Open 837: Cop Killer - Endgame

[Roden]

ill wait for everyone (especially darby and looker) to post before i vote, but lmao i think everyone already knows im voting t3 today.

We only eliminate T3 if we're certain he's LQ's partner. Even if we eliminate an Ice Mafia member today, town still auto loses.

[Pavowski]

ill wait for everyone (especially darby and looker) to post before i vote, but lmao i think everyone already knows im voting t3 today.

We only eliminate T3 if we're certain he's LQ's partner. Even if we eliminate an Ice Mafia member today, town still auto loses.

Not necessarily. Fire/ice kills could cancel out.

I agree with your thinking tho

[Roden]

Town:
Roden
mc esther - Townie sounding points.
Guilty Lion - Not seeing GL as Scum here. Their push on Roden looks bad in retrospect, but I'm guilty of the same thing.

Town Lean:
Bingle - Good thoughts, feel like he's actually trying to sort me.
DArby - Probably Town, but there was something that was bugging me about them near EoD. Would have to look and try and figure it out. Town Lean.

Null:
Enchant - IDK, higher activity? That's probably NAI
Pavowski - Null. Why are People TRing Pav? Is it based on pre-flip or what?
Auro - Having doubts here since I'm probably TRing Bingle and GL more at this point.
T3 - Don't really feel anything here.

Scum Lean:
Galron - I guess I have to have a Scum Lean somewhere. And I didn't really like that the were stiff at the SoD 1. Someone else made that comment and I went back to look and I can definitely see it. Their reaction to it was bad too.

VOTE: Galron

Trying to figure out who his partner from this but I'm not getting much from it.

Tbh I'm wondering why I'm still alive when neither scum team tried to kill Enchant. They instead NK'd Galron, who buried LQ, and GL, who was getting accused of faking his town game.

Galron was killed by the Ice team, so it wasn't a revenge kill from a Fire Mafia interestingly enough. Not really sure why Fire killed GL at all.

[mc esther]

oh, yeah okay, "must eliminate fire" makes this more difficult.

i still maintain that by association, looker is the most likely lickety partner; but im a bit anxious about making that as a definite call, t3 could have easily been bussing.

[Roden]

ill wait for everyone (especially darby and looker) to post before i vote, but lmao i think everyone already knows im voting t3 today.

We only eliminate T3 if we're certain he's LQ's partner. Even if we eliminate an Ice Mafia member today, town still auto loses.

Not necessarily. Fire/ice kills could cancel out.

I agree with your thinking tho

I'm assuming scum understand the massive advantage they have so I'm just going to speak freely here.

Let's imagine we elim an Ice Mafia today. That makes it 1-1-4. Scum wins if they each kill one townie, since they can have a dual victory if they eliminate/endgame town. They would have to coordinate the kill to achieve this though.

So, what's preventing Fire and Ice teams from coordinating the kill once they secure an elim that isn't the Fire team? With no CPR Doc, Mafia can freely coordinate during twilight and there's nothing we can do about it.

[mc esther]

adding to "bingle was by far the most aggressive in lickety's defense", there's this very out-of-place vote that never seems to go anywhere and he never really seems to push.

VOTE: Bingle

Let's try something spicy.

[DArby]

I could see Bings being the partner.

[Roden]

Yeah I agree that Bingle looks worse in the aftermath of the LQ flip. There's also the fact that Bingle was pretty widely town read, arguably even more than GL, but wasn't NK'd. However, Fire killed GL, and Bingle was pushing pretty hard against GL all game. Looker would've had to ignored that after replacing in, saw his slot was town read, and saw GL as a bigger threat than a conftown.

I know from the time I was partnered with LQ that his scum play is to distance from and fake appealing to his scum buddy. So I think there is a meta case here as well.

[mc esther]

distance from and fake appealing to his scum buddy

i think the vote i quoted is a pretty clear case of distancing, but idk what do you specifically mean here? i dont really understand "distancing" and "appealing to" as compatible attitudes to display towards a player.

[Auro]

From my PoV, find 2 town out of 5.
I think MC Esther is one.

[Auro]

Game theoretically optimal for an Ice team mafia member to claim and lead the kill if they want to force chances of a win, as opposed to chances of a draw.

