Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[VP Baltar]

i also don't think ico camps on a buddy, so i think that's +town for toog

why not camp on a buddy with a wagon that's not really going anywhere despite my best efforts?

uh i recall more of your efforts day1 being on SA?

and that was ico's one and only push basically, you're trying to tell me taht his only push of the game was on a buddy?

~ skitter

I pushed Dunn very hard for a good chunk of the day, but people wouldn't listen to me on a semi-meta based argument.

As far as Ico, I can't speak to what he would do, but it's also not like he found his footing this game. I don't think it's that crazy of a possibility. It's all speculation either way you look at it unfortunately.

[VP Baltar]

what's the point of asking me about having basically the same reaction to the same post that you did

you're basically criticizing my 2007 when your 1996 has the exact same sentiment for the same reasons based on the same post ...

~ skitter

I'm criticizing you?

[Fun and Games]

As far as Ico, I can't speak to what he would do, but it's also not like he found his footing this game. I don't think it's that crazy of a possibility. It's all speculation either way you look at it unfortunately.

i mean it isn't impossible, but, like i would be p surprised

like i said we were p confident that he was flipping scum

After the hammer, what made you confident he was flipping red though?

maybe criticize is the wrong word but you're adding some oomph to SA's assertion that we were overconfident r.e. ico's flip with this and i'm pointing out that you had literally the same reaction we did so not sure why you're asking this

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

maybe criticize is the wrong word but you're adding some oomph to SA's assertion that we were overconfident r.e. ico's flip with this and i'm pointing out that you had literally the same reaction we did so not sure why you're asking this

I'm asking so I can understand your thought process, as it's not clear in 2007 why you stated optimism about the flip. So you're saying you saw the post I commented on as a possible scum slip and that's what gave you the confidence?

[Fun and Games]

i got the confidence from darby failing to claim + 1995

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

Hella quiet on opinions from people who are not me and F&G

[Sleepless Assassin]

I dunno. I felt like VP was equally confident on Gamma so I wasn't really thinking anything of it. I went back and Skitter sounded confident Gamma was flipping scum too. So I'm starting to think there's not anything to all that.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

[VP Baltar]

Based on the combined associatives from both slots

Got some examples you can point to?

[Sleepless Assassin]

For what it's worth Iconeums first vote is on VP asking if he's scum which is a weird position to put a buddy in so early. But...

Would it be wrong to townblock Datisi/Icon/VP already?

do you have any particular reasoning behind these 3 names?

Isn't this weird knowing Iconeum was scum, Datisi was town, and Iconeum was voting VP? I wish I'd asked Iconeum why he wanted to know this.

But overall it looks like he's treating Datisi and VP similarly in his ISO and Datisi was town. Just lightly implying they are for sure scum. Not sure how to describe it. But I don't see the differences you'd expect between a town player and buddy. It's like he sees them interchangeably.

yes but you see little glimmers of towniness eventually when he is town

just gotta give it some time

has there ever been a game where the 2 of you don't scumread me? ever?

This seems like legitimate annoyance at a real read. I do have to admit 927 gives me weird vibes though. Like trying to get Friends and Games a little town cred on a Datisi town flip where Datisi would get nothing from a Friend's and Games scum flip. I don't see why you'd say this about two townies as scum unless it's to duplicate town play which I don't feel Iconeum was doing a whole lot of.

---------

516 517 518 519520 is a string that feels like opportunistic shade at Dunn and Enchant, implying those slots are town. I'm not confirmation biasing, right? Does that like that way to everyone else?

Townie
A50 prob town, really reading like his previous game recently
SirC
Bingle

Varying degrees of nullishness
Datisi
Not_Maf
SA
Enchant

Scummy
Dunn
GE
VP
Fun and Games

Oh yeah the reads list. I noted that he forgot Penguin. It's hard for scum to forget partners and I can't see him leaving off a buddy on purpose. Andante is probably town. Bingle in the townie pile with two dead town means he either listed all town there or Bingle is the buddy he put an obvtown read on. Not_Mafia and Enchant on the null list are a good place to look too. Interesting that he threw shade on Enchant just to list him as null. I've town read Enchant all game but I can see that being buddy interaction. Meh he follows up on Bingle a couple posts later and doesn't seem to overjustify. Maybe its just Not_Mafia and Enchant?

I'll look at Darby another time but from Iconeum, associatives point to Not_Mafia and Enchant and away from VP, Andante and Dunn. Hard to tell on Friends and Games and Bingle.

Preview edit:
Lol the timing Toog

[Toogeloo]

Based on the combined associatives from both slots

Got some examples you can point to?

I hated it in school when teachers told me to show my work too, lol. I'm not going to effort that much, but I pointed you in the direction. You can either trust me or go look for yourself.

[VP Baltar]

Based on the combined associatives from both slots

Got some examples you can point to?

I hated it in school when teachers told me to show my work too, lol. I'm not going to effort that much, but I pointed you in the direction. You can either trust me or go look for yourself.

You can just tell me. That's pretty low effort, right? No quoting required.

[Enchant]

Hm.

I actually hammer more often than not (link i included before are not exception).

[Enchant]

Btw game ended and i can say, Gamma selfvoted (you all stupid included) as scum in game not so ago, so it was really throwed me off, because i did townread this before flip.
And then i died. Yeah...

Seems like it's simple Gamma thing, but it's late to regrets.

[VP Baltar]

Btw game ended and i can say, Gamma selfvoted (you all stupid included) as scum in game not so ago, so it was really throwed me off, because i did townread this before flip.
And then i died. Yeah...

Seems like it's simple Gamma thing, but it's late to regrets.

Link?

[Enchant]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88151

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88151

Ok, just for reference, that's not really the same thing. Gamma self hammers as scum in that game...which is a valid play to shut down discussion if you think you're absolutely going to be yeeted that day. That's different than self voting as town out of frustration, as happened this game.

And that game does show town-Enchant hammering. Need to read the context and see how comparable that is to this game.

[Enchant]

If you really have nothing else to do, i can give you list of my all games.

I say instantly, "yes i could hammer here like that as mafia", as there's some games where i quickhammered teammates and rided on this for the end. So you can as well not waste time on this, as it doesh't prove anything.

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

You suggesting scum don't hammer partners or miselims?

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

It's the way ico and darby handled Enchant.

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I'm not sure how else to tell you that the associatives between both parts of the flipped scum fell like they indicate Enchant as a partner than an adversary.

[Enchant]

I was townreaded because it was popular.

THAT'S HOW TOWN WORKS.

[VP Baltar]

I was townreaded because it was popular.

THAT'S HOW TOWN WORKS.

Who do you think is scum today?

[Dwlee99]

I could see enchant scum here because he did lol hammer his buddy in white flag

Toog do you have non associatives