Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Fun and Games]

Damn, I wish skitts/SA were here to answer questions, that would make this way easier.

i'm around now, if that wasn't obvious

~ skitter

[Bingle]

idk what do mean by come back to?

~ skitter

I think toog responded and it got lost in the you/vp stuff. Was wondering if you had any more thoughts.

[Fun and Games]

VOTE: dwlee

I feel p good abt town-enchant tbh

Toog if u can even give a tldr about what you found scimmy there, i would appreciate it

~ skitter

It's the way ico and darby handled Enchant.

Darby was "town-hunting" more and trying to drive home people as town, but the Enchant read never clicked. It was just constantly subtly pushed as a town read while more heavily pushing actual town reads, like A50 and Gamma, who have actually flipped town. Kind of a reverse rule of three tbqh.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I'm not sure how else to tell you that the associatives between both parts of the flipped scum fell like they indicate Enchant as a partner than an adversary.

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

[Bingle]

dwlee's posting from today is p bad

~ skitter

It looks pretty flaily but I’m not sure how much of that is NAI frustration about Andante not engaging. Is there something that looks exceptionally bad?

[Fun and Games]

dont' think their reasons for scumreading pooky are in good faith

~ skitter

[Bingle]

Ico meanwhile kept slandering Enchant, and calling a few of their things scummy off the cuff, but rarely ever pushed and generally ignored Enchant, while keeping Enchant in a Null pile.

I mean tbf this is functionally the logic i was using to scumread gamma yesterday and he was town

~ skitter

I don’t understand why this translates to enchant town. Like, if the logic is sound enough for a gamma read why isn’t it sound enough for an enchant read?

[Fun and Games]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

[Bingle]

dont' think their reasons for scumreading pooky are in good faith

~ skitter

Oh. I haven’t read that bit yet. I was hoping you were seeing the thing with andante I was seeing.

[Fun and Games]

i'm gonna be honest i skimmed over a lot of it

~ skitter

[Bingle]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

[Bingle]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

[Fun and Games]

uh maybe? not really sure what you mean lol

and i'll take another look

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

can you just like quote from where you think the dwlee interactions are interesting?

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

Fun and Games - null to townish. Still think Pooky is making very opportunistic points and bad faith arguments, but he's sort of being the same asshat he was in Hidden Temple. I still don't like him lurking until I called him out and voted, but after much prying, I find the explanation believable enough.

hi what do u think of my head

~ skitter

You come across more townish to me than pooky, which is helping the overall read of your slot be more lean town.

[VP Baltar]

Dwlee99 - very hard to read since Not Mafia posted like himself, and Dwlee is low efforting as well. Null to scumish.

how would u feel abt wagoning dwlee?

~ skitter

I could be down, but can you tell me the bullet points of why?

[Fun and Games]

at least in part to see if you'd actually vote there

~ skitter

[VP Baltar]

- never ended up on the ico wagon
- tried to divert multiple times away from the ico wagon (made a dunn push, made a sa push that he's now negating the importance of, shaded a50 for moving wagon momentum from gamma to darby)
- his initial push on us this phase was gross, and was basically shade without explaining why any of what he was actually calling us out for was scum indicative
- now he's trying to largely shade/ignore pooky's points

- I was on Darby briefly D1, but true that I wasn't on there EOD.

- I've responded to all these at length and why I think they are weak points within the context of the day. I'd rather not keep going over this if your slot isn't going to acknowledge or consider the responses given.

- that's like, your opinion

- what points? Pooky failed to say anything new throughout our fight, often requoting the same posts and then acting like he was making a new point. I've fully responded to every point of substance he made, to which he failed to address my rebuttals and simply restated the same points. Please point me specifically to things you want me to respond to that I have not already.

[Fun and Games]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

i'm not sure i see this tbh, they're townreading andante p hard, i don't really see them assuming scum-andante anywhere
in fact it looks to me like if dwlee is scum they're trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

~ skitter

[Bingle]

Andante is clowning

Andante if you're town what are you doing this game

this conversation is a waste of time

you r scum goodbye

hahahah that's how I felt talking to dwlee and VP, I just wanna flip dwlee and move on tbh

This totally indicates you reconsidering and not blind jumping into limming people

When all of the things andante does help scum but they're blatantly town weeooweeoo my brain is a circus

Posts like these. It feels like he’s genuinely scumreading Andante and then remembering “Oh shit I don’t want to lim andante.” And he jumped at me for even being adjacent to considering Andante scum.

I don’t see why he does this as T/S and it doesn’t look like T/T

[Bingle]

Look at just Dwlee’s side for me? He’s tring andante there but it kinda feels like he’s assuming andante scum a good portion of the time

i'm not sure i see this tbh, they're townreading andante p hard, i don't really see them assuming scum-andante anywhere
in fact it looks to me like if dwlee is scum they're trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

~ skitter

They. Shit, sorry Dwlee.

[Bingle]

trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

That looks very much like not buddying. Like, if dw is trying to earn cred with andante saying she’s clowning is a really strange way to about it. Also like 60% of the thread hasn’t even weighed in on the back and forth, so I think saying andante is necessary for a mislim in you is a bit of a reach.

[Bingle]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

To try to explain this it feels like saying

“Gamma had a .45 and the bullet fired was from a .45”
“Nah can’t be, gamma was at the bar all night. Enchant has a .45 though”
“Nah can’t be, Gamma was at the bar all night”

[Fun and Games]

If you're town, that seems like an understandable analysis. I know it's incorrect, but I guess I can see where you'd be suspicious. Still think you could have answered my question at the start of the day instead of ghosting me or being obtuse about it.

In response to the point you're making, I don't think it'd be a wise play for me as scum there to make a stink about A50 ditching, especially since he is semi-erratic as a player. Seems like a play that is unlikely to get him to flip back to Gamma and the safer play would have been to just shut up or join the flop to a bus in a VP!scum world.

for me i'ts calling out a50 + trying to herd people back to the gamma wagon (1979, for example)
yes, it's possible that you just had a bad read, but since darby was scum and you were trying to push the cw, it looks p suspicious to me

i don't really care so much abt the chainsaw-ing bit, and i'm not sure i give that super much weight

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

trying to buddy andante because they're gonna need her vote to lim either us or someone not vp/dwlee

That looks very much like not buddying. Like, if dw is trying to earn cred with andante saying she’s clowning is a really strange way to about it. Also like 60% of the thread hasn’t even weighed in on the back and forth, so I think saying andante is necessary for a mislim in you is a bit of a reach.

any wagon needs 5 votes, we're presumably not voting that, and i kinda doubt that you are, toog is very stuck on enchant
andante would be a p critical vote there

i'm reading that interaction as trying to wave away andante's feelings around us while emphasitizing they think she's town to try to direct her to better wagons from dwlee's pov

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

it doesn't, i was saying that using that logic for calling enchant scum was bad because we tried that yesterday on someone else and they flipped town, so obviously that logic is somewhat faulty

~ skitter

This seems like a weird inversion of the fallacy fallacy to me, but I think that’s probably town points for you.

To try to explain this it feels like saying

“Gamma had a .45 and the bullet fired was from a .45”
“Nah can’t be, gamma was at the bar all night. Enchant has a .45 though”
“Nah can’t be, Gamma was at the bar all night”

ah ig i see what you're saying
idk it made sense to me at the time

~ skitter