Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[GuiltyLion]

Marci wanted cb dead because she was threatened by his reads. And he was heavily sr her.

also this isn't true, catboi said Marci was clearly town

I think marci has moved into being pretty clearly town from her recent posts, not sure if people are skipping them or what but I feel like that ought to be acknowledged more.

[GuiltyLion]

Shiro very rarely has WIM as scum

If I were Shiro I'd honestly find this pretty insulting. "Shiro is posting, so he's town"

[GuiltyLion]

All scum are very likely within Andante/GuiltyLion/STD/Shiro

I would guess at least 2 are

this is THE reason I am scared of Alyssa

I don't disagree with an Andante/STD/Shiro POE. The only difference is I'd throw RH9/Alyssa in there.

but I'm not scum, so who is the endgame wolf?

[Titus]

Are scum playing like an insanely good game or do we just have enough town egos butting heads we can't see the clearing from the trees

I think it's the latter. The problem FMPOV is by and large Titus and HQ townreading Shiro and tunneling Datisi/me for

daring

to scumread that slot, mixed with everyone ruling out RH9/Alyssa pair for ??? reasons.

I am at the point where Alyssa is casing Andante and I need to think about it

I can definitely see Andante scum but I've been kinda just assuming Fire would leave by default if needed and all the arguing between Titus/HQ and Dats/me has felt more important to reach some kind of resolution to, because otherwise that fight just continues into second dance regardless of what Andante flips.

This is the second post trying to divert attention away from Adante without actually townreading Adante. Scum resolve deadlocks via nightkills. We should vote scumreads, yet GL is focused on breaking my townblock.

I keep looking for things to prove myself wrong and find evidence proving my theory instead.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

All scum are very likely within Andante/GuiltyLion/STD/Shiro

I would guess at least 2 are

this is THE reason I am scared of Alyssa

I don't disagree with an Andante/STD/Shiro POE. The only difference is I'd throw RH9/Alyssa in there.

but I'm not scum, so who is the endgame wolf?

boo

[GuiltyLion]

This is the second post trying to divert attention away from Adante without actually townreading Adante. Scum resolve deadlocks via nightkills. We should vote scumreads, yet GL is focused on breaking my townblock.

I'm not going to cry if Andante is limmed, I am trying to look at the bigger picture

if Andante flips town we are super screwed
and if Andante flips scum we are still going to need to resolve the lack of consensus townreads regardless

so I don't see Andante as a particularly useful push right now, even if she is scum

[RH9]

Can you town case yourself?

Uh. How do you towncase yourself? I'll try.

I think that I am Town because scum!me usually is super LAMIST and attention-diverting. My vote-unvote on Norwee was because of a change in my opinion on Norwee, after realising that I was voting somebody for NAI reasons. I got somewhat successfully pocketed by marcistar. I voted-unvoted GL because of a playstyle clash. He was pressuring people a lot to scumhunt as opposed to my ideas of reaction tests and NKA or occasionally other forms of analysis.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

so let's just

make SS/Galron the designated endgame pair

[GuiltyLion]

actually, between Titus/Alyssa would either of you

not

bet the game on S_S/Galron town?

let's start there.

p-edit lmao

[GuiltyLion]

I got somewhat successfully pocketed by marcistar.

which posts specifically do you think scum!marci wrote in order to pocket you?

[GuiltyLion]

you can't just claim you were pocketed whenever you townread scum

you need to show what things they said specifically with intent to get you in particular to townread them

and I already called out since the beginning of the game how weird it was that marci said she "enjoyed" your posts when you hadn't really posted anything. Frankly RH9 I don't think you are a slot that scum need to pocket, your townread basically everyone and you don't champion eliminations on players that you scumread

[RH9]

You're completely dismissing votes on you and supposing they have a scum motive.

i'm assuming this is at me - no, i'm *asking* why i am being voted by a slot i find suspicous. and when i'm consistently not getting answered, i have no other choice but assume it's surface-level omgus.

what made catboi so townie? do you have any experience with his scumgame? i haven't played with scum!him, but i've heard he's a Really Good scumplayer, so locking him at page 200 feels... uh.

