Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Fun and Games]

I don't like that Ico slacked off on the thread as soon as Datisi had a day off.

Me calling out Ico lurking at a not great time for him.

do you think i should be townreading you, vp?

You can have whatever read you want on me. I think it is illogical to put me in a scumpile with dunn/Gamma.

Those theories of the game are in direct conflict with each other. Or at least they would appear to be if i was in your shoes.

Seems a bit contrived.

So Fun and Games is equally bad with their readslist because they have me as scum *with* Dunn, whom I want yeeted today?

I haven't looked for associatives between you and Dunn yet. I will say that F&G hasn't struck me as super suspicious to this point. I saw you were making some kind of case against them in the last few pages. I'll give that a careful look when I do a detailed catchup post in a few hours.

Ico trying to undermine my wagon with a lame attack on F&G

do you think i should be townreading you, vp?

You can have whatever read you want on me. I think it is illogical to put me in a scumpile with dunn/Gamma.

Those theories of the game are in direct conflict with each other. Or at least they would appear to be if i was in your shoes.

Seems a bit contrived.

Me being the first person to call out Ico's scum reads list as questionable.

it's a very shallow and general binning of like 4? players?

When Ico tries to defend said scum list, I throw his own words back at him.

Opens game after day and a half gone:

Scummy
Dunn
GE
VP
Fun and Games

Oh well this should be entertaining.

It'll take me a minute to catch up this morning because I have some work to finish, but I can't wait to see how me and my scum reads are teammates.

Me being snarky at the original reads list (sorry shit is out of order, I was scrolling backward through my ISO)
---------------
Again, I think pooky was being very selective in look at my posts to come to a pre-determined solution last night (which he would do as town or scum). I'm not saying I was on the right wagon D1 -- I certainly was not -- but I don't see how you could look at my ISO and say I'm carrying water for ICO or even more ridiculously, that I town read that slot.

I'm not even scanning my ISO thorougly, I'm just picking from a single spot near where the SA stuff was and I'm scrolling backward. There's no lack of stuff here that contradicts the characterization Pooky put forward.

Bingle, did you actually look at the context of what Pooky was talking about or only at my responses from last night's fight before you voted me?

funny how you shade ico but coveniently dont vote for ico and push people who are not named ico to die.

[Fun and Games]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

[VP Baltar]

funny how you shade ico but coveniently dont vote for ico and push people who are not named ico to die.

I did actually vote Darby toward the end of the day, but then ended up switching back to Gamma. Again, I'm barely skimming my ISO here and seeing this stuff.

You should admit you're being selective or weren't looking that hard. Ico and I had a notable amount of back and forth at times that was me putting a lot of questions to him, coupled with him attacking or undermining the wagons I was pursuing. It doesn't look remotely like a scum buddy relationship if you get into the details.

[VP Baltar]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

yes. do you not question your null reads and press them though?

[Fun and Games]

that actually makes me scumread you more dude - you have reasons to scumread ico but you dont push for him to die, you just coveniently push everyone else lol.

if you had actually a townread on ico that looked reasonable it wouldn't look as bad for you to be chainsaw defending him.

[Fun and Games]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

yes. do you not question your null reads and press them though?

you r trying to make it sound like you suspect him and you called him out etc but you also claim he was null for you.

this is a contradiction.

[VP Baltar]

that actually makes me scumread you more dude - you have reasons to scumread ico but you dont push for him to die, you just coveniently push everyone else lol.

if you had actually a townread on ico that looked reasonable it wouldn't look as bad for you to be chainsaw defending him.

The things I was questioning him about were not strong in my book. There was some logical inconsistency there that I was poking around trying to understand and see what the motivations were.

Hardest part was him saying he was busy IRL and then replacing out. Trying to separate out poor reading comprehension as busy town and lazy scum is a fine line that I was struggling to parse, hence the null read.

[VP Baltar]

wait a sec didnt you say you had ico at null

lol

yes. do you not question your null reads and press them though?

you r trying to make it sound like you suspect him and you called him out etc but you also claim he was null for you.

this is a contradiction.

Not at all. What I"m saying is you cherry picked stuff and claimed my whole ISO was bad around Ico, when that's simply not true. You're being deceptive with the knowledge that most people aren't going to go back and actually read these interactions. Now that I'm at a computer, I'm presenting the much fuller context you intentionally or unintentionally ignored last night. Sorry that's inconvenient for you.

[Fun and Games]

is he null or did you think he was a suspect

make up your mind dude lol

[VP Baltar]

is he null or did you think he was a suspect

make up your mind dude lol

explained above. you can have the last word though. Trying not to clog the thread anymore. Just wanted to respond to stuff from my computer.

[Fun and Games]

yea you wanted to shade him but keep him nice and comfy at null so you could say you were against him but not really

[Bingle]

Why you assume we have Cop.

I'm not. If we don't have a cop, cop hypoclaims are entirely meaningless and have 0 impact on the game. Scum knows whether this is the case, but us hypoclaiming DOESN'T HURT US.

If we DO have a cop, hypoclaims mean that the cop result still gets outed if scum shoot them over the night phase. There's a slight risk in that scum might be able to find a cop that exists through process of elimination of impossible results (if one of us hypos an innocent on a scum player they're obviously not cop, for example.) but overall that risk is less than the chance that we lose the innocent result if the cop is killed over the nightphase.

Of course, before Dats/Cakez died leaving us with only one PR, scum cop hunting was less of a concern, but it's still not the biggest concern for the town.

[Bingle]

Bingle, did you actually look at the context of what Pooky was talking about or only at my responses from last night's fight before you voted me?

