Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Andante]

VOTE: VP Baltar

I'll probably end here anyways eod

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sigh.

Ok.

I tried.

I'm out of time. Walking in to work in less than 2 minutes

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: VP Baltar

I'll probably end here anyways eod

Neat. You going to answer why you scum--->town read me D1?

[VP Baltar]

Or do you simply not have an answer?

[Fun and Games]

Do you believe in the third vote on a wagon tell

no

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

No scumreads?

not really tbh, rn i'm just ranking people in order of how much i do (or don't) townread them

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Yeah, I briefly gave stuff last night on that, but basically, yes I agreed on the gamma vote, but it felt like yall were trying to rush the gamma lim, and me seeing A50 die over yall, got me super suspicious, but like, I've had time to think, I think yall would've killed A50 over Dats, so I'm no longer as nervous in yall flipping scum, yeah. My brain makes 50 million leaps.
If the scum team isn't VP and Dwlee, I have no freaking clue who it is, maybe dunn/toog can get tossed in there? idk, I've been skimming some, Sleepless has so many words, I'm sure they're good words, but essays lose me, I prefer the tldr for stuff not "here's an essay on this"

i mean i wasn't trying to rush it, it's not my fault gamma selfed and then enchant hammered

i did want him flipped but certainly not within that timeframe

n1? absolutely would not have killed dats
sleepless's words i feel like are townie, and while i don't townread toog i still feel like the slot is anti-associated with ico

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: Fun and Games

also a self-note to me to pick up reading from the point in D1 where FG says they're considering voting Ico but want to see a vote count first.

[Fun and Games]

shocking

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: Fun and Games

also a self-note to me to pick up reading from the point in D1 where FG says they're considering voting Ico but want to see a vote count first.

Elaborate plz

~ skitter

[Bingle]

I do have to admit 927 gives me weird vibes though. Like trying to get Friends and Games a little town cred on a Datisi town flip where Datisi would get nothing from a Friend's and Games scum flip.

in any case

if either of Datisi or F&G flips scum at one point, the other is probably town
definitely doesn't feel like scum interaction between them

What? That's a symmetric read. The only way either of them gets towncred is if the other flips scum. F+G gets nothing from a Dats townflip and Dats would get towncred from an F+G scumflip. What are you smoking?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Fun and Games

Serious vote?

311-313 felt like they were preempting their argument in a scummy way

oh actually a serious vote?

what was preempting about it? and what made it scummy?

why do you townread iconeum?

because
i think he is town

why townread me? i don't think i've done anything particularly townie so far

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dunn

Legit think there are two scum in (Dunn, Gamma, enchant, Ico)

Game is moving too fast and they can't keep with the pace. Sleeper scum in the actives.

i've got scumpings on echant and Dunn, i don't *really* agree with the other 2 names you got there

VOTE: Dunn

i'll be back after the weekend with more.

I agree with the conclusion but not the logic. I see Ico as looking to bait enchant to talk about why he's town more than casting shade there, which is a weird thing to ask a buddy when presumably they're making up the read on you. Then the response to VP seems more about "I'm not scum" than actually addressing either of Dunn/Enchant. If he'd actually been shading enchant it would be more partnery, given the Dunn vote.

Not a fan of an analysis post that gives the impression you didn't read the posts you're analyzing. Also not a big fan of "Enchant probably town from this interaction,

[Bingle]

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Interesting take. (putting this in my ISO to ponder it later)

[VP Baltar]

shocking

So pooky has been here the whole time, just not posting.

[VP Baltar]

That my friends is called a bear trap.

[Bingle]

No, i'm saying i sont think the way enchant did it is scum-indicative

What about it? Is it NAI or town indicative in your opinion.

I have to say I'm not a fan of being afk all of yesterday, especially when I was a pretty reasonable NK suspect at the time and we had a potential loss of cop clear to contend with (assuming, of course, that cop is the PR). I actually didn't bother rereading over the night because I thought it likely I'd die.

[Bingle]

That my friends is called a bear trap.

Saw this in PEdit:

Are you saying that Pooky is a drop bear? Cause I will policy eliminate him for being terrifying and also mythological if that's the case.

[Fun and Games]

@vp why is that scum indicative

@bingle: first paragraph: loosely town indicative imo, since he did it gor both alignments
Not sure what you're saying with the second one

~ skitter

[Bingle]

snip

The reversal on Enchant here is interesting. I don't think it's scummy for SA, (the reason for the reversal is a pretty good one) but I don't think bussing here is out of the question. If we flip SA first and he's scum I'd say that's +scum for enchant but that the tell doesn't function the other way round.

I like the Penguin analysis that he then just drops as irrelevant. ime, most scum don't tend to give reasoning on reads and then drop it for "Eh, that other thing I said is probably more relevant anyway."

