Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Andante]

ok so I’m mobile, can talk more later, basically I didn’t expect gamma to flip green at all, I SRed Darby for the Gamma read, so I guess I just got lucky there, as soon as I saw the green flip I was like, “nahhh this is a joke. has to be” checked back later, it wasn’t a joke. and have instantly gotten super nervous about my strong TR with skitter and pooky... won’t vote them out today, just nervous.

I think it’s weird VP is asking about why I called them town yesterday, like VP was THERE, didn’t think to ask then?? now it’s like, are you trying to set something up to push me?

[Fun and Games]

Fun and Games was all "A50 has to be town" the only one who really saw the momentum flip, I see no reason scum would leave skitter and pooky alive here either, those 2 are strong players individually, and now they are 1. Fun and Games is 10000% flipping scum

Hello i need more of an explanation for how you went from mindmeld yesterday to this

~ skitter

@andante when u have a chance plz

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Enchant

This is scum. I did an iso dive of ico and darby on Night 1 (and Night 2, thanks guys!). Based on the combined associatives from both slots, I am like 90% confident Enchant is scum here.

Why did scum-enchant hammer both darby and gamma?

~ skitter

You suggesting scum don't hammer partners or miselims?

No, i'm saying i sont think the way enchant did it is scum-indicative, and i think this post is somewhat straw-manning-y

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok looking at Darbys ISO.

Right away, I see what Toog pointed out about Enchant. Darby calls Enchant town and lumps Enchant and Almost50 together but for no reason, later lumping in Gamma as well. It's hard to see all three as town and two have already flipped. Also worth noting that when Penguin presses for reasoning on the Enchant and Almost50 reads, Darby seems to be more describing Almost50 than Enchant here:

I can try. A50 and Enchant stand out to me as players that play the game less “seriously” then others but I think would still try to play their roles. Skimming through their arguments feels like natural reactions to the game. A50 specifically played similar to this in Squid Game with me and came out as town iirc.

After that quote, 1179 1180 and 1181 offer more follow up on Almost50 and Gamma that we never get about Enchant. Any difference between how flipped scum treats town reads who have flipped town and town reads who are still living, is notable.

Next thing that stands out is more interaction with Penguin than you'd expect considering how little Penguin was actually here. First instinct is to see if it looks like Penguin as a buddy prompting Darby to talk and get into the game. And some of the questioning almost gives off that vibe. But not when you realize Penguin was voting the slot and likely wanted a new line of questioning after the replacement. And Iconeum forgetting Penguin was even in the game when he made a reads list is probably more telling anyway.

1188 seems to have the same "ugh don't scum read me" vibes towards Fun and Games that Iconeum displayed. While it

could

be annoyance at being bussed, I still lean towards it being someone worried town is after them because of the emotion Iconeum showed.

If scum!Gamma wanted to make a wagon and cause a mislim she wouldn't show her bias against VP. Rather, he made a case against VP for personal reasons that have a natural buildup. This isn't something that would be directly town-indicative. This feels like genuine emotion that could discredit Gamma down the line, which I don't think he'd want as scum. Given my limited experience, I'm willing to give this behavior a townread.

I'm reading this more times than I should have to because it seems to contradict my point that Iconeum/VP didn't make sense as a team. This feels like it's just as much about discrediting Gammas VP read as it is townreading Gamma which just feels so off. Maybe its nit intentional but if it is it looks really bad for VP. But looking at games tate, it was more important for Darby to take a stance on Gamma and maybe that's just what Darby latched on to in order to give Gamma a town read and not look too opportunistic. It's hard to decide on this but it's something that's gonna be in my head. 1401 he does make a comment against Datisi for voting sitcakez though and we know sircakez was town. So that's a thing.

I townread you mainly because I feel your dissonance between yourselves is genuine

Sounds more like appeasing town who is pushing him than giving a buddy a cheap town read, especially after openly saying he figured he's dying today.

F&G, VP, Datsi are all town from the last few posts I've seen.
Bingle and Gamma are null, where posts feels less solve focus and more expaniding on things already said.

Rule of three would implicate Fun and Games or VP. I'm not so sure though. VP if anything but meh. The weird thing is the nulls. Sure, scrap the town read on Gamma in case you have to vote there for self preservation. But that's a weird first mention of Bingle. Just to call him null as one of five players to give a read on.

The Dunn vote is obviously a terrible attempt to kill town instead of himself. I think he chose town because he didn't want to be called out for reversing a town read on Gamma. The switch to Gamma comes after he realizes the Dunn vote is just as bad. At this point its anything to get a green flip over his own.

Give me a few and I'll summarize all this and look at his final reads list

[VP Baltar]

I think it’s weird VP is asking about why I called them town yesterday, like VP was THERE, didn’t think to ask then?? now it’s like, are you trying to set something up to push me?

It did occur to me, i just didnt get to it before the day ended.

Answer the question.

[Dwlee99]

So many words that fill up my entire screen, is it all associatives still?

[Fun and Games]

Yes but the analysis is good imo, and +town for sa

What do u think of my vote on u

@dwlee

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

Datisi, Bingle, and F/G are towny because of how their progression has changed given the circumstances and have been pro town.

VP is town on a conditional Gamma flipping red.

I feel your play is so brash it can’t come from scum.

I keep my Enchant and A50 reads.

Gamma is still scum.

Null reads from Cakez and Dwlee but lurker scum could be in here?

I dunno who I forgot but those are my gut reads without any proof.

Ok so what stands out right away is how Bingle was elevated right from null to town. Zero reasoning on what changed.

There's also awkward phrasing on Enchant who is still lumped with Almost50. "I keep my read" rather than simply saying town. Why the awkwardness around that?

Dwelee and sircakez being "maybe scum " and sircakez being town leaves dwelee as a possibility as well.

