Open 837: Cop Killer - Endgame

[Pavowski]

Aaaand pagetopped, yeet

[Not_Mafia]

VC 1.05

Galron (1)-

Auro

Enchant (0)-

Pavowski (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Roden (4)-

GuiltyLion, LicketyQuickety, DArby, Salsabil Faria

Bingle (0)-

LicketyQuickety (1)-

Roden

GuiltyLion (1)-

Bingle

Salsabil Faria (3)-

T3, mc esther, Pavowski

DArby (1)-

Enchant

Auro (0)-

mc esther (0)-

T3 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Galron, Almost50
With

13

alive, it takes

7

to instantly eliminate.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2021-12-07 10:00:00)

- Dec 7th 10:00 GMT

[GuiltyLion]

Where is the GL townfire? Where is the grabbing the thread by the horns? Where is the three page analysis of whether Bingle actually says he hammer his partner for the loss that you freak out about two pages later and completely drop?

I'm satisfied that I understand where your suspicions are coming from now, but I promise you will see that townfire once I have reads I feel it's worth bringing the heat for

Y/N this is an angle of investigation you actively believe results in a roden lim and not a preliminary push looking to gauge reactions.

is "preliminary push looking to gauge reactions" what you meant by "shitpush"? I thought it meant more along the lines of pushing someone for bad or easily refutable reasons. I don't think I subscribe to this dichotomy in this question - I want more reads/participation from everybody and to feel better about my overall reads and limpool before championing a lim on anyone, but I do think my points against Roden and his defensive responses were valid for early game pressure and I have not yet felt town vibes from anything he's posted.

[Pavowski]

First "Dictatorian" Declaration:

I; King of thread and ruler of both Town & Mafia alike; have decided in all my mighty grace to request order all of my subjects and minions to each provide a 3-players list of their top TRs (NOT including self).

This is actually hard, the game's not deep enough for me to feel good about any of my reads yet. I'll try though. I had some last night but I want to reevaluate if the monkey king isn't gonna let me change

[GuiltyLion]

I; King of thread and ruler of both Town & Mafia alike; have decided in all my mighty grace to request order all of my subjects and minions to each provide a 3-players list of their top TRs (NOT including self).

DArby
Galron
Pav

^ these three feel the most pure / agendaless to me

LQ and Mc Esther get honorary mentions in that I definitely feel mindmeld with a lot of their takes and don't doubt the sincerity in most of what they've posted, however, with these two more than the three above TRs I could imagine them being scum tapping into authentic reasoning to scumhunt for the other faction. I can't really explain/distinguish between that and town, and I don't want to lim them today, it's just a vibe thing in conjunction with me being cognizant that there's 4 scum and I'm probably townreading scum when I shouldn't somewhere.

Bingle and Auro in a "I guess I like what they've posted overall so far but it's not unfakeable" tier

everyone else (Roden/T3/Enchant/Salsa) I haven't felt any townpings from yet and I'm pretty content with dueling Roden/Salsa wagons as those two have actively pinged me as disingenuous moreso than T3/Enchant

[T3]

I feel bored, so I may decide to actually play this game seriously. (Sorry for those this may disappoint)

OK..

First "Dictatorian" Declaration:

I; King of thread and ruler of both Town & Mafia alike; have decided in all my mighty grace to

request

order all of my subjects and minions to each provide a 3-players list of their top TRs (NOT including self).

- You have 24 hours to comply.
- Once submitted you cannot alter your choices.

In no particular order:

Pav

Bingle/LQ

GL

@Enchant

, what's up?

Everything cool.

How you?

Tired af irl, kind of lost in this game.

By inspiring from

LQ

's point:

UNVOTE: Enchant

VOTE: Roden

you're just trying to save yourself.
i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

[Auro]

Town: {Bingle, LQ, Darby}.

Agree with Bingle's takes on GL around page 16.

I don't share the scumread on Salsa yet.

[Auro]

^ these three feel the most pure / agendaless to me

Walk me through your Galron read, I can't see it? Like sure, some of his questions are "pro-town", but what makes them likelier to come from town!Galron?

[Auro]

guiltylion seems by far the most obviously pro-town player, both for his early-game contributions and for his more recent attempt at understanding the thread.

Similar question to Esther: do you believe that scum!GL wouldn't have posted pro-town content as he did so far?

[Auro]

VOTE: Roden

[LicketyQuickety]

instantly eliminate.

Did anyone else see this and sort of chuckle to themselves?