[Pavowski]

Tbh I'm wondering why I'm still alive when neither scum team tried to kill Enchant.

As conftown, you're a pretty obvious target, and I guess you won the wifom game

[T3]

vla 3 days, possibly until friday/b]
gotta study for my calc final

[T3]

esther, can you please report your case on me because i genuinely can't find it when skimming through your iso

[T3]

oh, yeah okay, "must eliminate fire" makes this more difficult.

i still maintain that by association, looker is the most likely lickety partner; but im a bit anxious about making that as a definite call, t3 could have easily been bussing.

yeah,

i could

but is it likely?

[Roden]

distance from and fake appealing to his scum buddy

i think the vote i quoted is a pretty clear case of distancing, but idk what do you specifically mean here? i dont really understand "distancing" and "appealing to" as compatible attitudes to display towards a player.

By fake appealing, I mean pretending to argue and convince your scum buddy to believe you.

[Roden]

Tbh I'm wondering why I'm still alive when neither scum team tried to kill Enchant.

As conftown, you're a pretty obvious target, and I guess you won the wifom game

I suppose. I'm just concerned another reason I was kept alive was that I had town in my PoE. It could also be because I had scum in my town reads and they thought it was better to keep me alive, which would point to Bingle and T3.

oh, yeah okay, "must eliminate fire" makes this more difficult.

i still maintain that by association, looker is the most likely lickety partner; but im a bit anxious about making that as a definite call, t3 could have easily been bussing.

yeah,

i could

but is it likely?

Honestly this just seems like a scum interaction. Ice team secures their win by bussing today and T3 seems to purposely trying to look scummy here.

[T3]

how is that post scummy?

[Roden]

how is that post scummy?

In what universe do you think "yeah I could have bussed but is it likely" is a townie thing to say? You're practically daring us to scum read you. Why would your only defense be that it isn't likely that you bussed? Especially when you aren't even giving actual reasons for why you wouldn't have bussed there.

[Pavowski]

Tbh I'm wondering why I'm still alive when neither scum team tried to kill Enchant.

As conftown, you're a pretty obvious target, and I guess you won the wifom game

I suppose. I'm just concerned another reason I was kept alive was that I had town in my PoE. It could also be because I had scum in my town reads and they thought it was better to keep me alive, which would point to Bingle and T3.

oh, yeah okay, "must eliminate fire" makes this more difficult.

i still maintain that by association, looker is the most likely lickety partner; but im a bit anxious about making that as a definite call, t3 could have easily been bussing.

yeah,

i could

but is it likely?

Honestly this just seems like a scum interaction. Ice team secures their win by bussing today and T3 seems to purposely trying to look scummy here.

Maybe I am dumb but I think the benefit of limming a conftown slot is worth more than its weight in wifom over your reads list

Then again, you're still here, so...

[T3]

how is that post scummy?

In what universe do you think "yeah I could have bussed but is it likely" is a townie thing to say? You're practically daring us to scum read you. Why would your only defense be that it isn't likely that you bussed? Especially when you aren't even giving actual reasons for why you wouldn't have bussed there.

.-.
It's not really my scum playstyle to bus in a situation where I don't have to for gamestate/read reasons (mbos 13).

[T3]

I worded that badly.
Scum me probably soft defends LQ until he's flipped. Scum me usually busses only when forced to because I'm widely townread and need to keep the image up. (Mbos 13, Hanahaki, WNT)

[T3]

MBOS 13 I was sitting around lean town in nearly everyone's readlist. I had two widely scumread deadweight partners who I kept shielding until I had to bus both of them in ELO or I would go down after them.
Hanhaki, both of my partners scumclaimed for idiotic reasons Day 2 and Day 3, I was widely townread. I deathbussed both of them and endgamed.
WNT I was widely townread. I hard bussed my deadweight partner Day 2 or else it would look slightly suspicious for me.
Those are the 3 examples I can think of off the top of my head.

[mc esther]

esther, can you please report your case on me because i genuinely can't find it when skimming through your iso

it doesnt really matter because you cant talk me out of it, but it's the d2 post-hammer interaction where i quoted your townread on lickety.

[Looker]

O wow, this is going to be interesting. The shock was the Doc?