Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

[Aristeia]

I am just happy Tanner is town <3

[Lukewarm]

Gate

Tanner

His plan for the keep does nothing for me reading it back, because that plan wins it for town tanner and for scum tanner, so he could very much want that plan either way.

21 feels

off

to me. like the "I want you to be town, bit it's obviously too early to tell" feels... idk if performative is the right word, maybe forced?

I also don't like his interaction with Ari 72 and 74 72 feels like a lot of words to say nothing, but then to drop his town lean on Ari for some reason.

I am strugling to see the town motivation behind

why would your read of me even matter if I am going to be voting for you?

those are words that aren't yet actions, and i'm still not sure if i will be calling that bluff.

His response here does not make sense to me. Her "bluff" is that she is going to vote for him, which if she is telling the truth wins the game for him regardless of his alignment. If she is "bluffing" what is the concern for town Tanner? IF she is scum bluffing, then she you give her voting power, and town tanner wins. IF she is town bluffing, then she is giving voting power, and tanner is in a 1v1 with the other person in the keep - which is where he later says that he wants to be, the person in the 1v1, not the person making the vote

depends on whether i'm the person 1v1'ing or if i'm the person deciding the vote. if i'm the one 1v1'ing, i've never lost. if i'm deciding, i've never decided correctly. which is why i wanted to go to keep and why i want to avoid the gate at all costs. and why i'll probably end up there.

So this worry about "calling her bluff" feels more like scum tanner, worried that if he acceprts her offer, she will scum read him for it and then vote the other person.

-Also, all the things I brought up day one about his game choice
-Also, also, his attempt to force the implo, baltar, imafin game felt contrived
-Also, also, also - him jumping to the gate, after I said that I did not think that town tanner would want the all bothers me.

Maybe I just conf biased myself, but looking back over his iso, I'm pretty sure he is scum.


imaginality

His 87 entrance is a mixed bag for me.

I like his question for toog. Like his response to me, and I like that he is advocating for us to not give up on implo's plan just because me and ari were locked in at that point.

But on the other hand, His response to numberQ felt forced, like he was looking for something to comment on. Not a fan of "any early reads" question at the top of page 2. I also don't like that he has an idea for how to sort the game, his nomination method, that he mentions but never brings it up again.


I like 159

Like the mech points in 172 about game resolution

Really don't liek 193. Combo of the shade at Ari and the linking up with Toog, both give me hives.

His back and forth with Tanner over the mix up, was... weird. But, I don't think that it happens with tanner/imaginality if they are s/s.

His Ari and Tanner S/S idea is also... weird. Not sure if it is scummy, but definitly weird.

283 is the best post of the game lol

I like 209

First person I fell like I have a less then definitive read on. Like, in a vacuum, I think I would lean scum here, slightly? But I also see a lot of interactions with Tanner that I dont think come from s/s, so that is helping him some from my pov.

So, null I guess?


Baltar

Baltar has some weird interactions with Tanner, where he first says he doesn't care where he goes, but then makes multiple posts about being in the same game with Tanner. Not really sure how to feel about that. Definitly worse if Tanner is town (one way to gurantee that the day 1 auto loss never happens is to get any townie to agree to go to the same place as you)

Huh, just saw in Baltar's iso that he asked implo about the scum chat before he posted it - did not realize when I was isoing implo since he did not post it as a response to baltar's question. That kinda undoes that little worry about implo pointing it out for us to see that he was being genuine.

Don't like

I kind of agree with Aris that first movers probably have +scum due to the simple fact scum have more direct incentive to move first.

In post 135, implosion wrote:
(and also... keep in mind that in that game scum moved 2nd yes, but the rest of the first 5 people to move were town)

My point is there is more likely to be a scum among the first movers due to the desire to prevent a lockout.

I agree first first mover is probably slightly +town.

Ari was actively trying to say I was scum for voting first, and he agreed with Ari (at the time only me and ari had voted in, so I doubt he thought ari was calling herself scum) - But immediately 180'ed to say that my vote was +town once he got push back on it. Which feels like one or both of those those thoughts were not genuine, and it does not feel like he was actually trying to sort me because he was not applying these thoughts to me, the actual first voter, he seemed to be talking about it in the abstract. Do not like.

His sudden strong town read on imaginality feels like it was pulled out of a hat.

257 does not make sense to me - I asked him about it (286), but he never responded :/

I feel like most of his iso leaves me feeling empty, little thoughts about him one way or another.

I want to say scum here. The early stuff with tanner would be weird for partners tho? Maybe distancing, but then they really did end up at the same place... hmm.

[/u]Reread verdict if there is no swap[/u]
I think it is Tanner. I don't feel great about either of the others, but I think it is just Tanner here.

