open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[skitter30]

This post kind of rubs me the wrong way; but not overly so due to the previous posts from them

in what sense?

[skitter30]

I may have messed up a bit, since my counts don't exactly match Hoopla's. But this is what I've got.

1st - 1 1 2 5 6 8
2nd - 3 3 5 6 9
3rd - 8 9 10 11
4th - 1 13 15 22
5th - 1 4 8 9 12 18 69 413
6th - 1 6 20
7th - 3 5 5 42
8th - 2
9th - 1 2 3 4 4 10
10th - 1 7
11th - 6 11
12th - 1
13th - 1 2
14th - 4 4 4 6

i'm p confident i picked 42 as scum 2x so i think you're missing one of htose games / my pick in one of those games

[Datisi]

VOTE: skitter

here's a thought. i dislike the way skitter went from townreading me for ??? reasons to walking back from it. frankly it kinda mirrors the thread in a weird way. i can imagine scum!skitter starting the game off with townreading me because i'm generally a loud townspew-y player so why get into that mess when she can try to get on my good side early. but once she realized i'm *not* getting townread? "nevermind datisi isn't townie anymore".

i don't like the callouts for being "defensive" either. because she started off with agreeing with catboi that i was being conciliatory towards nsg's scumread on me (and with the implication that that's scummy), and then it turned into me being overly defensive of the scumread. don't those two things have the opposite meaning? it feels opportunistic, like she's grabbing onto the general scumreads on me before i turn them over and making sure that doesn't happen. i don't like it.

- i liked your early game, and you were giving me similar vibes to what i've often seen from early-town-you. i'm not sure tbh why you find that read to be quite shocking
- given that you *don't* think that you're being townie for you, i'm also not sure why you have a problem with me changing my mind
- in this pl you wouldn't be a high priority person to buddy for scum-me imo, i don't think i would really put much, if any, thought into trying to avoid 'getting into that mess' by 'getting on your good side early'
- if that *was* my plan i certainly wouldn't lol-reverse it just because some people are calling you scummy, i'd probably wk you ...
- i'm lowkey surprised that you think this is the tactic that i'd take as scum (particularly the bit where i'd reverse course so suddenly)
- i think you were trying to deflect nsg's scurmead but like in a non-aggressive way. it isn't 'classically' defensive but you were trying to get her a bit off of your back i think, so it read as defensive to me

- i found it "shocking" because i think (i haven't gone back to check the potions game) i've seen you call scum!me relaxed early, and frankly i have no clue whether those posts "should" be townie or not because it was mostly memeing and banter. so i didn't get why you were thinking i was townie there, and considering you didn't exactly explain how it differs from my intros as scum.
- you started changing your mind before i said it, which means it wasn't in reaction to it. like my problem is that your change of the read could be driven by the change of the thread atmosphere towards me
- i don't think it's a stretch to say that i am a pretty difficult person to eliminate as town, most of the time. and that i can use my townread status to drive the game forward
- why are you surprised about it? do you think i should have some background knowledge on why scum!you doesn't do this?
- the point on what the words mean is fine and all, but it doesn't resolve my bigger problem which is that i feel like you should know that i tend to get quite defensive about scumreads/votes on me as town so you calling that out about me is ??? weird?

[skitter30]

(I also had the incredibly dumb idea of "what if Mare and Faker taking shots at each other was scum theater" but lmao probably not)

probably not indeed

[skitter30]

okay, i guess it does make sense how it can be called defensive while also calling my read on nsg placating. i usually associate the word "defensive" in mafia with attacking someone for their read and calling it bad, which isn't actually what the word means.

i mean this, i think at least part of your complaint is a semantics issue but you're using the word wrong

[skitter30]

In case I must reiterate given the quotes: my issue is not with him catching-up. It is with him making the same kind of read/post on someone as he did as scum.

counterpoint: slaugherhouse
literally nai

How is it NAI.

because i just gave you a town example of him doing the exact thing he's doing here that you're scumreading him for because he did the hsame in a scumgame?

how is this scum indicative for him? it's indicative that he's busy irl ...

(inb4 catboi informs me he's experiencing deja vu etc etc etc)

[skitter30]

"I think this post is tonally gross!" Votes.

"This post bothers me tonally!" Votes.

and this is so shallow too ........

[skitter30]

Another observation is Andante immediately jumped on the numbers when used against her to swing at everyone else/deflect.

>.>
you're feeling a bit off tbh

Want to slapfight me so you can figure it out sooner rather than later that I'm not off?

i mean sure
i think your case/vote on cakez is really bad

[Mare]

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

[catboi]

In case I must reiterate given the quotes: my issue is not with him catching-up. It is with him making the same kind of read/post on someone as he did as scum.

counterpoint: slaugherhouse
literally nai

How is it NAI.

because i just gave you a town example of him doing the exact thing he's doing here that you're scumreading him for because he did the hsame in a scumgame?

how is this scum indicative for him? it's indicative that he's busy irl ...

(inb4 catboi informs me he's experiencing deja vu etc etc etc)

Kind of but "the stuff you're voting him for is a nulltell and it's a bad case" is different from "noo he's so townie you're wrong"

[Mare]

And, let me say, once more.

I really don't give a fuck if he's catching up. People do it. I dislike it. Whatever.

I dislike what he's saying.

