Shakespeare uPick | End

[Icebox]

I'm in elo again. On the bright side, I don't have to convince a pookit that they're not pookited this time.


-Bell

[Icebox]

I'm just gunna continue my analysis I guess. Dunnstral is basically playing like Dunnstral which is the only Dunnstral I know. What does Dunnstral even mean anyway?


-Bell

[Icebox]

Also, sorry Pav. I've responded *really* negatively to AtE lately. Ever since Petapan, I basically give people a hard time for having emotions. It's not great.

-Bell

[Bowser Jr.]

Hey Bell, I have a fun fact for you. Do you want to hear it?

[Icebox]

You're a towel.

-Bell

[Bowser Jr.]

Well yes, but also no

[Icebox]

I gave it my best guess.

Go for it!

-Bell

[Bowser Jr.]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12994626


https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p13009317

Dunn doesn’t fake claim truthfully

[Bowser Jr.]

I’m pretty sure he steals potions or a role or something

[Bowser Jr.]

Pav said something about banquo and Macbeth making sense in some way of copying something but I didn’t really understand it

[Dunnstral]

What do those links have to do with this game?

[Bowser Jr.]

That your argument about “who makes sense as a loverizer in my play” doesn’t hold up

[Icebox]

It's interesting, why did you make a huge fake claim that could fall apart at any moment. Instead of something more boring?

-Bell

[Dunnstral]

It's proven that I'm part of the play 'macbeth' due to me being in aneighborhood with Titus and Cephrir/Enchant

[Icebox]

Q. Did you not use your crier ability today Dunnstral?

-Bell

[Dunnstral]

It's interesting, why did you make a huge fake claim that could fall apart at any moment. Instead of something more boring?

-Bell

I had an investigative guilty on me in that game so I tried to claim in a way that would cover my bases

Q. Did you not use your crier ability today Dunnstral?

-Bell

I was asleep for the whole dawn phase

[Bowser Jr.]

It's proven that I'm part of the play 'macbeth' due to me being in aneighborhood with Titus and Cephrir/Enchant

Your fakeclaim flavir in isekai was from the same source material as your real claim. Same principle applies

[Icebox]

Could you not submit it before then or did it have to be at dawn?

-Bell

[Dunnstral]

I'm sure I could have tried to submit in advance, but I don't have anything to say with the crier anyway, and it doesn't even happen during the same phase as the nightkill, nor are scum prevented from using multiple abilities

[Dunnstral]

Anyways, there are reasons to think I'm town from the way scum played and reasons to think Bowser is scum. They were defending Cephrir, so says LLD. I don't think it's fair to say bowser is obvtown when it's just their end of game AtE and social maneuvering (don't they have a history of doing this?) Like, looking back at the rest of the game, there isn't any reason to think they are town.

VOTE: Bowser Jr.

Also I mentioned before that my slings and arrows was that I started the game macho, if that matters.

And... CoF did lie about their gold, for some reason, I wasn't wrong to push there. I can go over that again if needed, otherwise I've mostly pushed mafia this game, even if it was soft pushes at times

[Icebox]

Seems like it didnt count

VOTE: COF

Let's do this thing!

People who I think are town:

LLD (lol, it's basically a meme at this point)
Icebox
Pavowski
GuiltyLion
Lukewarm

Hmm... that's not as many as I thought it would be

--

People who I'm too scared to label as townreads but I'm not really concerned enough about them to pursue things further right now:

Dunnstral
Juliet Capulet
Galron
WhemeStar

--

The rest:

Bowser Jr.

Firstly, the attempts to strongarm people into townreading them are just not really doing anything for me, despite Bowser Jr's continued use of this as a form of defence. (see 93, 217, 263, 271 ("Also 47 hours until all votes on us must be removed"), 343. If you're relying on vague nothings rather than anything concrete to convince people to townread you, then it makes me think that you have something to hide.
Early posts from Bowser Jr. sort of made me suspicious in a way that I'd find difficult to articulate, but based on my posts I think it would be expected that 245 was what prompted the beginning of more of a scumread. The non-specific appeal to two players to "chat" at a time when Bowser Jr is starting to receive actual suspicion seems like a desperate attempt to be read as town. The "will get me more engaged" excuse falls flat. I would expect town to have topics in the game that interest them that they actually want to talk to people about, the "talk to me about anything" approach is more consistent with wanting to engage with people so that you can be read as town.

