Open 840 - Guardians of the Fortress [Game Over]

[VP Baltar]

what happened with wanting to read rh9's post? (:

Drinking a red bull and going to do it right now

[RH9]

what happened with wanting to read rh9's post? (:

Drinking a red bull and going to do it right now

FYI, after realising that I had a confbias while writing it, Lukewarm is now Null and Pavowski is now a townlean.

[RH9]

Sorry for not clarifying earlier. Also, I grouped my nullreads together and put them above my three townleans. I also put implosion and numberQ above everybody else because they are in the same minigame as me.

[VP Baltar]

what happened with wanting to read rh9's post? (:

Drinking a red bull and going to do it right now

FYI, after realising that I had a confbias while writing it, Lukewarm is now Null and Pavowski is now a townlean.

I'll take that into account. Thanks

[VP Baltar]

lol, dawg, you can't have everyone as town or null and tell me to take that serious.

Any other read updates I should know about?

[VP Baltar]

I appreciate the fancy table though.

[VP Baltar]

79, 84, 178 could come from both scum and Town for similar reasons on why numberQ's advice in 288 is NAI. I agree with 129, especially the last sentence. 131 confuses me. I agree with 591, in that scum likely moved implosion because he was getting TRed a lot and scum moved him in order to let themselves win. This points to scum!Lukewarm because he was notably desperate in winning as seen in 125. I agree with 593. 594 feels like Town because he is trying to sort the people that are in his minigame. I think that it is a bit odd that implosion doesn't feel like Lukewarm is scum, though. 674 is so true. I vehemently disagree with 901 for making Lukewarm look like he has almost completely no chance of being scum. 904 is annoying me to pieces because why do you not consider that Lukewarm is scum who has Aristeia pocketed? 908 is so true, though. If I was scum, I would definitely considering bussing. Most of posts afterwards seems to be a meaningless argument with Aristeia. 1203 is a decent comeback.

I don't know how this analysis of implosion gets a "null" read when most of it is positive except implosion's assessment of Luke. Like, the words here seem like you're either assessing implo as town, or saying he is scum buddies with Luke...but there is no decision made at the end of it.

[VP Baltar]

numberQ 288 can be made from a Town trying to give advice or scum hiding a warning as Galron once did here in Mini 2250. I agree with 335, though this is NAI because scum can be agreeable too. I agree with his opinion of my predecessor in 530. However, I disagree with 531. I don't think that Pavowski is scum. However, the clarification in 551 makes me feel better. 687 seems like a good question but both Town and scum have the motivation to ask that.

Clicking through to these posts, I have a hard time seeing how much of this is AI...but that also seems to be the nature of NQ's mech talk. Null seems like a fair read here, but if I was in the game with NQ, I'd probably be trying harder to find his actual alignment.

[VP Baltar]

195 seems odd as though he's trying to please people and it feels fake. However, I have done that as Town before, making it NAI. 260 could be a clarification of a genuine mistake or a deliberate one intended as a reaction test. This is NAI. I find that for similar reasons on why numberQ's and implosion's advice is NAI, it applies to imaginality's 283 too. Most other posts seem NAI too. 691, 971, and 1248 feels like single-minded attack on VP Baltar. 1230 feels like he somehow changed his mind and

thus he realises that he's looking like we are scum together.

Haha wait what with the bolded?

RH9, can you explain whatever you're saying there?

[VP Baltar]

^that's imaginality

[VP Baltar]

Lukewarm 1032 felt off to me due to his astounding confidence on his reads. Seeing that implosion got moved and how much Lukewarm exhibited a desire to win in 125, it is obvious that Lukewarm is scum. He seems strangely into meta and theory. Examples of this include 29, 32, 34, 78, 101, 324, 484, 554 and 896.

I agree with implosion's questioning of the language around calling Luke scum here. That post does not seem astoundingly confident to me at all. I don't follow how the switch means Luke is definitely scum either. I think this was discussed.