But if either of the others swap out, then they are people I would give a second look over

[Lukewarm]

The Wall

Toog

I mentioned before that I like Toog's entrance for town.

His iso feels a little more barren on an iso-read vs a real time read though.

I still think it is +town that he did not engage with me on possibly joining the keep. Obviously scum!toog could not jump in, but me voicing a town lean on him, mentioning him joining the keep, and then me and ari getting into a 1v1 - that would have had to have been an appealing slot for scum!toog, and I would have expected him to at least test the waters on joining, asking about if he should, ect. Instead there was radio silence.

Again, there is not a ton more in his iso... so I would say that I am leaning town here, but not as strongly as I had Ari or Implo.


DArby / Pav (hi Pav )

So, I decided to check if he site wide flaked.

He was force replaced Dec 22, 10 am. He was online posting in another game (that has since ended) on the 22nd, 1 am. So he was here on site, and chose not to pick up his prod :/

But when he was here:
-he tried to throw a random wifom arguement that me and ari could be s/s insta locking into the keep (50).
-Said he would be hard to read, at least I think that is what he was saying (65)
-called me scummy (149)
-a mech post I guess (150)

Obviously there is not much to go on, and I might be biased since his

only

read was that I was scummy, but this does not look good to me.

Pav, if you are town you've got your work cut out for you


numberQ

first three posts all feel like nothing posts

Liked his DArby thoughts in 281

numberQ's stances around mine and tanners 1v1 feel off.

Tanner's a stronger TR for me than Luke. I disagree with this point
{snip}
To me, the evolution of Tanner's thought process here only looks unnatural when it's cherry picked like this.

I don't like that this is phrased in a way that does not actually give a read on me - like he left himself room to say that meant that I was a weaker tr, or that I was a sr. It almost feels like the first line is saying that I am a weaker TR, but then saying it looked like I cherry picked my points seems like it implies I am scummy.

And then in 361

Lukewarm and Tanner are both being very persuasive right now imo. Does anyone else have a take on all this? Because I think there's 1 scum between them, but I keep going back and forth on who it is.

This progression feels weird.

The rest of his iso feels empty. Even when posting, it feels like its just mech talk.

[/u]Reread verdict if there is no swap[/u]
Of these three, I think that DArby and numberQ end up cross voting and Toog decides.

I don't know how one even decides here tho...

I think that the best solution is for this game to always go last, and for toog to force number and pav to weigh in heavily on both other games. The dream being that we win the other two, and this game never needs to be resolved.

But otherwise, the decision will have to come from their associations on the first two games.

[Lukewarm]

Obviously, my Tanner stuff can be ignored... But the rest is basically where I am at with everyone else.

[Tanner]

Maybe I just conf biased myself, but looking back over his iso, I'm pretty sure he is scum.

good case, i'm convinced

[Lukewarm]

Oh GOD I'm at the keep with Luke

LUKE

IS THIS THE GAME

Hi Pav

If you are asking if I think that this is the game that we are both town... To be real with you, your predecessor has not done you any favors.

[Lukewarm]

Did you read the game over the night phase pav?

[Lukewarm]

Looking at the games list post swap, my gut reaction is that the scum team is Pav, numberQ, + 1 from the Gate.

I need to look back at the two in the Gate now that I know Tanner is town. I remember that they both has weird interactions with him.

[Pavowski]

The Wall

Toog

I mentioned before that I like Toog's entrance for town.

His iso feels a little more barren on an iso-read vs a real time read though.

I still think it is +town that he did not engage with me on possibly joining the keep. Obviously scum!toog could not jump in, but me voicing a town lean on him, mentioning him joining the keep, and then me and ari getting into a 1v1 - that would have had to have been an appealing slot for scum!toog, and I would have expected him to at least test the waters on joining, asking about if he should, ect. Instead there was radio silence.

Again, there is not a ton more in his iso... so I would say that I am leaning town here, but not as strongly as I had Ari or Implo.


DArby / Pav (hi Pav )

So, I decided to check if he site wide flaked.

He was force replaced Dec 22, 10 am. He was online posting in another game (that has since ended) on the 22nd, 1 am. So he was here on site, and chose not to pick up his prod :/

But when he was here:
-he tried to throw a random wifom arguement that me and ari could be s/s insta locking into the keep (50).
-Said he would be hard to read, at least I think that is what he was saying (65)
-called me scummy (149)
-a mech post I guess (150)

Obviously there is not much to go on, and I might be biased since his

only

read was that I was scummy, but this does not look good to me.

Pav, if you are town you've got your work cut out for you


numberQ

first three posts all feel like nothing posts

Liked his DArby thoughts in 281

numberQ's stances around mine and tanners 1v1 feel off.

