Thanks flow
I might tr Cakez for 1544. I'm not super familiar with Cakez scum meta, but I don't think he hops in to take a shot at me and dips out. It's sorta annoying, but maybe town. Cakez, can you elaborate on some of your reads (preferably who you read as town right now). Ik you said you mostly agree with Faker, but it would be helpful to hear your own thoughts.
I've become increasingly less sold on my Cakez townlean, pretty rote stuff to fake, but we will see. Going out of his way to tell me we matched rubbed me the wrong way as I served not as an adamant defender but a slight one in Warehouse 13. He might be hoping for the same here.
Might need to meta dive for the Pooky stuff for more recent stuff.
In post 1551, Prism wrote:I've become increasingly less sold on my Cakez townlean, pretty rote stuff to fake, but we will see. Going out of his way to tell me we matched rubbed me the wrong way as I served not as an adamant defender but a slight one in Warehouse 13. He might be hoping for the same here.
Might need to meta dive for the Pooky stuff for more recent stuff.
In post 1263, innocentvillager wrote:also faker's towniest post is his first post of the game that's probalby why im currently anchored to faker town
I hate that this comes in a reaction to me but yeah I'm slotting IV in the hard townbin. No reason to bring this up or revisit this at the time. Everyone ignoring my start was criminal and I think cat especially should know that while I can WIFOM that post 100% lines up with how I view scum & town respectively.
I don't fear qualitative play or players at all, I fear mechanical clears and PoE.
Andante probably town for the level of sporadic jumping around? But so quick to jump on anything and push it without a sense of continuity beyond a few posts. Sleepless probably town.
Cakez still scum beyond just tonal things but doing not a lot but being agreeable.
In post 1501, Faker wrote:-flow trap: I did not expect to ever get a real read on this slot but I think that interaction with me regarding my main was egregious.
Yeah I knew you would think that
Okay? You didn't really explain the discrepancy in not recognizing me as Prism. Did you just forget, was my guess that you just didn't think about the implications correct, what?
Contextually it seems like your vote came in reaction to this post of mine:
The hilarious part is that the reflective stepback has been a scum staple dating back to my first games on site in 2016
I can let skitter be wrong but you, LMAO
It's unclear to me why this is being overly concerned with my self-image. Two players townread me for something and I went out of my way to highlight it as a scum staple and correct them. It is also
very
difficult to spot the staple in the scumgames in question, which are from 2016/2017, unless you know in advance what you're looking for. It was unlikely to be found via normal meta review.
Okay, I caught up, jesus fucking christ. Really just skimmed the last few pages, outright skipped Datisi/skitter round 30, but we are DONE.
T->S as usual
Town: Andante
Probably town: innocentvillager
Townlean: Something_Smart, Datisi
Null (Going to be real other than NSG at the top and cat at the bottom this ordering is very loose): northsidegal, skitter, midwaybear, Sleepless Assassin, Pooky, catboi
Scumlean: Mare
Scum: SirCakez, flow trap
SirCakez is always fucking limbait but every single post I read from 40 on I thought was some combination of ingratiating or opportunistic and I wanted to flip him.
I have a few projects I want to work on later, not particularly important that I get to all of them but:
-Recent Cakez/Pooky interactions in other games
-midwaybear as a person+his recent responses to me that I was too tired to process
-Review Datisi/skitter independently, skitter had like one point that was okay but the rest was so NAI or +town imo. Part of me wants to try to toneread Datisi based off the reactions, because substantively they're rote softballs, but iuno
i reskimmed cakez's iso and don't rly remember why i thought he was towny
i think it was the bold calling of people scumfuckers having an aggressive tone
but it feels like he's mostly just been memeing since, which feels a little in contrast to how his iso reads like he's found the scum already
Cakez if u still have those same 4 people as scum (midway, pooky, mare, SS) why don't i really see you pushing them more? like how confident are you on those ppl
i reread page 44 and i have no clue lmfao. i think it was a mixture of thinking 1093 was like, really Tonally Town and thinking how i don't think scum!cakez would be going out on a limb here to attack pooky the way he is. the argument of "cakez got burned in c9++ for forgetting to fake paranoia so obviously if he drew red here he wouldn't forget it again" is nice, but i'm not sure if scum!cakez would actually be going straight for pooky like this - like it seems more natural to me to fake paranoia in a more lowkey way
this definitely is a read that i should revisit at some point because i kinda tuned cakez's posts out in the recent times but this was why i was townreading him at the time
I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”
having done a bit of meta diving my townread on andante has been strengthened and i now actually think that flow trap is probably town (despite having leaned towards him being scum after reading through the thread but before doing the meta dive).
i used to be of the opinion (and i suppose that i still am) that you should sort of keep some meta tells close to the chest so that you can re-use them later or people don't adapt to them, but i don't think that i play enough for this to still be relevant for me. plus, i probably need something to actually talk about anyways rather than just giving some boring reads and then dipping out.
one thing that stood out to me a lot was andante's very strong reaction not even to being voted, but to even the insinuation that she might not be town.