Obv Luke has been downgraded in RH's scum rankings at this point, but this read seems to not add up.

[VP Baltar]

Pavowski As previously noted in 1086, 1060 feels like Pavowski is trying to do something which is something that I don't think that scum would do. This is because volunteering himself for a vote would appear LAMIST. I agree with a couple of his posts. Examples include 463, 467, 611, 614. Why is Pavowski the only one to get it?Why did my predecessor think so highly of Lukewarm? I agree with 50 149, and 150 from DArby. There is no way that Pavowski is scum.

This is a weird one, mostly because the reasoning used to arrive at Pav as a strongest townread in the game feels a bit flimsy to me? Again, this has been downgraded, but I'm just thinking about the initial thought process.

This is also the second time in this reads list where RH9 has talked about his "predecessor." That's something I never really do as town? But I'm not sold on this being Amished tell territory either.

I think regardless of alignment, RH9 has a very different approach to the game than me.

[VP Baltar]

Aristeia I like a lot of her posts. Examples include 100, 102 and 107. 108 makes me want to scream at my predecessor for placing Lukewarm on a pedestal instead of noticing the wisdom of Aristeia. 110 is so correct. 153 is a good idea. 290 is so sweet. 488. makes sense. 920 is so true. Anybody who disagrees is scum. 922 almost makes me think that I'm wrong on Lukewarm. Also, Aristeia, you remind me of marcistar and Morning Tweet.

More predecessor talk. More giving town reads for things that are NAI or questionable. For example, the 920 does not strike me as "so true." I could see that one either way, and I don't think implosion was wrong for saying that Ari is making promises that mean nothing until an action actually happens.

[VP Baltar]

VP Baltar Seems to ask questions a couple of times. Examples include 9, 147, 151, 161, 180, 186, 207, 221 and 387. 205 feels defensive. I don't get 217 and 395. I agree with 771. I like response to imaginality in 856. Scumreads in 859 makes sense. 864 shows good solving intent. 918 seems like he is wanting answers. 975 seems like he's gone and actually done research. Interactions with Aristeia, which include 979 and 981, feels like he is trying to work with her. 1209 seems like Town wanting to know things. I feel like 1243 and 1244 makes sense.

This still feels to me like maybe townreading me for the wrong reasons. Asking questions is NAI. Saying my scumreads make sense when your slot is in said scum reads and one of my others is Aristeia...who just got a glowing review and town read from RH9. It's all a bit jumbled and hard to understand the mindset, even when the read comes out correct on the other end.

[VP Baltar]

My overall assessment of RH9's reads are off the charts scummy...but almost so far it makes me wonder if he's town?

RH9, or anyone else who has played with RH9, I'd like to see a game or two you've completed as scum.

[VP Baltar]

RH9, why do you make so many remarks about how Toog appeared or acted in the thread before you got here?

[Tanner]

i wonder if the team is something dumb like pav/imaginality/numberq and i have been agonizing over this game for the last week for NOTHING

[Lukewarm]

If X then Y

If Ari flips red

Gate

-

Imaginality

Baltar

It is interesting here that I am ending with the exact opposite solve then I expected.

Ari has gone head to head with both, and frankly appears unconnected to either, but if she does flip red she has to be matched with one.

Interestingly, Ari was hard scum reading Baltar while she was advocating for the Keep to go first (1137). Which is the order that that could make sense as a scum play. Push him hard, get flipped red, hope that clears him. Compare that to imaginality, she pushed him hard and seems to be okay with imaginality flipping first.

The approach with Baltar would have had the potential to win both games. The approach with imaginality tanks one game to win the other. I don't really see the need for Scum!Ari to make that drastic switch when Gate->Keep likely won her the game with her prior approach.

Wall

-

Fuck if I know

for associative, but probably default to RH9 on his slot independently

Ari's inteactions across the wall have been less apparently unaligned.

