Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

[Aristeia]

tanner your adorable <3

there's basically no world in which it makes sense for you to post that case on VpB if you are both in the Gate together

[Lukewarm]

RH9 - how much of the game have you read? My iso? Pavs iso? Looked at town or scum cases against either of us?

Or are you just trying to be contrary?

And what is your thoughts on numberQ / Implo.

I would have expected that to be your main focus coming into the game, since they are the ones sharing a minigame with you

[VP Baltar]

yeah. imagined i was gonna walk into the game, see that you're the ic, still post my case because what else am i to do, and i'll be called out as "suspicious that you have a towncase on the person that just so happened to be the ic, huh?"

Got you. I mean for me personally not sure I would have read that one way or the other.

It is like Luke's scum case on you. Seems weird to post it, but doesn't really go into my read because it can be fake.

[Tanner]

there's basically no world in which it makes sense for you to post that case on VpB if you are both in the Gate together

sorry, what does this mean?

[Lukewarm]

I don't like RH's entrance. And not just because he is calling me scum (for reasons I don't understand). But also, not how I would expect town to be approaching repping into this game.

[Aristeia]

well you r either 1v1 baltar

baltar is ic

or you are ic

your towncase on him is useless in all worlds

[Lukewarm]

First post was awkward, then branching out to be contrary in a different game, and nothing on his own game

[Tanner]

yeah, i am aware. which is why i expected either him to be ic'ed, or for one of us to get moved. and the fact that neither happened is like

like i said i was townreading baltar and i said that i felt like he was gonna get ic'ed and that that would be a waste

and then i wake up to see i'm ic'ed?

[Aristeia]

to put it another way

the point of a towncase on someone is to convince other people that this person is town

there is no world in which you need to convince others that Baltar is town..

[Tanner]

it's not like i can just ignore the thoughts that came to me, though

but that's not even the main point here

[Aristeia]

yes thats why i said you are adooorbs <3

[imaginality]

ok but what's the point of applying pressure to me?

I am gathering information to make reads off.

I don't really care if the scum think they are going to play off that because I almost never put all my thoughts on the table until I'm ready to push something.

I will go all out tunneling someone to see how they act and then call them town. Ill flip on locktown reads ive had all game if i see something solidly scummy. Good luck to scum trying to plan off my reads, because even I can't do that.

Also it's not like he posted his "this is how I play as town" post unprompted, it was a defence to Ari asking him why he backed off his line of questioning of her.

hm? wasn't that when she was asking him why he's questioning her in the first place?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It sounds to me (maybe I'm wrong?) like some of why you're giving him town cred for describing his townplay is you see it as unprovoked. But his post was in the context of that to-and-fro. It wasn't unprovoked.

Contrast with implosion's optimal strategy post which was posted unprovoked.

[Lukewarm]

Re:Tanner's case on Baltar

I am unsure why you becoming IC changes your read on him?

Looking at the case itself - I think that him having drop of the hat read changes is probably +town, and I agree that scum!baltar would probably angle more for a clear trajectory. But him just saying that he can do that is less persuasive, I think?

Since this has been on your mind, have you noticed him doing that this game? I might iso him for read progression now

[Lukewarm]

I find it strange that no one else responded to RH's posts, or to my posts to him. Definitely the most interesting thing that has happened in the last couple pages from my PoV, so seems weird to see it go ignored.

[imaginality]

yeah, i am aware. which is why i expected either him to be ic'ed, or for one of us to get moved. and the fact that neither happened is like

like i said i was townreading baltar and i said that i felt like he was gonna get ic'ed and that that would be a waste

and then i wake up to see i'm ic'ed?

I doubt VP thought he was getting town read to that extent for that particular post. Like if you're saying this makes you wonder if he's scum who ICed you because you town read him, well yep! that's true! ,

I just don't think he would have seen your read of that post as a specific super-important factor in that town read. More just a general sense you town read him more than me.

[Tanner]

anyway, here's the thing. if i'm going by my own reads and nothing else, i vote imaginality here without question. his wall of "objective" reasons why vp is scum was... oh boy (though it's forgivable considering town can very much get confbiased when they're casing someone they know is scum), but 971 is. i don't like using buzzwords but it feels very IIoA-y. it actually reminds me of something scum!me would write. for like half the wall, i felt like i was reading at it was like, ok i get it, he did this, she did that, where's the conclusion behind this?

which is also why i asked lukewarm what he thinks and he said he thought it was townie (what???) but i think some other have also expressed they're leaning baltar > imaginality and they can't all be scum so it's possible i am the one who's pocketed and confbiased to shit. especially as i feel like baltar is out of scumrange here. like the post on why ari/imaginality are partners - i think something like that is difficult to fake.

but. but but but. prior to going into the night, my public read was "those two are partners, but if they're t/s, imaginality is the s". and does scum!imaginality do this to himself? ic the person that said that they think he's scum and the person who he's supposed to 1v1 is town?

