DkKoba's Mini Normal Review, November 2021

[implosion]

As per my in to mod a mini normal here is the setup to review:

Ascetic Mason Encryptor
Mason Combined Vigilante Doctor
Ascetic Mason
Miller
Complex 2 shot JOAT (mailman, gunsmith, detective)
VTx5

Informed Ascetic Bulletproof Mafia (informed of Complex JOAT)
2 Shot Mafia Rolecop
Mafia Backup 1 shot Complex JOAT(Mailman, Gunsmith, Detective)

[implosion]

Primary: Something_Smart
Secondary: Datisi

[Something_Smart]

Ego

Implosion, is this the right way to do a backup JOAT? I wasn't totally sure.

[Datisi]

ego

about to sleep so will actually process this in the morning

[implosion]

Mafia Backup 1 shot Complex JOAT(Mailman, Gunsmith, Detective)

I believe this role will actually only take over for a 1-shot complex joat; if you want this role to backup the joat in this setup, its name needs to be changed to 1-shot backup complex JOAT.

In general though yeah a backup joat should just become that kind of joat when the original one dies, and yes it should work this way (you can't have a "backup JOAT" as a role, because "JOAT" without specifying any of its powers is not a valid role).

[DkKoba]

Ego

[Datisi]

ok, this sure is A Setup

so, the three masons are obviously confirmed town. the town complex joat can only get results on 1 mason, 2 mafia, or the miller. by far, the strongest of the abilities is gunsmith (since scum can just have their ascetic buddy making the kill, therefore detective won't be able to get a guilty), but the gunsmith can get a guilty on the mason. the mafia's power seems fine in response, i like that they're informed of the joat. though noted that they don't have daytalk. (also i find it amusing how the vig-doc mason can kill their own partners.)

a potential problem i'm seeing with the setup is the following (imho not unlikely) sequence: miller claims at the start of day 1 > complex joat uses the gunsmith on the miller > gets a no-gun > treats that as a clear. town having 3 masons is already decently strong, and this is a potential of 1-2 additional confirmed townies.

what is the purpose of the miller in the setup in the first place?

[DkKoba]

Oh shit i forgot to include a scum as encryptor too

Also noted about miller i kinda wanted it in there as "anti setup gaming" but that encourages a certain play

[Datisi]

are the encryptors deliberate or have you forgotten you can just enable global daytalk?

[DkKoba]

Deliberate

[DkKoba]

Ascetic Mason Encryptor
Mason Combined Vigilante Doctor
Ascetic Mason
Complex 2 shot JOAT (Mailman, Gunsmith, Detective)
VTx6

Informed Ascetic Bulletproof Encryptor (informed of Complex JOAT)
Mafia 2 Shot Rolecop
Mafia 1 Shot Backup Complex JOAT(Mailman, Gunsmith, Detective)

i think this is a bit scumsided ( which i am fine with)
but within reasonable balance

[DkKoba]

i cant wait to write the role PM for the Informed Ascetic Bulletproof Encryptor

[Datisi]

i don't have any other concerns, so the setup in 10 seems fine to me.

[Something_Smart]

I will weigh in later tonight. Bug me on discord if I don't.

[DkKoba]

bump

[Something_Smart]

I don't think it's scumsided, for one. With 3 masons, any successful action from the JOAT is pretty much a guilty. Given the ascetics the mafia PR's aren't all that useful; and honestly it feels like scum are being set up to claim backup JOAT which is probably just a scumclaim.

[DkKoba]

how about

replacing the regular mason with a different PR/ perhaps an ascetic townie?

also rolecopping a VT is useful info for scum IMO as a scum player - it shows a safe place to push.

[Something_Smart]

I guess... scum are usually pretty happy to out a PR, especially with masons.

I wonder if this could be one of those games where the scumteam just knows the full setup.

[Datisi]

With 3 masons, any successful action from the JOAT is pretty much a guilty.

this did not occur to me at all, good point.

scum knowing the full setup seems like a reasonable move here? it's a decent buff to the rolecop as well, but it might as well be needed.

[DkKoba]

hey u dont need to ask me twice to scumside a setup

[DkKoba]

do I inform the town that scum are aware of the whole setup or?

[Datisi]

as someone who once got utterly fucked by scum's smart fakeclaim because they knew i was a mason and i didn't know that they knew, the answer is yes but s_s is probably the smarter and more objective person to answer that.

[DkKoba]

Alternatively informing about 2 PRs existing that are Ascetic is an option
Which gives them the same info without explicitly giving them the masonry

[Something_Smart]

If you tell them the whole setup you should make that public knowledge yeah.

Informing about 2 ascetic PR's is probably also fine. That doesn't necessarily fix the backup JOAT scumclaiming issue though.

[DkKoba]

well thats up to the players but i dont think its a scumclaim myself esp since its a 2 shot -> 1 shot + its a "false positive" explaination.

If the setup is fine with backup joat the way it is id like to keep it and leave the way the role is handled up to scum skill