Tanner's a stronger TR for me than Luke. I disagree with this point
{snip}
To me, the evolution of Tanner's thought process here only looks unnatural when it's cherry picked like this.

I don't like that this is phrased in a way that does not actually give a read on me - like he left himself room to say that meant that I was a weaker tr, or that I was a sr. It almost feels like the first line is saying that I am a weaker TR, but then saying it looked like I cherry picked my points seems like it implies I am scummy.

And then in 361

Lukewarm and Tanner are both being very persuasive right now imo. Does anyone else have a take on all this? Because I think there's 1 scum between them, but I keep going back and forth on who it is.

This progression feels weird.

The rest of his iso feels empty. Even when posting, it feels like its just mech talk.

[/u]Reread verdict if there is no swap[/u]
Of these three, I think that DArby and numberQ end up cross voting and Toog decides.

I don't know how one even decides here tho...

I think that the best solution is for this game to always go last, and for toog to force number and pav to weigh in heavily on both other games. The dream being that we win the other two, and this game never needs to be resolved.

But otherwise, the decision will have to come from their associations on the first two games.

I shouldn't speak for DArby too much, but I was in another game with him which was in its final stages when I was contacted to rep into the slot. That's all I can say about it though.

That being said, I'm not worried, my towniness always shines thru, except when it doesn't

So either scum!Luke pulled me over here thinking he can get me mislimmed (entirely likely and my leading theory) or scum!Aristeia figures scummy reads on Darby will be enough to sway Luke.

[Pavowski]

No wait I forgot my minigame is different here, recalibrating

[Lukewarm]

Was getting ready to ask if you understood the keep mechanics lol

[Pavowski]

Did you read the game over the night phase pav?

Yes but that was a few days ago and y'know, Christmas overeating coma, so I am more or less starting fresh here

[Lukewarm]

Pav, tell me why I shouldn't just vote for Ari here?

pedit: oh.

[Pavowski]

Was getting ready to ask if you understood the keep mechanics lol

Yeah getting swapped threw me. Ok.

We don't have to get scum here, we just have to find town. This is easy and makes me think even more that Luke is scum, because I know he thinks (knows) he can look townier than me.

Unless he votes me here.

That's an open invitation, Luke

[Pavowski]

Ari is chaotic and you hate chaos. Vote Pav, vote for the future.

[Aristeia]

Pavo who do you think is mafia at the keep?

[Lukewarm]

I believe that the best strat for the Keep is to collectively, meaning everyone not just the people in the keep, to chose who we think is most likely to be scum, and then give that player the choice of who they are going to vote between the other two.

So, this mini games will play out one of a few ways:

The scum is given vote power, and we always win.
I am given vote power, and I am trying to read the other two (functionally the same as being the IC in the gate)
The other townie in the keep is given vote power, and I have to town it up. I am at least somewhat confident in my ability to do that.

This is how we are playing the keep

[Pavowski]

Luke is my top suspect just given the fact I got swapped.

[Aristeia]

We don't have to get scum here, we just have to find town. This is easy and makes me think even more that Luke is scum, because I know he thinks (knows) he can look townier than me.

?

If you think Luke is scum why wouldn't you just vote for me?

Do you think Luke is bluffing about voting for me to convince you to vote for him?

[Pavowski]

I believe that the best strat for the Keep is to collectively, meaning everyone not just the people in the keep, to chose who we think is most likely to be scum, and then give that player the choice of who they are going to vote between the other two.

So, this mini games will play out one of a few ways:

The scum is given vote power, and we always win.
I am given vote power, and I am trying to read the other two (functionally the same as being the IC in the gate)
The other townie in the keep is given vote power, and I have to town it up. I am at least somewhat confident in my ability to do that.

This is how we are playing the keep

Is this, like, an agreed-upon strat or is it a gentleman's agreement? I'll honor this if it's how the group wants to play it

[Lukewarm]

I said that, and then implo said something similar. Pretty sure that is the safest way for us to play this, gives us a fail safe if we are wrong on our top suspect

[Pavowski]

We don't have to get scum here, we just have to find town. This is easy and makes me think even more that Luke is scum, because I know he thinks (knows) he can look townier than me.

?

If you think Luke is scum why wouldn't you just vote for me?

Do you think Luke is bluffing about voting for me to convince you to vote for him?

Top suspect doesn't mean I'm convinced yet. Luke could bluff about just about anything.

[Lukewarm]

I'll honor this if it's how the group wants to play it

Do you think there is something wrong with playing it this way? If yes, what?

[Aristeia]

Luke does seem very earnest and honest though

[Lukewarm]

Yeah getting swapped threw me. Ok.

Did you put much thought into your original game. You, numberq, toog at the wall