[skitter30]

- i found it "shocking" because i think (i haven't gone back to check the potions game) i've seen you call scum!me relaxed early, and frankly i have no clue whether those posts "should" be townie or not because it was mostly memeing and banter. so i didn't get why you were thinking i was townie there, and considering you didn't exactly explain how it differs from my intros as scum.
- you started changing your mind before i said it, which means it wasn't in reaction to it. like my problem is that your change of the read could be driven by the change of the thread atmosphere towards me
- i don't think it's a stretch to say that i am a pretty difficult person to eliminate as town, most of the time. and that i can use my townread status to drive the game forward
- why are you surprised about it? do you think i should have some background knowledge on why scum!you doesn't do this?
- the point on what the words mean is fine and all, but it doesn't resolve my bigger problem which is that i feel like you should know that i tend to get quite defensive about scumreads/votes on me as town so you calling that out about me is ??? weird?

- i don't remember what your game in potions looked like, so i't snot really something i'm actively taking into account or comparing against ... you felt similar to the vibes i liked from other town games of yours. then you stopped (and according ot you you never had those vibes to begin with), so the townread lessened
- again i don't know why you think the thread atmosphere would be relevant to the approach i'd be taking towards you as scum, the way you're envisioning me approaching this is not how i would
- sure, you're difficult to eliminate as town. so's half hte pl, why is scum-you worrying about you so much
-one of the things i care about as scum is having a clean, irreproachable trajectory. what you're describing is very much not that
- because, kinda lke catboi said, you were kinda half-defending but in a way that was nonaggressive, sort of by buddying up to nsg a bit by agreeing with her on her main points, and then pivoting to why she should not be scumreading you anyways. that looks like you want to deflect her read without *getting into the weeds* or *getting into too much of a conflict* with her

[skitter30]

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

i mean your visceral feeling is: a) not something you brought up as part of any of this earlier in this convo b) not something that i feel/vibe/have any opinion on
so it's just like ok?

and my response is basically, again, you're scumreading him for something that's nai, and i'm a little surprised that you're not seeing why i think it's nai

[Mare]

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

i mean your visceral feeling is: a) not something you brought up as part of any of this earlier in this convo b) not something that i feel/vibe/have any opinion on
so it's just like ok?

and my response is basically, again, you're scumreading him for something that's nai, and i'm a little surprised that you're not seeing why i think it's nai

I don't believe the things he's saying are NAI. To say you dislike/like something, to invoke tone, means you are providing your opinions on someone. And that's AI.

[skitter30]

Kind of but "the stuff you're voting him for is a nulltell and it's a bad case" is different from "noo he's so townie you're wrong"

fair enuf!
and yeah i wouldn't really argue that he's townie (or scummy) here, so much as he's done nothing ai and pushing him is kinda ? to me

[Mare]

To say "I dislike this, I find it weird," to place a vote because of that? How is that NAI?

[Mare]

Like you want to be ? but you're sitting here saying that he hasn't done anything AI which is patently false soooo.

[Mare]

VOTE: Skitter30

[Datisi]

i'm trying to think if it's fair to say "since when the hell do you think my scumgame is about *avoiding* conflict" and i don't think i have any immediate examples for why it *would* be fair to say that to you, i.e. what you should be familiar with

what do you think about me alignment-wise from all this? i feel like you're responding for responding's sake but i don't actually, like, see you *reading* anything from it

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Hi everyone. I pretty much agree with Datisi’s thoughts on flow trap not being w/w with SS. It is more likely than not that scum has someone who was aware of SS pattern, but not guaranteed. Having meta numbers seems a little broken lol

this post kinda bothers me tonally. it feels too agreeable (ok and not just because they said I agree with Datisi)

VOTE: midwaybear

I am not saying we should not do the raids. I am saying we should let the entire game check in first.

VOTE: mirio
This post gives me tonally gross vibes

Same exact vibe which made me instantly suspect him in a previous game. Same exact slow catching up with eh takes as the previous game. Mediocre draft placement.

SirScumz strikes again.

I'm going to hammer I guess. I think we need a flip, or at least a view of how these days are going to go down.

I don't like this post

why?

Just a tonal waffle

I was pumped to see a few pages to read, but still didnt find anything I really wanted to bite into. Sadface.

Pls stop pediting me

yeah ceph is scum

VOTE: cephrir

ok how are posts like this drastically different?

[skitter30]

VOTE: Skitter30

okdoke
VOTE: mare

[skitter30]

Like you want to be ? but you're sitting here saying that he hasn't done anything AI which is patently false soooo.

that's not what i said, i said the things you're pushing him for are nai
(incidentally i also don't think he's done anything ai but i also haven't said that)

[catboi]

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

i mean your visceral feeling is: a) not something you brought up as part of any of this earlier in this convo b) not something that i feel/vibe/have any opinion on
so it's just like ok?

and my response is basically, again, you're scumreading him for something that's nai, and i'm a little surprised that you're not seeing why i think it's nai

I don't believe the things he's saying are NAI. To say you dislike/like something, to invoke tone, means you are providing your opinions on someone. And that's AI.

And I'm saying I don't think him invoking tone is scummy and taking a single game is essentially cherrypicked - I think most people are going to word things similarly regardless of alignment

And I was searching through his post history to try to find an example of him doing it as town and the first one I found was another scum game, so, lmao

[Mare]

The wording of it?

"This post"/"this post".

Distancing himself from his thoughts/things he's saying when he's immediately saying it.

[Mare]

Like you want to be ? but you're sitting here saying that he hasn't done anything AI which is patently false soooo.

that's not what i said, i said the things you're pushing him for are nai
(incidentally i also don't think he's done anything ai but i also haven't said that)

Kind of but "the stuff you're voting him for is a nulltell and it's a bad case" is different from "noo he's so townie you're wrong"

fair enuf!
and yeah i wouldn't really argue that he's townie (or scummy) here,

so much as he's done nothing ai

and pushing him is kinda ? to me

Nope! You said the things he's done aren't AI!