In post 709, Andante wrote:
Ummm I think my town games speak for themselves lol uhhh the games here... most games are things I've replaced into, but why iseveryone so concerned about scum!Andante?? I literally die tonight scum knows I'm a pr lol plus I've actually been doing stuff,
so we're not entertaining this andante!scum idea
I think that this sort of reaction is a little extreme, or at least is uncalled for given how "soft" my posts on the subject so far have been.
The literal very first words in my post that you quote there is "without even necessarily disagreeing with the townread". In other words, the questions that I'm asking skitter there are really more a probing of skitter herself rather than any sort of conversation specifically regarding you – if even
that small of a level
of tangentially questioning your alignment makes you uncomfortable, I'm not really sure what to say.
In post 712, Andante wrote:Ok, now I'm addressing that "you can't read andante the way you are" crap...
Unless you have some sort of solid "Andante in this game as scum did exactly this" I do not want to hear 1 more time... "you can't TR andante if you don't know her scum game"
Personally, I think my scum games are pretty good, I'm proud of them, however, just cause I'm not terrible scum, it doesn't mean we need to start tossing around "Well she's from EM" "look up meta!!" seriously. I am here to solve the game. and that is what I'd like to do. I'm not solving my alignment. If you want to dig through my games, have at it. Make sure it's actually over though.
But I do not want to hear 1 more post about how someone else isn't allowed to TR me cause they haven't read one of my scum games...
page 28 was angering me
.
like i said in that post, i felt like this was a surprising or extreme reaction in proportion to the posts that i had made, but i didn't immediately know how to interpret it: as some kind of scum sensitivity to her position as a consensus townread being questioned, or as a genuine example of this one meta trait that would indicate that she's town. having done a little bit of meta review, i think that it's more likely to be the latter. the "meta trait" is this (datisi might actually remember this one, i just now realized that i brought this up in that white flag game that i played horribly in) – certain people may tend not to get eliminated as town very often. often, the type of people who tend not to get eliminated as town are the ones who really dig their heels in and fight
a lot
when that becomes a possibility for them as town. sometimes you can tell that these kinds of players are scum because, when being pushed for elimination, they don't fight as hard as they typically do as town – i first learned about this tell when nachomamma used it in a bombshell case on myself actually, because i was getting pushed but didn't really seem to have a lot of heart in fighting it.
based on what i saw of andante's other games, my estimation is that the reaction that she had in this game to what i was saying is more likely to be an example of that sort of strong desire to not be eliminated as town than it is some kind of scum reaction. i guess i'm sort of wasting my breath here anyways because nobody really seems to disagree that she's town?? i don't know, i just actually like this tell a lot, it's fun to talk about and i'm now the mafia equivalent of an old person who just wants to tell people stories from their past so just let me have this
as for flow trap i'll try to be a bit less wordy and just get to the point (and also i guess keep the amount i say proportional to my degree of confidence?), it seems like he has more fun as town and is more serious as scum and this game seems to match the former rather than the latter.
i agree with the logic that SS as scum would be trying more to look towny and it matches my memory of playing against (and losing against) him as scum, but at the same time it feels bad to actually put someone down as town based on that reasoning. so i guess i can just continue putting the problem of reading him off
{nsg}
{andante, flow}
{IV, mare, SS}
{skitter, cakez, SA, pooky, faker, datisi} - null
{midway}
i predict that i will probably scumread sleepless assassin after he makes his big post. really don't know how to feel about datisi – i see all of the things that people are prodding him over and i see his responses and and i understand his responses completely and despite maybe seeming unlikely on the surface i feel like i relate to how all of them could be genuine... but i don't know if that makes him town or just means that the things people are pushing him for aren't actually scummy. in other words, i don't really read his posts as towny, but none of the reasons people seem to be giving or talking about for him being scum really resonate with me.
midway still seems scummy but i'm unsatisfied voting there with such a large null pool to sort.
gosh, all i want to do in mafia games is bring up and talk about older mafia games. maybe that means i should play more so i have games that aren't all like two or three years old to be referencing.
Yeah I knew you would think that
