously, Team Mafia 2021 this year had me espousing this philosophy on D1)...
...And I've never once pushed for an elimination based off of that philosophy as scum.
"But wait, mastina...didn't you use it in Chrono Trigger?"
Well, actually--no. I didn't. I
outlined
my philosophy there. I laid out the actual methods I use as town--but if you read the game,
I didn't push anyone using that philosophy. I MENTIONED the philosophy. I OUTLINED the philosophy. To this day, that game is actually probably the best explanation of what boils down to "everyone looks town, but SOMEONE needs to not be, so treat it appropriately and doubt all the town" basically. But while I
explained
the philosophy, I never
used
it that game.
This game COULD be the first scumgame that I did so.
And that's aside from the additional things I've gone into since then.
I COULD have had an insane boost in my postcount compared to my normal scumgame.
I COULD have phoneposted at work in spite of the fact that I never have done so as scum before.
I COULD have somehow faked rage. (Well no, not really, I really can't.)
I COULD have magically somehow upped the quality of my scumgame, to have it be higher than even peak scumastina performance levels, in spite of the fact that I've been in a scum slump for literally three years.
And this is probably not even all of the COULDs.
I've probably got more things that I could point out that are town-me and not scumastina, which add to the list of COULDs.
But how many COULDs does it take you before you begin to realize that any theory with me as scum is a violation of Occam's Razor never before seen in its absurdity? (Well aside from maybe the absurd accusations of me being scum in games like the two Jingle games because those were equally horseshit Occam's Razor violations.)
One or two COULDs could be true.
But how many COULDs does it take before the 'could' becomes 'basically impossible'? I counted ~30-35 COULDs added up in the above.
So how many COULDs does it take to clear me from being scum?