265 ESPECIALLY bothered me because of their way of throwing shade at me in what looks like an attempt to get Bell on their side against me whilst also invalidating my suspicion, through accusing me of "buddying" LLD in saying that I agreed with her. First of all,

of course

it's slightly ridiculous to say that I agree with someone who has not done anything other than voting, you're falling for easy bait. (I mostly said that I agreed with LLD because I thought it would be funny) But actually I think that LLD has been fairly clear in her opinion of the Bowser Jr. slot and the posts that LLD has obviously been bothered by are the same that have bothered me.

This was made worse by 270, which both invalidates LLD's opinions (again I think that LLD has actually been a lot clearer in her opinions than Bowser Jr has given her credit for), and also invalidates mine? Spiffy thinking that I would be trying to cozy up to LLD, an influential town player, reveals a lack of familiarity with me as a player (which I think explains why they as scum would interact with me in this way), especially since I imagine that LLD is certainly

not

the sort of player that would give someone a free town-pass for simply agreeing with her, or any attempted buddying, for that matter.
271 is trying very hard to justify the vote on me, when I think in essence town would justifiably be pissed off in response to my ridiculous posts and not be as meticulous in the justification.

Finally, 360 is trying too hard to pretend that they are actually convinced I'm scum. I've gotten myself very worked up over Bowser Jr. (clearly), yet I would not be nearly confident enough in them being scum at this stage to be planning for their scumflip.

(The criticism/suspicion comparison is probably more of theoretical than practical interest, but it

is

interesting to me, because being suspected when you're town often isn't really a failing on the town member's part, whilst being suspected when you're scum is more clearly a failing on the scum person's part. I do wonder whether scum are more likely to interpret suspicion as criticism. Again, this is not really a part of my suspicion on Bowser Jr. Just a thought bubble I had!)

--

Off The Hook

I don't really have anything more to say on this slot. Happy to give them time.

--

Wisdom

I don't actually think you're scum, but if I had to explain to someone why you aren't in my scumpile I wouldn't really have anything to say, so here we are.

--

Cephrir

I liked your vote on me and then your vote on CoF and I don't really know what I'm expecting from you, just... more? I want more!

--

Child of Fairies

Not much has really changed from my previous posts on them. If they made more posts since then I didn't really notice and I'm still not sure what that means for my read. They haven't really responded in a way that I would expect scum to respond, but also... not in what I would want from town? I don't know what to do!

--

Tamora's Angel

At the moment sitting slightly more scummy than OTH/Ceph/Wisdom, but not as concerning as CoF/Skybird/Bowser Jr.
Similar vibe of not much there but random reads list in 369 was.. okay I guess? Do I have reason to suspect Tamora's Angel? Not really?

--

Skybird

Sorry Skybird, you have gone into the scum section of my scumpile again.
Her posts feel run-of-the-mill and routine to me with not much evidence of underlying thought process behind them and more looking like posts for the sake of making them. 303 in particular does not seem super well thought out since I feel like LLD has made her meaning behind the posts very clear. 302 and 314 feel more like Skybird positioning herself than actually furthering her understanding of people's alignments etc.

--

Was this post actually just an excuse to have my Bowser Jr. rant?

Maybe

Btw it is actually embarrassing for the players on our wagon familiar with notty (such as Bell, Dunn, LLD) to be misreading him here if they're Town

He is objectively very obviously Town and you should all be ashamed of yourselves

I am obviously Town too but tend to get misread early so it's less offensive to scum read me

~Spiffy

I'm now scumreading you solely for this post

That was actually my towniest post of the game so bad take

~Spiffy

Spiffy thinking that I would be trying to cozy up to LLD, an influential town player, reveals a lack of familiarity with me as a player

(which I think explains why they as scum would interact with me in this way)

, especially since I imagine that LLD is certainly not the sort of player that would give someone a free town-pass for simply agreeing with her, or any attempted buddying, for that matter.

Looking at the bolded, can you explain why you've defaulted to "this is why scum!Spiffy would interact with me this way" instead of "since I haven't played with Spiffy before this is NAI overall"? If I haven't played with you before, it would stand to reason that as either alignment I am unfamiliar with you and could react this way as Town or Scum?