And he forgot dunn/toog so likely town.

______________

Summarizing the associatives to this slot in order of most likely partners:

Enchant - Implicated by both ISOs. Iconeum threw shade, never followed up, then listed Enchant as null. Darby had a strong but never explained town read and awkward phrasing on it later on.

Bingle - they both had Bingle in the town pile without doing a good job of explaining why. Darby even bumped Bingle up from a weird inclusion in a null list to town and didn't say why.

Dwelee - I know there isn't a ton here because Not_Mafia didn't give us much and Dwelee came near the end of Darbys game but this fits with both reads lists.

VP - So there's a lot and some of it can be taken either way but I lean towards VP not being scum with this slot

Fun and Games - A little bit of the same as VP but the town stuff seems stronger than VP's. I think both were frustrated they couldn't convince Fun and Games they were town.

Andante - I'm convinced Iconeum genuinely forgot about Penguin in his reads list which makes them an unlikely partner. Darbys associatives don't look much stronger here.

Toog - Darby was pretty clearly trying to shift us to Dunn Day 1. I don't read it as bussing in any way.

[Dwlee99]

Yes but the analysis is good imo, and +town for sa

What do u think of my vote on u

@dwlee

~ skitter

I think you want me to post more

[Enchant]

I was townreaded because it was popular.

THAT'S HOW TOWN WORKS.

Who do you think is scum today?

Probably would want to decapitate Dwlee99.

[Enchant]

Or Fun smh.

My mind hoping.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Enchant why did you like never talk about Iconeum or Darby until your hammer? When you were voting me for "first post" In which I voted Iconeum, what did you think was scummy about my Iconeum vote?

[Sleepless Assassin]

Dwelee did you ever consider asking about the Darby wagon? I don't really see any opinions from you until you voted Gamma.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Bingle,

Did your Iconeum read ever evolve past this?

Ico I don’t really have a read on, nor do I expect to. I’m vaguely hoping someone else comes along and tells me his alignment so I don’t have to figure it out

I lost it but you also had a quote where you said you felt "In limbo" waiting for Datisis read on Iconeum. Why did you put so much stock in letting others read Iconeum?

Also when did you gain confidence in Gamma scum? You didn't seem sure when you voted and I'm having trouble following the trajectory. It feels like you went from "meh let's sort this" straight to "he's probably scum " but then you were the one who informed me his apathy in this game may be due to RL. And then in your words "actively campaigning for a gamma elimination for a literal week". It just feels all over the place.

I think this is more "ew" than the ew Bingle gave me:

I don't particularly dislike an Ico elim, I just don't feel that he's the obvscum other people seem to think he is.

[Sleepless Assassin]

I'm skimming Datisis ISO because he was the N1 kill and he focused a lot on ammonium and Enchant early on including this little call out:

I like style of posting, feels familiar.

as far as i know, your only game with iconeum was that where he was scum, so what does this mean?

I'm struggling to keep focus on this at nearly 1:30am so I'll probably come back to it when I can. But I don't see Datisi letting up on Enchant mechanics I hadn't remembered that before . He was also pretty hard on VP and spent quite some time voting Dunn.

Ok I've spent too much time on this today. I need to rest.

[Dwlee99]

Dwelee did you ever consider asking about the Darby wagon? I don't really see any opinions from you until you voted Gamma.

I think I was busy the night a50 started pushing it. I was willing to hammer cause I townread the wagon composition but I don't think I ever really dug into the wagon reasons

[Enchant]

Enchant why did you like never talk about Iconeum or Darby until your hammer? When you were voting me for "first post" In which I voted Iconeum, what did you think was scummy about my Iconeum vote?

I thought he was town and you was baited in voting him.

[VP Baltar]

ok so I’m mobile, can talk more later, basically I didn’t expect gamma to flip green at all, I SRed Darby for the Gamma read, so I guess I just got lucky there, as soon as I saw the green flip I was like, “nahhh this is a joke. has to be” checked back later, it wasn’t a joke. and have instantly gotten super nervous about my strong TR with skitter and pooky... won’t vote them out today, just nervous.

I think it’s weird VP is asking about why I called them town yesterday, like VP was THERE, didn’t think to ask then?? now it’s like, are you trying to set something up to push me?

It's later now. Have thoughts on the game?

Also, still waiting for an answer to your rapidly shifting views on me.

[VP Baltar]

I kind of like SA's point about Penguin not being on Darby's reads list seeming town indicative.

Bingle - what's up buddy? You are very quiet for someone who felt rushed yesterday and unable to get your thoughts out.

[VP Baltar]

Bingle - they both had Bingle in the town pile without doing a good job of explaining why. Darby even bumped Bingle up from a weird inclusion in a null list to town and didn't say why.

This is probably your spiciest read, so I'm interested. Bingle was being pretty universally town read at that point. Wouldn't scum also come up with weak reasons for a town read so as to not go too much against the popular opinion? Especially an inexperienced scum player?

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee, do you tend to be a low content player?

[Dwlee99]

Nope

[Sleepless Assassin]

Dwelee and Enchants replies both disappoint me. Not in a sunny way though. More a "I can see that but it's lazy and doesn't give me info" way.

Bingle - they both had Bingle in the town pile without doing a good job of explaining why. Darby even bumped Bingle up from a weird inclusion in a null list to town and didn't say why.

This is probably your spiciest read, so I'm interested. Bingle was being pretty universally town read at that point. Wouldn't scum also come up with weak reasons for a town read so as to not go too much against the popular opinion? Especially an inexperienced scum player?

I can see that side of it. The biggest thing though, from Darby, why go out of your way in a list of only five reads to call Bingle null first?

[Dwlee99]

Me? Lazy? Never

Same with enchant lmao