[mc esther]

Similar question to Esther: do you believe that scum!GL wouldn't have posted pro-town content as he did so far?

early game, fair question. to some extent, i cant know, and that's what makes online mafia so difficult. it'd be a very weak towntell if it stopped there.

my one main salient takeaway from the LQ/Roden bit is that both are making dubious claims on one particular front

Roden in 205 asks LQ if LQ thinks Roden "purposefully puts himself in this situation as scum". Again I think Roden is questionably taking credit for something that I feel I'm responsible for (early wagon/pressure on Roden). The logic of "why would I get wagoned as scum" isn't easy to understand from either a town/scum perspective, it's not clear what Roden specifically thinks that he did to get himself wagoned and whether that was intentional. However I have seen both alignments make the "I wouldn't be wagoned if I were scum here" claim, it's not something I feel comfortable reasoning about as AI but I certainly don't townread it, at best it's WIFOMy.

However, Roden has a point in 209 that LQ agreeing that scum!Roden might indeed intentionally "put himself in this situation" is also a bad take. Scum do not love early scrutiny, in almost any circumstance. I don't see LQ's logic in implying that this COULD be a scum plan - again, how and where did Roden even intentionally invite pressure on himself? Whatever Roden's alignment is, I'm sure he'd rather not be voted and rather not have to argue with people voting him.

I can see what LQ is saying in that LQ just kinda went along with an idea (being intentionally wagoned) that Roden put out there, but it's just such bad reasoning on both sides ("if I were scum, I wouldn't be wagoned") ("no, if you were scum, this might be your plan!!") that I'm having a hard time parsing why either player is taking any of the logic seriously.

posts like this are the ones that have me going "scum dont have to do this and im really not sure they want to". the evidence in-thread is that nobody wants to make these posts! it pings town over scum to me because i think it disproportionately benefits scum to leave those pages as much a black hole as possible. clarifying the general thrust of the argument and giving interpretations seems to be hurt the mafia's, idk, "abstract wincon" (a low-information gamestate) way beyond any towncred it might be worth; it would cost literally nothing to just, refuse to make any attempt.

[mc esther]

the scumread on guiltylion is basically meta, right? like, bingle posted a theory disagreement with gl, but a key part of what makes that disagreement a scumread for him is "and don’t think GL believes it either" (which later seems to dissolve into an argument as to whether or not roden was getting "shitpushed").

[mc esther]

roden's up on 48 hours btw. if it takes another two 48-hour prods to have him replaced, we won't have anyone in that slot until three days before deadline. i dont really know what to make of this information, just drawing it to the attention of someone with stronger opinions on deadline management than me.

[Pavowski]

First "Dictatorian" Declaration:

I; King of thread and ruler of both Town & Mafia alike; have decided in all my mighty grace to request order all of my subjects and minions to each provide a 3-players list of their top TRs (NOT including self).

This is actually hard, the game's not deep enough for me to feel good about any of my reads yet. I'll try though. I had some last night but I want to reevaluate if the monkey king isn't gonna let me change

This is me trying (and how dare you make me effort on d1, monkey man)

GL and Mc are both being proactive and solvy and even a little bit aggressive in a way that I don't think benefits scum so I feel pretty good listing them as townreads right now.

I could also join the crew and say DArby feels town, but that'd be boring so I'll go out on a limb and trust my gut read on Auro from earlier.

There, that's my three.

[Pavowski]

I would also go as far as to say that if we should flip GL, and he turns town, that would be scum indicative on Bingle given the recent shade. But I also kinda don't think GL is likely to get flipped. A NK'd GL would be another story.

[Pavowski]

roden's up on 48 hours btw. if it takes another two 48-hour prods to have him replaced, we won't have anyone in that slot until three days before deadline. i dont really know what to make of this information, just drawing it to the attention of someone with stronger opinions on deadline management than me.

Also also, I can't put my finger on why but I just can't see this post coming from scum.

[Pavowski]

Also also also, I have to remind myself this is multiball, and my first multiball at that, so I am offering large doses of salt with everything I say and think here

[Pavowski]

(No, I am not winding up to yeet another pagetop)

[Salsabil Faria]

i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

Yes, I'm trying to save myself here, why it is a scummy thing to do?

If you're suggesting scum!me trying to save myself here by miseliminating town!

Town

, can you tell me why you townread

Roden

? Cause I can't remember of you saying that.

And I'm voting

Roden

because I like this point of

LQ

's which didn't came to my mind and I also see scums to do that:

But at this point my SR on Roden grew stronger when they ditched the thread which I am reading as them doing so so that the votes start to fall off them.

i'll be honest i haven't even noticed that roden was being cased

Hmm... I think you rolled scum but I can't prove because it's based on vibe.

[Salsabil Faria]

A NK'd GL would be another story.

What do you mean by that?

[Salsabil Faria]

22

[Salsabil Faria]

23

[Salsabil Faria]

24

[Salsabil Faria]

25