I remember catboi talking about his scumgame, here.

[Titus]

so let's just

make SS/Galron the designated endgame pair

I'm currently ok with anyone but my three suspects with backups of rh9/std being endgame.

[GuiltyLion]

1) His opening was attacking for attacking's sake. LLD laid this out well.

who was I "attacking for attacking's sake"? Please quote the posts where you think I'm doing that

I also may not be remembering it but I don't think LLD ever said anything of this sort. Her reason for scumreading me was because I didn't "explain my reads" in one post and then got pissy with her when I found out THAT's why she was scumreading me

also Titus you never responded to this right

[RH9]

I got somewhat successfully pocketed by marcistar.

which posts specifically do you think scum!marci wrote in order to pocket you?

385
I think that it was written to make me feel better about myself and deviate towards her. She says 'but i enjoyed his posts so far and i dont think any of them seem off'. Since we don't know each other, I should have found it weird that she thought that asking Firebringer why he enjoyed being on the sidelines, and making comments on what I read, was considered enjoyable.

[Titus]

1) His opening was attacking for attacking's sake. LLD laid this out well.

who was I "attacking for attacking's sake"? Please quote the posts where you think I'm doing that

I also may not be remembering it but I don't think LLD ever said anything of this sort. Her reason for scumreading me was because I didn't "explain my reads" in one post and then got pissy with her when I found out THAT's why she was scumreading me

also Titus you never responded to this right

Not going to quote my ISO opening again.

[GuiltyLion]

I like/agree with Prism on Cabd

I could have possibly bought the "very obviously town" phrasing as intentionally spicy to provoke discussion, but Cabd getting defensive about it and doubling down afterwards points away from that idea. Feels most likely to be Cabd buddying catboi to me

GL scumread worse. All attack, no teamwork.

I already addressed this. I'm literally trying to work with Prism (then a townread) and iterate my support for what PRISM had said about Cabd, because I scumread Cabd and wanted focus and pressure on him. That's not "attacking for attacking sake", that's expressing a scumread and FoSing them.

And also, you said LLD said this well. LLD never implied I was "attacking for attacking sake", at least that I can recall. Where did she "lay out" this same point?

You're in a really deep tunnel and you need to get out of it

[Titus]

Then Datisi can provide evidence of your push on NorwegianboyEE prior to his FoS or more mentions prior to your swap. I am looking for more evidence of your innocence but wind up casing you more.

I strongly feel town you would be voting Adante rather than voting obvtown.

[GuiltyLion]

I think that it was written to make me feel better about myself and deviate towards her. She says 'but i enjoyed his posts so far and i dont think any of them seem off'. Since we don't know each other, I should have found it weird that she thought that asking Firebringer why he enjoyed being on the sidelines, and making comments on what I read, was considered enjoyable.

I do agree 385 is a weird post, I guess what I'm trying to understand is why should I see this as scum!marci-town!RH9 instead of scum!marci-scum!RH9?


The conversation started here:

RH9 seems okay

Alyssa says she'd dance with you, somewhat out of the blue

RH9 seems okay

uh. how.

Datisi questions this

RH9 seems okay

uh. how.

How what

how is anything he posted remotely close to being "okay"

He seems okay as a dance partner

Alyssa clarifies

RH9 is significantly more reticent than I would expect from him as town. Normally he's very expressive and inquisitive, even if indecisive and prone to discursive tangents.

I'm not sure if I'll be back tonight or not, but I can check in again tomorrow at the latest.

Prism disagrees with Alyssa, citing her previous experience with you

Then marci jumps in and expresses that she disagrees.

We know now that Prism is town. Why does scum!marci argue with town!Prism to say that you are town? What benefit does she get from that if you are town?

