Open 836: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

[Fun and Games]

Scum is much more likely to claim scum than town is

I actually disagree with this premise, and think the opposite. Why do u think this?

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I feel reasonably confident that enchant is a misflip, ehy is he your top choice?

How much of your belief in this is contingent on you believing I'm scum?

None, the two thoughts are completely unrelated

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Can I ask why you claimed mafia? Isn't that kind of the same thing as self voting?

No, its not, and its some sort of fallacy to suggest it is

~ skitter

You are incorrect.

How is claiming scum the same thing as self voting

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

Scum is much more likely to claim scum than town is

I actually disagree with this premise, and think the opposite. Why do u think this?

~ skitter

There are actual reasons for scum to give up. The only reason I can think of for town is a complete temper tantrum and ruining games because they didn't get their way. Enchant doesn't strike me as that kind of person and even if he did, one town player dying shouldn't be enough to trigger that response.

[Fun and Games]

Why would scum-enchant be giving up here? He's not particularlu close to dying, and he still has a partner?

Whereas i think that this not exactly a tantrum but a continuation/followup on the sort of game he's been playing, and fits eith the sort of player he's demonstrated himself to be by hammering twice

I dont think it was in response to fear of dying as either alignment, rather how bad he feels quickhammering gamma, and it makes more sense for town to feel bad and act out there than scum imo

Like its bad, for sure, but bad play doesnt make someone scum

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

It's bad play as scum. It's just plain ruining it for others if town.

[Fun and Games]

Sure, but doing the latter doesn't make him scum

[VP Baltar]

Can I ask why you claimed mafia? Isn't that kind of the same thing as self voting?

No, its not, and its some sort of fallacy to suggest it is

~ skitter

You are incorrect.

How is claiming scum the same thing as self voting

~ skitter

Both are highly detrimental plays to town as a whole, and flail moves in general.

For Enchant to SEE and EXPERIENCE the negative consequences of such actions by town through Gamma, and then to turn around and take similar action is grounds for suspicion.

You're being ridiculous to say scum would never take a flail maneuver to shake heat they are getting for their play.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Sure but I don't think I've ever seen it before from town.

[Fun and Games]

You're being ridiculous to say scum would never take a flail maneuver to shake heat they are getting for their play.

Hi just gonna point out that this yet again anothet thing i didnt say

~ skitter

[Bingle]

No, its not, and its some sort of fallacy to suggest it is

It's analogous.

The fallacy you're thinking of (probably) is personal incredulity, which is, roughly: "I don't understand why that would happen, therefore it cannot happen."

But that doesn't mean the argument of "I think it is less likely for that to happen because I don't see a clear motive behind it" is itself fallacious.

Regardless, the town motivations I am aware of for self voting and claiming scum are as follows:

1. Jokes.
2. Frustration.
3. ATE.

The scum motivations I am aware of for self voting and claiming scum are as follows:

1. Jokes.
2. Frustration.
3. ATE.

In specifically the case of a self hammer, scum has the additional motive of potentially cutting off discussion.

[Bingle]

I feel reasonably confident that enchant is a misflip,

Why?

Like, I understand but don't agree with your argument earlier, but you seem more confident. Is there a further reason or is it just the thing we discussed earlier?

[Sleepless Assassin]

I meant think it's clear frustration was the reason. But if he did that as town that means there's a spitefulness on top of that that I just don't see.

The guy said himself he's scum. Why are we even arguing over it

[Fun and Games]

Both are highly detrimental plays to town as a whole, and flail moves in general.

For Enchant to SEE and EXPERIENCE the negative consequences of such actions by town through Gamma, and then to turn around and take similar action is grounds for suspicion.

Ok so if scum-him is worried abt the negative consequences for such an act after witnessting yhe backlash gamma got ... why does he immediately followup by doing something that would garner said negative feedback (i.e. quickhammering gamma), and then only show remorse abt it midway through the next phase

And why even mimic gamma as scum when *gamma got voted out* for it, that seems like a playbook of things to *avoid* doing

And once again i agree that sich behavior is detrimental. Gamma self-voted and he was town ... implying that all such behavior is suspicious when the example we have from this very game came from town is ridiculous

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

Sure but I don't think I've ever seen it before from town.

I also dont think i've ever seen scum lolclaim scum like that either

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

You've never seen a scumclaim? I'm actually shocked if that's true.

[Fun and Games]

The fallacy you're thinking of (probably) is personal incredulity, which is, roughly: "I don't understand why that would happen, therefore it cannot happen."

No, its more: selfing and claiming scum are different levels of 'bad' and detrimental to the game, and i think its bad to equate them

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I feel reasonably confident that enchant is a misflip,

Why?

Like, I understand but don't agree with your argument earlier, but you seem more confident. Is there a further reason or is it just the thing we discussed earlier?

Basically everything i'm saying on this page

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

I meant think it's clear frustration was the reason. But if he did that as town that means there's a spitefulness on top of that that I just don't see.

The guy said himself he's scum. Why are we even arguing over it

I mean he's quickhammered twice now. While spite isnt quite the adjective i'd use, in my mind its p clear that he's the sort of player to lolclaim scum

Like yeah no spitefulness, but there is a level of trolling-ness in his play

~ skitter

[Fun and Games]

You've never seen a scumclaim? I'm actually shocked if that's true.

I dont remember an instance of scum claiming scum in middle of a game, no
~ skitter

[Toogeloo]

Toog, you never answered why you're confirmed town

You didn't read it then. It was in the post above.

[Sleepless Assassin]

For what it's worth I can't see Enchants buddy hard defending here. Fun and Games is likely town

[VP Baltar]

why even mimic gamma as scum when *gamma got voted out* for it, that seems like a playbook of things to *avoid* doing

I disagree. It's risky, but there is a non-zero chance town is gun-shy after the gamma misyeet and is reluctant to flip someone engaging in openly scummy behavior.

I get where you are coming from that people can get frustrated and make stupid plays as town. Totally true. But what concerns me here is Enchant seeing that directly and the negative effects, then doing something similar. It's a good play of reverse psychology as scum. I think you should consider that.

[Fun and Games]

I mean we are but i dont think that's great reasoning for it

~ skitter

[Sleepless Assassin]

why even mimic gamma as scum when *gamma got voted out* for it, that seems like a playbook of things to *avoid* doing

I disagree. It's risky, but there is a non-zero chance town is gun-shy after the gamma misyeet and is reluctant to flip someone engaging in openly scummy behavior.

I get where you are coming from that people can get frustrated and make stupid plays as town. Totally true. But what concerns me here is Enchant seeing that directly and the negative effects, then doing something similar. It's a good play of reverse psychology as scum. I think you should consider that.

I don't think he was trying to gain anything. Pretty sure he just wanted to be done with the game