Not really, no. I haven't had enough spare time to dig into context on everything, tbh, and I'm mostly playing on the basis impressions to supplement what I actually have time to reread. Are you saying that what I posted as the core of skitters case not accurate?

[VP Baltar]

Are you saying that what I posted as the core of skitters case not accurate?

You restated his accusations fine, but I guess what I'm saying is that I countered by saying what he was stating was very cherry picked and inaccurate --- to which you said it looked like I couldn't really defend. I was curious if you actually looked or were just taking pooky at his word because he was memeing.

I've pulled the fuller context around his accusations now that I think clearly shows what I was saying was correct.

[Dwlee99]

Pooky are you bussing VP. And tell the truth

[Bingle]

Gamma flipping town meant that EOD1 wagons were T/S and not S/S - I remembered Gamma was very close to dying near end of D1 so I'm looking for who was trying to kill him then to save Darby.


this is the penultimate VC:



Dwlee votes Gamma ~25 minutes later making it 6-3.

A50 is the one who changes momentum by flipping his vote from Gamma -> Darby making it 5-4. 1861

This is probably the single most important part of D1.

You push back on A50 with 1867 berating him for vote-flipping but not providing any reasons.

Reading all the posts in the pages since A50's vote-flip, your post is the only pushback he gets for vote flipping.

Which makes sense in the context of scum!you seeing your mis-elim starting to walk out the door.

If you're town, that seems like an understandable analysis. I know it's incorrect, but I guess I can see where you'd be suspicious. Still think you could have answered my question at the start of the day instead of ghosting me or being obtuse about it.

In response to the point you're making, I don't think it'd be a wise play for me as scum there to make a stink about A50 ditching, especially since he is semi-erratic as a player. Seems like a play that is unlikely to get him to flip back to Gamma and the safer play would have been to just shut up or join the flop to a bus in a VP!scum world.

Uh, so I went to look back and find the thing, but when I did the thing didn’t exist so I’m going to do the thing again/for the first time/not hallucinating that I did the thing this time.

This is why I’m voting you. The pushback on monkey when you didn’t have a strong reason you’d stated to prefer gamma to ico. The rest of the back and forth with you/Pooky feels like noise to distract from this and less important in comparison.

[Dwlee99]

Bingle can you please explain any of the words in your first paragraph? I am completely lost

[VP Baltar]

The pushback on monkey when you didn’t have a strong reason you’d stated to prefer gamma to ico.

I stated quite clearly why it weirded me out that A50 was dumping his preferred wagon all day.

I also think it's stating a pretty low opinion of my scumplay to think I'd throw a fit in thread in that scenario where a hypothetical buddy was going down. Darby would have been completely useless to me as scum and I would have bussed the fuck out of him without blinking an eye. Not like he was playing well and worth saving.

[VP Baltar]

Dude scumslipped in thread before the flip and you think VP would have been trying to save him at E-1. I know we haven't played together much...but does that come across to you like something I would do?

[VP Baltar]

Here is where I think we are at:

Toogeloo

- most likely town based on the way Ico flip flopped on this slot.

Sleepless Assassin

- town for actually attempting to solve. His positions evolve logically.

Fun and Games

- null to townish. Still think Pooky is making very opportunistic points and bad faith arguments, but he's sort of being the same asshat he was in Hidden Temple. I still don't like him lurking until I called him out and voted, but after much prying, I find the explanation believable enough.

Bingle

- early town read, but sliding to more nullish due to lack of engagement. When I sit back and try to think what Bingle has actually done since D1, I come up very blank. Could be paranoia on my part.

Dwlee99

- very hard to read since Not Mafia posted like himself, and Dwlee is low efforting as well. Null to scumish.

Enchant

- null to scumish. The hammers are objectively bad, but his aloofness kind of throws me as town vibey. This slot feels like my gut is saying town and my brain is saying scum.

Andante

- null to scummish. Also seems to be playing very opportunistically, and if F&G is town, is absolutely pocketing. Andante's reads seem very wrong (Gamma, me, toog) and she's not reading the game to attempt to correct them. She's been dodgey on basic questions, and I'm not a fan of the AtE. However, I'm pausing a bit on the way she backed off on me. That'd be completely unnecessary as scum there. I would have tried to press through my misyeet in that position by swaying dwlee and SA. Of course, galaxy brain, maybe she felt F&G did enough to put the nails in my coffin and she was looking for a way off? IDK. Of course, Penguin also camped on the Ico/Darby wagon early. This is a good reminder that I meant to go review his vote in relation to when he replaced. Note to self.


-----

Bottom half of my list is giving me a lot of headaches trying to sort. I feel most confident about Toog and SA. F&G is a bit of a wild card, and after that it's a fuck all if I know for sure.

Enchant has the most scummy vote play, but who would be his partner if that were true? Bingle? Dwlee?

[Bingle]

Bingle can you please explain any of the words in your first paragraph? I am completely lost

I thought I had made that post already, went back to quote it, and realized I may in fact be losing my mind.

[Bingle]

I come up very blank.

I tried to derail the gamma wagon in twilight and have struggled to keep up with the game since.

[VP Baltar]

I come up very blank.

I tried to derail the gamma wagon in twilight and have struggled to keep up with the game since.

Is there something about the Gamma yeet that is affecting your ability to keep up? Other than last night, the pace of the game hasn't felt super fast to me.

[Bingle]

Rl. This week has been a little hectic and I spent half yesterday throwing up.

I just threw a jester game by putting myself at e-1 instead of hammering, if you want evidence.

[Bingle]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88257