It's easy for me to imagine a narrative where scum!marci wants scum!RH9 to pair with Alyssa as town to force town!Alyssa out of the game if you are limmed, or to give you a shot at endgaming if you aren't. It's also possible scum!marci wants scum!you to pair with scum!Alyssa to set up an S-S pair and have it not feel too unnatural (far less likely than the first explanation, but still possible)

So I'm not seeing the benefit to marci to townread you in this way if you're not on her team, and I'm not seeing why I shouldn't be afraid of this as scum!marci trying to keep you in town's good graces and set you up with a desirable pair

[GuiltyLion]

Then Datisi can provide evidence of your push on NorwegianboyEE prior to his FoS or more mentions prior to your swap. I am looking for more evidence of your innocence but wind up casing you more.

I strongly feel town you would be voting Adante rather than voting obvtown.

she will, because it's there, we had a discussion about Norwee/marci slot and I even referenced this in 4274 when you asked me about it.

Who is the obvtown that I'm voting? RH9 is not obvtown and neither is Alyssa

[GuiltyLion]

I'm sorry, *he will

[RH9]

you can't just claim you were pocketed whenever you townread scum

you need to show what things they said specifically with intent to get you in particular to townread them

and I already called out since the beginning of the game how weird it was that marci said she "enjoyed" your posts when you hadn't really posted anything. Frankly RH9 I don't think you are a slot that scum need to pocket, your townread basically everyone and you don't champion eliminations on players that you scumread

Scum do. scum!Galron and scum!fferyllt did in Pair 2250. Actually, scum!fferyllt didn't really pocket but rather did a great emulation of what I wanted Town to do.

[GuiltyLion]

but I'm not scum, so who is the endgame wolf?

last thought before I'm out for a while

I been thinking if Alyssa is town, maybe scum!marci and scum!RH9 wanted to pair with strong town players in LLD/Alyssa to force the either 1) they leave before endgame or 2) we win dichotomy, and catboi was the endgame scum. and then when catboi replaced out Shiro was basically forced to try to pair with HQ and hardpocket her to continue being the endgame scum

in that world last wolf could be either Andante/STD, doesn't really matter too much

[RH9]

GL, why I am finding myself wanting to talk to Datisi more than you? He feels more open.

[Datisi]

Datisi, can you compare the timestamps of the readwall and the voteswap and discuss how the NorwegianboyEE swap happened. GL's ISO doesn't justify it. The vote has reasoning which I need to check, but on its own it's worrying. Also, please comment on how much discussion, if any, came after Norwee's FoS of you guys.

right, lemme go take a look.

3143 - Tue Dec 21, 2021 6:30:09 am
3519 - Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:18:34 pm
3528 - Tue Dec 21, 2021 8:48:20 pm

prior to 3143:

there wasn't much talk about norwee in the pt. mostly it was gl saying he thought 2387 was a genuine townslip (which i disagreed with), saying 2426 is a fakeable townslip, saying 2546 is maybe townie but he's unsure bc sass, and us both agreeing that we need to actually talk about norwee.

in between 3143 and 3519:

shortly after he posted 3143 in the main thread, he did say in the pt (in a bigger wallpost of reads) that his norwee read is tanking. he thought fire was right about norwee's read on harley being sus, and that 2994 is a scummy post and that it seems like, if harley is town, norwee is attempting to pocket her. i say i want to talk abt norwee but that i don't consider the "i hard townread harley" to be necessarily scummy because it was pretty similar to how norwee townread mastina in mbos:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12942314
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12942416

he said it's similar and that it's prob nai then. very shortly before posting 3519, he said how he's feeling lost and started wondering if marci is the scum in his blindspot (he was townreading her up to that point), and mentioned it's weird that marci and norwee aren't giving updated reads on each other. so i think that's why he posted 3519.

in between 3519 and 3528:

i mentioned how i was thinking of voting marci/norwee bc i was running out of ideas. that's all in this timeframe.

shortly after he voted, in conversation he said how he thought a norwee/marci vote would be game advancing, and then commented how norwee's reactions to the vote are Not Good.

i'm assuming that by norwee's fos on us, you're referring to 3014.

3014 - Tue Dec 21, 2021 1:16:25 am - this wasn't commented on at all by either of us, we didn't really talk about norwee from 3014 to 3143. (there was lingering conversation about norwee's "townslip" but nothing of actual substance.)