Her numberQ read has been strangely consistent but shallow. 679 915 919
Her repeated accusations that Implo dies if I flip read mean nothing since I know I flip town. So an empty assosiative for scum ari 906.
Her toog read is kind of an inverse of numberq, consistent but not thought out, or at least expressed as fully, the way that her imaginality / baltar reads were thought out.

If Pav flips red

Gate

-

imaginality

,

Baltar

Ari's case on him is pretty compreling imo, and I was already slowly starting to shift to baltar being town before she ever mentioned it.

Imaginality seems weirdly unconcerned by the possibility of a scum!ari flip 1360 - "lets flip keep first, because it will help me win the gate!" Me flipping red would have helped him. Pav flipping read would have helped him. Ari flipping read would have tanked the game for him. I feel like he would have at least been worried about this scenario, but I don't see it anywhere?

Baltar on the other hand was aiming to flip first. This always loses the keep for scum!Pav, because ari is always voted in that scenario.

Wall

-

Implosion

- surprised me to btw - for associatives, still RH9 based on independent play.

In both options above (pav + imagin, or pav + baltar), I struggle to ever see Pav win the keep. But neither imaginality or baltar or pav seem particularly pressed, none of them are out here wildly trying to shake up the reads in the wall, or going hard on reads there to try and build strong false associatives.

I think that implosion is the only one at the keep that they could be sitting pretty comfortable thinking they had a shot to still win two games.

Where is the sudden change in strategy once RH9 swapped in, and feels like he is obvscum there, and that game is lost? Where is the pressure for numberQ (even just in the scum chat, but for us to feel the effects in the main thread) for him to really up his game while toog was gone? instead we got 1045, and Nothing

(This point on implosion assosiatives was not mentioned on the ari assositives, because Ari had a chance to win the Keep. )

[imaginality]

Just passing through. Won't be around much until this evening NZ time.

I do want to closely read RH9's reads post today. I only read his section on me last night, and it felt like he was townbinning me for the wrong reasons. I'm back at work today, but I'll update when I have time.

damn, and here i was about to hammer imaginality. i guess the hammer will have to wait after all ))):

Implo has been staunchly advocating for imaginality-scum, so I really don't see him being scum with Ari.

explain the connection to me?

Maybe you should just hammer our game now tbh. Because I don't see how else I can make you realise VP is scum. He played well especially D1, and I think was smart to lock in a 1v1 with someone he knew town read him day 1 - it meant I didn't object to the mingame and he knew I'd find it hard to retrospectively find reasons to call his D1 play scummy. It's no surprise you've found some of my points unconvincing, if it was easy to prove he's scum he wouldn't be in this mini game.

So you flipping our game first will at least show you you're wrong in time to let you recalibrate for the other games.

The one caveat I have is it's pretty clear he wants Gate flipped first so scum must be taking into account his flip in terms of how you'll read the other games. So I feel like it's walking into a trap to let them have it their way on that front.

[Lukewarm]

My day did not get better, but it did gain a migraine. My if x then y post is here as promised, but that is probably all I got for tonight

[Lukewarm]

Tanner, are there are things you still wanted to discuss with me / ari / pav ?

[Tanner]

i just realized i could be a complete fucking asshole and go "btw i'm not voting in my game until like an hour before final deadline lol glhf"

pedit: there probably are but right now head be empty

the way that question is phrased makes me think you want to vote? (just answer the q, don't actually do it)

[RH9]

My overall assessment of RH9's reads are off the charts scummy...but almost so far it makes me wonder if he's town?

RH9, or anyone else who has played with RH9, I'd like to see a game or two you've completed as scum.

I have played in Micro 1036, where I only won because GrandpaMo misread the setup and started a wagon on fellow Town.

[Lukewarm]

Yeah, I was thinking about voting.

Pretty sure that the Ari vote wins the keep, and not worth the effort it would take to sway the vote to me if it would win anyways. May be the migraine talking, but :shrug:

[VP Baltar]

Luke, why do you think imaginality wanted to give Ari the voting power in your game?