Sounds more like appeasing town who is pushing him than giving a buddy a cheap town read, especially after openly saying he figured he's dying today.

? Why would something read as more appeasy when taking a defeatist tone than not?

[VP Baltar]

@vp why is that scum indicative

Why are you two being so guarded with your posting? Only scum care about presenting themselves carefully.

Your playstyle today has shifted notably following the speed-yeet of Gamma, who suspected you. Y'all had been playing pretty loose in the thread until today. I don't see why you'd shift like that as town. But if there is a reason, I'm listening.


Secondly, I actually was reading your ISO to see how your Ico read developed, and I have to say it was a suspiciously accurate gut read based on practically nothing, then you were focused on other people primarily. You were asking Datisi a lot of questions about his read on Ico, seeming to try and gauge off him how seriously you should be pushing Ico. You then returned to voting Ico when the wagon was more viable. I do want to read in context your change in position in relation to other people around the time you voted Ico.

But for now, Gamma was suspicious of you, Cakez was suspicious of you, and I don't care for your careful posting today. Very comfortable with my vote.

[Toogeloo]

I looked at Almost50. He really didn't do a ton with reads. He was dead wrong about Gamma. He was wrong about Iconeum/Darby although he did vote there for thinking Darby had a stronger role than Gamma lol. I do notice he had Enchant low on his reads list but he only mentioned that a few times. I think it's more likely Almost50 was killed for being a possible power role or being too widely town read than being a threat to find the scum.

A50 town slipped too much to be scum, especially with concerns to how the power setup was. A50 also likely town read players who aren't scum and pushed that agenda (myself for sure), and would have been both a hard mis-elim himself and on others he would fight. He had a possibility of being a power role in part to the way all VTs should be operating, by feigning power crumbs. It was a high equity kill to eliminate A50 considering all factors. There aren't many other players in the game who were likely better.

Enchant is still my Elim of choice today.

[VP Baltar]

There aren't many other players in the game who were likely better.

I would agree with this except for Bingle, which frankly is creeping me out slightly. Why do you think A50 over a Bingle kill?

[Fun and Games]

Uh i have several objections:

- we're not being 'guarded' you keep trying to push that narrative when its not a thing that's happening. Where exactly do you see this happening? And how are we at once being guarded and loose ...?

- the fact that gamma suspected us is irrelevant, and the speedyeet is not our responsibility or fault. He also suspected you, i dont get why this is a relevant data point

- i disagree that our playstyle has shifted, and if it has i would like to elaborate on how you think it has and why that's scummy

- ico's entrance to the thread was awful. We chose to give him time in case he was just having an offday or being busy. We were badgering dats abt his read since dats is incredibly good at reading him, so i wanted to validate if our read made sense. (And when dats wouldnt i got suspicious, and i would have pushed yesterday off of associatives if he hadnt, like, died that night). So yeah in that interim we concentrated on other people, what else should we have done? And yeah we returned when the wayon was more viable and when we were p confident we were netting a scum flip. Are you basically positing that we're scum with ico, pushed him since like p2, but badgered dats to gauge how viable a wagon was while pushing our partner the whole time? That doesnt even make sense ...

- why was cakez being sus of us even relevat to anything, even if you posit we're scum dats is the one who killed him ...

Pedit @vp

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

He also suspected you

gamma did not suspect me past our spat on D1. He was calling me town.

[Bingle]

I lost it but you also had a quote where you said you felt "In limbo" waiting for Datisis read on Iconeum. Why did you put so much stock in letting others read Iconeum?

Also when did you gain confidence in Gamma scum? You didn't seem sure when you voted and I'm having trouble following the trajectory. It feels like you went from "meh let's sort this" straight to "he's probably scum " but then you were the one who informed me his apathy in this game may be due to RL. And then in your words "actively campaigning for a gamma elimination for a literal week". It just feels all over the place.

No, I never really got a hard read on Ico. I didn't expect to. I'm bad at reading Ico.

I gained confidence of my own in reading Gamma-scum after A50 outed what the tell was, Gamma tacitly endorsed it, it fit Gamma's behavior, Gamma claimed that it didn't fit Gamma's behavior, and then Gamma backtracked and revealed that it really did fit Gamma's behavior in a roundabout way. (See, the whole blowing up at Baltar thing.)

Pointing out that Gamma does apathy/frustration as both alignments and that particular tell was NAI was more about reading you than reading Gamma. I thought it was weird that you were voting Gamma for a silly reason when there was a GOOD reason to do so, and was trying to figure out if you were bussing or not by trying to figure out to what degree you believed your own take on the wagon and whether you would hop off when questioned. I thought you had pretty significant partner equity with Gamma at EoD1.

[Fun and Games]

I feel like a lot of what you jist wrote up is shade tbh

Pedit that's what you took away from that ?

~ skitter