Like, I get you're scum reading us otherwise, but this post continues the trend of picking something out and painting it in the scummiest light possible to add to your collection of "points" against us. HOWEVER, the question is whether you're doing this disingenuously or if you actually think you've found something and your confbias is causing you to see everything we do in a bad light. That remains to be seen. I don't hate your reads post overall and will probably let notty do his thing for awhile because he graciously allowed me to go after you for a bit.

And since we're talking about familiarity, I'd love to dismantle a few of your arguments that are AT BEST NAI for me:
1. I call myself Town regardless of my alignment. I believe I am actually MORE inclined to do so as Town than scum because as Town when there is widespread suspicion on me I blame everyone else for being bad/wrong or scum and double down on claiming Town. As scum I know they're right about me so I'm like "oh shit I better pick up the pace and do something to get myself townread" and pivot away from this behavior if it starts putting me on radars. Is constantly calling myself Town irritating and unhelpful? Yes and MAYBE. Look at all the great content I got out of you because of it!!!!!!!!
2. Your point about asking townreads to engage me is like an absolute tenant of my townplay and a really bad point. Everyone that's played with me should be able vouch for that. Like I'm sure I've done it as scum too so whatever but I can't believe that is actually something you've taken issue with.

~Spiffy

Thanks for the response Spiffy. I think your style can come across as somewhat condescending, which causes an instinctive reaction in me and may be affecting my judgement. However, I don't think that you actually believe I am scum.

Look at all the great content I got out of you because of it!!!!!!!!

This is not really something I expect town to say about their scumread, for example.

As for your comments on my post, I don't have too much to say. I think a lot of it is "you're wrong!", but in more words? Your point no. 1 shows awareness that it is something you do as town, which means you can emulate it as scum. I find the way that you have done it to be awkward and forced and often vague, making me doubt its authenticity, which I indicated in my post.

Regarding the bolded, that is not reason for you being scum as much as it is me checking myself. In this sort of situation, I always have to think to myself, "would scum actually approach me in this sort of way". A lot of the time my reads are relational in the sense that I judge people based on how they interact with me vs. how I expect them to as town/scum. I would probably expect scum familiar with me to tread more carefully than you have. For example, if Ceph came out swinging with a scumread on me I would be surprised but I would more likely think he was genuine in that belief yet mistaken due to it being very strange from him as scum. However, that wasn't a thought I needed to have in your case. For all you know I could be an easy elim! Maybe that's even true!

Oh bowser isn’t gamma

WHOEVER BOWSER HEAD THIS IS WANNA HEAR A JOKE?

No the joke is your play this game

Boom. Roasted.

VOTE: skybird

What the hell is happening here.

Wheme wagon is faltering but I don't see why, the voting / posting pattern is weird af.

Granted I don't know Wheme. And maybe given his posts there's something mechanical happening here. But he's null at absolute best

Their lips art sewn so has't they decre'd. And yet, what is this? i sense not the tug of fate upon their words

Whemestar might be town. That was a fun run of posts. Roast.

Not convinced DV is town. Would like to know. I get weird vibes although the reads list was okay.

I Don't know wisdom well but I think if he were scum he'd be digging into someone.

Not convinced DV is town. Would like to know. I get weird vibes although the reads list was okay.

That should say would like to know DV's experience with spiffy.

This post cant decide if it thinks DV is scum or not either and your best defense is self meta

Idk I'm not really a fan

Mm not sure I get much from the DV kill. Wait did we lim DV during the day or did he get killed at night? I forgot.
382: is a good post if they're scum. It reads as genuine. That sort of complex back and forth sort of reasoning I don't see much from scum.
I'm taking Bowser's submitted evidence and adding it in. It seems valid are far as habits go.

-Bell


-Bell

[Dunnstral]

And yeah, they hit me with their post restriction last night

[Icebox]

Hey guys.

This is me not hammering.

I know. You're all shocked.

-Bell

[Icebox]

I would like you to go over the COF stuff yeah.

I appreciate the cooperation.

-Bell

[Icebox]

Actually, I think I'll try to do

Eh. No, if it ain't broke don't fix it Bell.
Just keep going. I know you want to just double iso and be lazy, but no.
Stahp.

-Bell