[Tanner]

I just don't think he would have seen your read of that post as a specific super-important factor in that town read. More just a general sense you town read him more than me.

nah, i'm aware there's no way that baltar could've guessed i would've found 414 to be an Extremely Townie post. but i expressed a townread on him beforehand so

[imaginality]

i think it's likely baltar is townie too. 11, 49, and 57 are obviously angling to go to the same location as me. he knows how paranoid i get of him and how i'm sometimes prone to think he's scum for most bullshit reasons, see that pick your poison game. so unless he's the same petty asshole i am, he's probably town.

this is a post that i myself did write a week ago i GUESS

i'm starting to wonder why did i even /in into this game, considering i utterly hate lylos as town and have never won one when i was the deciding vote. i think i might really be a masochist.

Going to the gate means you don't have to do that

do you remember what the idea was behind this post?

These posts are interesting since they show you have a +town read of VP for wanting to be at the same location as you. So VP could have taken that into account when we decided the locations.

Would scum!Baltar really want to place himself at the gate with him + imaginality + miselim bait, and be foreced to IC either imaginality or miselim bait over Tanner?

Yeah, that scenario sounds way easier. I would just IC imaginality and then get the easier player tossed. How is that not a way easier scenario than going into a situation with someone who regularly grills me in games where I am town?

I'd also note here that VP first proposed me+him+DArby/Pav, Tanner was just listed as an alternative. And from a scum!VP perspective DArby/Pav is very much mislim bait if town. So if DArby/Pav is town, VP's first option was what he himself says is a 'way easier scenario' and his backup option was a player who he knows will town read him for being at the same location. Flipping Keep first will confirm if DArby/Pav is town or not.

@Tanner - reposting this since it's a few pages back now and I'm keen for you to consider this (the second part)

[Pavowski]

I find it strange that no one else responded to RH's posts, or to my posts to him. Definitely the most interesting thing that has happened in the last couple pages from my PoV, so seems weird to see it go ignored.

Yeah, his entry is definitely odd.

He's townreading me, for one thing

[Aristeia]

the post on why ari/imaginality are partners - i think something like that is difficult to fake

That post doesn't even make sense.

Why would scum!me make scum!imaginality's life much harder by hard-shading VPB and being nice to imaginality? It's absurd.

[Tanner]

@Tanner - reposting this since it's a few pages back now and I'm keen for you to consider this (the second part)

i'm considering it. it's probably the best case you have written for vp being scum throughout this entire game not gonna lie

[Tanner]

I find it strange that no one else responded to RH's posts, or to my posts to him. Definitely the most interesting thing that has happened in the last couple pages from my PoV, so seems weird to see it go ignored.

i wanted to give the dude time to like, iso everyone and then present his thoughts. my first thought was "surely scum isn't this clueless when they enter the game" but i can't actually say that with any degree of certainty

[VP Baltar]

I think we should flip the gate first maybe since it is the most discussed and my reads will bear fruit when my alignment is public

[Lukewarm]

which is also why i asked lukewarm what he thinks and he said he thought it was townie (what???)

It was more that I agreed with all of the points, and it ended up aligning with my own reads.

So it kind of felt like he was thinking about the game the same was that I was.

Or else, he was actively trying to build up to having the exact same reads as me? For some reason?

[imaginality]

anyway, here's the thing. if i'm going by my own reads and nothing else, i vote imaginality here without question. his wall of "objective" reasons why vp is scum was... oh boy (though it's forgivable considering town can very much get confbiased when they're casing someone they know is scum), but 971 is. i don't like using buzzwords but it feels very IIoA-y. it actually reminds me of something scum!me would write. for like half the wall, i felt like i was reading at it was like, ok i get it, he did this, she did that, where's the conclusion behind this?

Hmm. I won't repost the entire wall but might try to make my points clearer, I guess.

I did say at the start that VP is playing a good game - I don't think he would have 1v1ed me if he thought I could make a strong case against him.

I think he waited for someone to post suspicions about him + someone else that would give him a good match up so he could build his allocations post around it. And saw your posts about us being buddies and leapt onto that.